Why not change the SSID and turnoff the broadcast of it? If they still manage to connect to the network then you may want to look into it further, ie ban their MAC address and use WEP. If they don't connect any more chances are they probably didn't even realize that their laptop, pda, or whatever was even connecting in the first place.
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Wireless Intruder
- Thread starter G-PHoRCe
- Start date
- Joined
- Aug 25, 2001
- Location
- Ontario, Canada
You are saying that anyone using a private network has no privacy rights by default.SevenSixTwo said:
I'm saying that by default you have a right your privacy, and that cannot be changed without your approval.
The stances are mutually exclusive, and I don't think we're going to sway eachother's beliefs at this rate
- Joined
- Nov 13, 2002
- Location
- not here anymore thats for sure
Your theory is correct for indiscriminate network eavesdropping, the employee would have to be notified in that case, but there are dozens of holes in the law. One of them is monitoring the network for performance, and if someone interferes with the "business" processes their data can be analyzed without any consent, and courts will always side with you. And when you have an unauthorized user on your network, throw that all away, they truly have no rights.
In New York if you find someone who logged into your wireless router you can beat them with a wooden baseball bat, and an aluminum one if they sign a consent form
In New York if you find someone who logged into your wireless router you can beat them with a wooden baseball bat, and an aluminum one if they sign a consent form
- Joined
- Aug 25, 2001
- Location
- Ontario, Canada
Okay, you made me go and look it up. Because I'm busy right now, so I only have this reference, but it's references look good:
http://www.honeynet.org/book/Chp8.pdf
Page 2: "Just because you own and are responsible for a network does not mean you have unfettered legal authority to monitor users of the network"
Two laws that affect this: Wiretap Act and the Pen Register, Trap and Traces Devices Statute.
Wiretap Act:
Page 4: "Generally forbids the interception of the content of communications (including electronic communications)"
"Sniffing traffic on a network may be considered an interception"
Page 5: "As a constitutional matter, an intruder has no reasonable expectation of privacy while in your network. This does not mean, however, that monitoring is allowed"
Pen Register, Trap and Traces Devices Statute:
Basically covers capturing of the non-content information, like what IPs they are talking to, etc.
Of course, all of this becomes nice and legal if the user to be monitored signs off on it.
http://www.honeynet.org/book/Chp8.pdf
Page 2: "Just because you own and are responsible for a network does not mean you have unfettered legal authority to monitor users of the network"
Two laws that affect this: Wiretap Act and the Pen Register, Trap and Traces Devices Statute.
Wiretap Act:
Page 4: "Generally forbids the interception of the content of communications (including electronic communications)"
"Sniffing traffic on a network may be considered an interception"
Page 5: "As a constitutional matter, an intruder has no reasonable expectation of privacy while in your network. This does not mean, however, that monitoring is allowed"
Pen Register, Trap and Traces Devices Statute:
Basically covers capturing of the non-content information, like what IPs they are talking to, etc.
Of course, all of this becomes nice and legal if the user to be monitored signs off on it.
- Joined
- Nov 13, 2002
- Location
- not here anymore thats for sure
That webpage is not something I would call a credible source, no name website no name author. And it still goes against what you are saying. The quote above is from that source, page 3. Note the bold.
This article deals with the extreme of eavesdropping, that is entrapment(illegal for gov. as you read above, especially with narcotics arrests). What they call a honeynet is more often called a blackhole and very common inside private business networks and is an entrapment device. A blackhole is a detection system, that is no one’s business. Scan the network or do anything else funny like that and you are logged. Classical example of entrapment, interception/eavesdropping, and releasing the collected data to 3rd parties (human resources dpt./police dpt.) Do you think blackholes are mentioned in the network usage agreements?
- Joined
- Aug 25, 2001
- Location
- Ontario, Canada
Aah, you are right about that ammendment, I missed that it only applies to governments.
The Wiretap act still applies though. Especially for someone hosting or unknowingly hosting an open network.. in some views, an open network can be seen as an invitation to use it (similar to what G-PHoRCe wants, he just wants to know who's using it).
The article, in fact, is written by the Honeynet Project themselves. These people have a product that is used to detect intruders, viruses and worms in a medium to large organization. By doing this, they need to be aware of all the legalities. It is not necessarily used for entrapment (in fact, I've seen very few cases). In most cases, it is used as a tool to discover compromised servers that would otherwise go unnoticed.
What I quoted is very credible, it was from their book:
http://www.honeynet.org/book/
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0321166469/ref=nosim/thehoneynet0c-20/002-0262502-2744015
Not to mention the foot notes on each page with references..
The Wiretap act still applies though. Especially for someone hosting or unknowingly hosting an open network.. in some views, an open network can be seen as an invitation to use it (similar to what G-PHoRCe wants, he just wants to know who's using it).
