which plate?

[GTXJackBauer]

I am not arguing if there would be the same in flow. As I said you could setup the pump to differentiate the difference between each size/restriction configurations. The point I was trying to make I believe ATM touched. My than question would be if the channels were thicker in the radiator/blocks as ATM stated, wouldn't the 1/2 benefit more than say the smaller diameter? But than again I am shooting myself in the foot because if the flows stay the same than the cooling will be the same. So for my pointless argument to stay valid the thicker tubing would need a more powerful pump then the lesser.

Forget what I posted. I was in dire need of sleep and am all refreshed now.

 

[EarthDog]

Perhaps slightly. I have never heard anyone (in the know) say to make sure you run your pump faster with 3/8 vs 1/2 inch. It, like to temp and flow differences, are negligible it seems. Unless perhaps you have a pump with little head and pushing through a loop is already a struggle at 1/2"??

3/8 on up is fine.

 

[GTXJackBauer]

You'd run your pump say @ 2500 RPM on 1/2 and say 2000 RPM on 3/8 all to keep a 1.5 GPM flow rate I would think all while being the exact same loops (parts used and length of the loop). Again, my main reasoning before was saying that if you use a 1/2 you might get better cooling but that's if the remaining parts in the loop are optimized for a 1/2 tubing. That wouldn't make sense than as manufacturers wouldn't do that unless they create it as a standard.

 

[EarthDog]

It's not even worth as many posts as we have done already. Way too granular thinking for literally less than 1c worth of difference. A bad mount or paste application will eradicate that nearly negligible gain tubing sizes gives.

You don't have to adjust the pump I wouldn't imagine. Again differences are SMALL.

On a personal note, 1/2 looks like a garden hose to me, lol!

 

[GTXJackBauer]

Well to finish it up, that was my point. My questions originally was would there be a difference. I figured it'd be small and you agree with me. That was my point but I wanted to see what others thought.

I love 1/2 tubing. For small builds, I'd go with the tubing that looks best in a micro case builds.

THE END!

#TeamJackBauer - 1
#TeamEarth - 1/2

Anyhoooo, back to you OP! Hope you had a good laugh.

Edit: + 1 point to #TeamEarth

 

[EarthDog]

This isn't a competition . It's about getting facts out. You brought it up in theory(or at least not certain what you were thinking was true), and with my help (and wagex), we did that.

 

[caddi daddi]

well , I got it all in, tried it all with 1/2 tube, the tube in the case just looked like crap so i re plumbed it with 3/8 and it fits and looks better, the point is rather moot at the moment as my new kit will not boot.
The thing starts to post, I see "asrock" in white on a black background for a trillionth of a second then reboots (no post beeps),and repeats endlessly, I'll get it worked out and report back, I worked on this issue till late lastnight and have gotten nowhere.

 

[tungureanu]

well , I got it all in, tried it all with 1/2 tube, the tube in the case just looked like crap so i re plumbed it with 3/8 and it fits and looks better, the point is rather moot at the moment as my new kit will not boot.
The thing starts to post, I see "asrock" in white on a black background for a trillionth of a second then reboots (no post beeps),and repeats endlessly, I'll get it worked out and report back, I worked on this issue till late lastnight and have gotten nowhere.

put them evahclear bottle down and check some pins

 

[RnRollie]

all nice, yet i say that 3/8 is a LOT more restrictive compared to 1/2 and should be avoided in very long loops with lotsa 90° elbows


http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/major-loss-ducts-tubes-d_459.html
http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/pressure-loss-copper-pipes-d_930.html
http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/hazen-williams-water-d_797.html

fortunately, the loop lenght rarely exceeds 10 ft

 

[EarthDog]

Those are some interesting links! Thanks!

Isn't that is pressure loss due to friction of copper though? Not sure how applicable that is to tygon type tubing considering we have no idea what its friction rate is...and again, that is pressure loss also, not flow rate. One can still have the same flow rate with less PSI, and flow rate was the talking point (or am I missing something in those links?).

Though this is more 'scientific', I still prefer to hang my hat on testing that was done with a PC water cooling loop with tygon type tubing and not copper.

 

[ATMINSIDE]

all nice, yet i say that 3/8 is a LOT more restrictive compared to 1/2 and should be avoided in very long loops with lotsa 90° elbows


http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/major-loss-ducts-tubes-d_459.html
http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/pressure-loss-copper-pipes-d_930.html
http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/hazen-williams-water-d_797.html

fortunately, the loop lenght rarely exceeds 10 ft

First, copper and PVC tubing aren't remotely the same.
Second, a single 90° adapter will make more difference in pressure drop than 10ft of tubing.
Thirdly, major losses in tubes are a non-issue for our setups as we are in the turbulent flow range with a smooth walled pipe.

 

[RnRollie]

should have a look under a microscope at copper, pvc & tygon walls... its not as smooth as you think

and while pressure drop & flow are not the same... have enough pressure "drop" (actually increase) and your flow goes out the window

then again, in the small loops used, it is not that important, but it doesn't mean that the laws of fluid dynamics & physics should be completely ignored - Mr Bernoulli & Mr Scott would not be happy about that

Then again, fluid dynamics alone can make you sit on the internet the rest of your live http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fluid_dynamics

 

[EarthDog]

Nobody is saying its like a baby's rear end smooth. Just saying that its not copper and different. Nobody is saying to ignore them, just that the links you posted really do not show us anything with our 'tygon' type of PVC tubing (its different than hardwalled PVC) we use.

Others (Skinee and Martin) tested this and came up with different conclusions... I'll stick with testing on the actual medium than trying to extrapolate information from unlike testing.