The article, in fact, is written by the Honeynet Project themselves. These people have a product that is used to detect intruders, viruses and worms in a medium to large organization. By doing this, they need to be aware of all the legalities. It is not necessarily used for entrapment (in fact, I've seen very few cases). In most cases, it is used as a tool to discover compromised servers that would otherwise go unnoticed.
What I quoted is very credible, it was from their book:
http://www.honeynet.org/book/
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0321166469/ref=nosim/thehoneynet0c-20/002-0262502-2744015
Not to mention the foot notes on each page with references..
OP
- Joined
- Aug 15, 2001
- Location
- Harlem, New York
- Thread Starter
- #27
i've closed it since yesterday because you are all seriously freaking me out... i've tried to be a nice guy letting the connection open but from what su root is saying, i can't even track the intruder... so i'll just do the easy thing and locked my mac adresses in the router so only my computer will be able to go on network.
anyway thanks for the help.
anyway thanks for the help.
- Joined
- Aug 25, 2001
- Location
- Ontario, Canada
It's not as bad as we're making it out to be... the legalities of it are very weird.. computers really screw with privacy, and wireless adds a another monkey wrench.
I'm sure no-one will sue you for tracking them down and saying, "hey, I see you are using my wireless network, like it? feel free to use it in moderation"
I'm sure no-one will sue you for tracking them down and saying, "hey, I see you are using my wireless network, like it? feel free to use it in moderation"
- Joined
- Dec 27, 2003
- Location
- Fort Wayne , In
Well you may find out whos been snoopin on your network, its gonna be the guy yelling that his internet doesnt work anymore lol.
- Joined
- Nov 13, 2002
- Location
- not here anymore thats for sure
MAC spoofing is 1 on the difficulty scale. Keep an eye on it. Maybe the guy knows a thing or two
- Joined
- Nov 27, 2002
- Location
- new jersey
hmmm, jw, how would u even know if u packet sniffed? 'n what if you just packet sniffed in general, because it is ur network and you just wanted to watch for spyware per say, and "happened" to pick up his packets, because I mean you "don't" know he's on the network?
I don't see how a judge could rule against you...
anyway, other question is where does this stop/start? can I run a packet sniffing proggy on my comp when I'm on my school's network? if not than who can?
I don't see how a judge could rule against you...
anyway, other question is where does this stop/start? can I run a packet sniffing proggy on my comp when I'm on my school's network? if not than who can?
G-PHoRCe said:
LOL, that's what you should've done in the first place!
Its your connection, and leaving things open like that is simply inviting trouble you don't need. When it comes to network security, thinking just a little paranoid early on could save you in the long run.
- Joined
- Apr 21, 2001
- Location
- Augusta Twp, MI
If someone gains access to your network, you are the one with ownership on that network. That person has illegally gained access to your network- and you are within your rights to investigate the activities that are going on within your network.
But I'm going with the idea that it's probably just someone with a wireless card that probably doesn't know they are connected. I would sniff out what that person is doing. If he/she is innocent- and you feel like being a nice guy, then let them have access. If they are hacking and using your connection for illegal purposes, get rid of him.
But I'm going with the idea that it's probably just someone with a wireless card that probably doesn't know they are connected. I would sniff out what that person is doing. If he/she is innocent- and you feel like being a nice guy, then let them have access. If they are hacking and using your connection for illegal purposes, get rid of him.
- Joined
- Jul 7, 2002
- Location
- Sandy Creek NY
I can recommend airsnare....you set it up with a list of Friendly mac addresses and when a mac address not on your list pops up, it sends you an alert, it also has the option of sending the unfriendly mac address a text message
- Joined
- Dec 10, 2002
- Location
- San Antonio, TX
yah, I was just about to say use airsnare... they showed this program on the Screen Savers a few months ago and allows you to do all sorts of stuff across a wireless network.
You can download it from this site
I will say I've used it in my apartments and it is quite amusing. There are also other programs I use which allow me to do ever more amusing things that are on the gray border of legality so I won't recommend those to you here.
You can download it from this site
I will say I've used it in my apartments and it is quite amusing. There are also other programs I use which allow me to do ever more amusing things that are on the gray border of legality so I won't recommend those to you here.
OP
- Joined
- Aug 15, 2001
- Location
- Harlem, New York
- Thread Starter
- #36
stmok said:LOL, that's what you should've done in the first place!
Its your connection, and leaving things open like that is simply inviting trouble you don't need. When it comes to network security, thinking just a little paranoid early on could save you in the long run.
you know this was the last thing i wanted to do because i do not make a lot of downloads whithin my network, nobody is using kazza or such thing. the only thing that i say we download are driver and updates. i wouldn't mind sharing this network with more user since i have an high speed connection and i know that i don't use all the bandwith. but oh well, i've closed it and when i look at the router log (when i leave only one of my computers on) i can clearly see that i'm the only one using the connectio.
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