 

[RnRollie]

dont throw Martin at me without including a link
as far as i recall he said something amongst the lines of "it doesn't matter that much in small/short loops" I can't recall him or skinnee testing TUBING. But i may have overlooked that somewhere.

Anyway, i sometimes DO feel we've oversimplified and thrown overboard some of the fundamentals. Otherwise we wouldn't have people building loops that consist entirely out of QDCs & 3/8 90° elbows and then complain their pump is noisy

But hey, i'm a grumpy old man who thinks that people should pass a qualifying test before even be allowed to touch a keyboard and that everybody under the age of 21 should be flogged twice daily.

 

[ATMINSIDE]

should have a look under a microscope at copper, pvc & tygon walls... its not as smooth as you think

and while pressure drop & flow are not the same... have enough pressure "drop" (actually increase) and your flow goes out the window

then again, in the small loops used, it is not that important, but it doesn't mean that the laws of fluid dynamics & physics should be completely ignored - Mr Bernoulli & Mr Scott would not be happy about that

Then again, fluid dynamics alone can make you sit on the internet the rest of your live http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fluid_dynamics

I've polished copper to a 5 micron surface finish with the help of a microscope, I'm well aware that it isn't smooth.
My point is that PVC is much smoother than copper tubing.

No, the aren't the same. But the TUBING won't cause enough of a drop in our loops to matter, as ONE FITTING will cause more of a drop than all our tubing.

I'm not saying to ignore them, I'm saying to use some common sense. See above statement as to the common sense of pressure drop for us.

I don't need to, I got an A in Fluid Dynamics and a subsequent B in Thermal Fluid Design.
Currently I size valves for specialty applications. Trust me, I know fluids from both theoretical and practical standpoints.

 

[EarthDog]

dont throw Martin at me without including a link
as far as i recall he said something amongst the lines of "it doesn't matter that much in small/short loops" I can't recall him or skinnee testing TUBING. But i may have overlooked that somewhere.

Anyway, i sometimes DO feel we've oversimplified and thrown overboard some of the fundamentals. Otherwise we wouldn't have people building loops that consist entirely out of QDCs & 3/8 90° elbows and then complain their pump is noisy

But hey, i'm a grumpy old man who thinks that people should pass a qualifying test before even be allowed to touch a keyboard and that everybody under the age of 21 should be flogged twice daily.

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?147767-The-impact-of-tubing-sizes

The Impact of Tubing Size

There have been countless discussions on whether 3/8"ID (9.5mm) tubing is more restrictive than 1/2"ID (13mm) tubing. While technically you would immediately see the smaller diameter and assume it would create a significant drop in flow due smaller diameter restricting flow. Not so. While there are some very, very minor differences in flow as they are calculated, there is very little difference in flow rates and therefore little impact on your Delta and temps. Tubing smaller than 3/8"ID (9.5mm) does tend to cause more restriction than benefit, but those tubing sizes are rarely used on custom loops...

...6.35mm quick fit = 34.21C
8mm barbed = 34.08C
8mm quick fit = 33.91C
9.6mm barbed = 33.89C
9.6mm quick fit = 33.80C
11.1mm barbed = 33.79C
12.7mm barbed = 33.77C

So there we have it. The differences between varying tubing sizes.

Okay, the more astute of you will point out that the block C/W is really the case-to-block C/W, and that the actual CPU-die-to-block C/W is a lot higher. Even if we triple block the C/W (which would be an absolute upper limit based upon older research), we get:

6.35mm quick fit = 50.11C
8mm barbed = 49.74C
8mm quick fit = 49.31
9.6mm barbed = 49.25C
9.6mm quick fit = 49.04C
11.1mm barbed = 49.01C
12.7mm barbed = 49.00C

I'll leave it to everyone's own personal value based judgement to determine the relative importance of the differences seen....

It's certainly not the 5C figure that people bandy about. I never expected that it ever would be myself. In my own testing with arbitrarily choking the flow-rate in a test-system, I've always been amazed at the low flow resilience of many setups. Below 2LPM is where things start getting pear shaped quickly for most systems. My recommendation is that even if you're a low-flow fanatic, always ensure that your flow-rates are above 2LPM at the very least, and preferably above 3LPM if at all possible. Still, even when given 1/4" tubing installed with quick-fits and a decent pump like a DDC2, we can see that flow-rates in excess of 4LPM aren't a problem.

Not skinee/martin, but here is something to read...notice the 1C AT MOST difference there?

EDIT: That link was posted in post #19 already actually... but that should do it...

 

[RnRollie]

ah, the legendary Cathar

I never said anything about temp difference ... i know that it plays a very minor role

Its about the big picture... if you use smaller ID tubing/hose/pipe/wormhole like 3/8 (or god forbid 1/4) compared to 1/2, you will ALSO use smaller ID fittings & elbows and it will all start adding up -especially in "big" loops- maybe even upto to the point a jetplate doesn't perform as intended, or choking a pump and dropping way below 1GPM and then standing around scratching hair and wondering "huh, what happens?"

I'm not trying to lecture anybody -especially not the "oldtimers" , but i dont mind some bristling to keep everybody awake

 

[EarthDog]

Me either... just trying to make sure something isn't made from nothing.

 

[caddi daddi]

I'm all in for discussion ,it's all good info, but what I have found that with this setup, mo-ra 180X4 rad, ek supremecy block, swiftech mcp 35x pump with big box store tube, that 3/8 or 1/2 tube it's pretty much the same, the jet plate that works the best....... J2 by just a little over J1 and J3 with the big slot does just about nothing.
I have swaped plates and tube and barbs and thats about as good as it's gonna get.

 

[caddi daddi]

and earth dog, I am sorry your stuck in maryland, i was at nswc, dahlgren VA. where 301 crosses the pot-o-mac into maryland, I still detest that place.