Yet another uber-noob seeks bargain basement GFx card for AGP->PCIe switch

[[EJ]]

Hi all,
I'm a bit of a newbie here so please excuse any howlers, I hope I'm at least in the right section to start with!?!

I'm currently researching an upgrade of Mobo/CPU/Ram/GFx.
I'm trying to keep the cost down, while trying to spend a reasonable amount on the Mobo to keep it stable & allow overclocking of a ~£65 CPU.
The Planned Upgrade is so far:
Gigabyte GA-EP35-DS3L, ToBeOCed Intel E5200, 2GB Ram (800MHz)
Already got: Seasonic 600W PSU & Antec P180 case, both bought to make it total silent (and futureproofed ready for this upgrade!)
I'll post separately in the relevant forum to check about the above planned bits, altho are there any major problems with GFx card/Mobo compatibility problems I should avoid?

My Old (current) Rig is:
P4 2.66GHz, 512MB Ram, Intel 865PE Mobo, and an
"OwnBrandEvesham" Radeon 9200 256MB [I think it says SE on it, which is probably the bogbasic one]
The Radeon's overclocked to 300/219 with AtiTool when running CS. [Res of the time runs at stock 200/166]

Worst case usage is Counterstrike:Source, which currently runs at ~30fps, somtimes dipping to a jerky 25, with lowish settings, run windowed at 1152x864.
I also use Gimp2 quite a lot, altho I would've thought the speed of that is determined more by CPU & Ram than GFx? Also sometimes video encoding muxing etc but again that's probably more CPU/Ram?

So my aim would be to have CS:S never jerky at 1280x1024. [Doesn't have to be 100% texture quality etc, just middle of the road quality's fine, as long as fps doesn't drop below ~35min]
I'm not likely to start gaming with any more recent games, I'm not a massive gamer, but do like to play CS every now and then.

There are some absolute bog-basic cards i've found such as:
£25 "OwnBrand" GF 8400 GS 256MB PCIe
Or others from the basic end shown in the following lists at:
Novatech / eBuyer / Dabs
[or elsewhere if they're trustworthy for Uk purchases]

What sort of speed would this give compared to my current setup? I know it's probably not going to be as good as one of the x600/x800 Geforces, but I'd rather just get a cheap one now which'll run CS:S reasonably well, then upgrade in the future if I start doing more gaming etc.
This would be more a switch to cater for the new PCIe mobo, and not really and upgrade as such.

Most threads I've found from tonight/this morning's hours of google trawling for budget card reccomendations are in the ~£50-£75 range minimum, and for much more intensive gaming. I'm looking the ~£25 or less, or really, however-cheap-i-can-get that will still run CS:S okay, and nothing newer or more intensive!

If this sounds like a completely crazy idea, and I should just stop being a sissy and spend more, please tell me! Will a better GFx card help considerably with stuff like Gimp and general running of the OS? I also wonder if even the absolute cheapo rubbish these days will be than my ancient Radeon??
BTW, I'll also be Definitely not upgrading to Vista so don't need much GFx for just desktop rendering with XP.

I'm completely lost in the GFx card world, it seems altogether more baffling than the CPU/Mobo lineup, especially with Ati vs NVidia, each with their generations, each with different ranges, each with different ram, each with different board makers etc etc etc....

Is the speed determined mainly by the chipset or is it largely affected by the rest (ram/manuf etc?)

Thanks very much for reading this far, any feedback would be greatly appreciated, even if it's just "get of our forums you noob"!
Thx, EJ

 

[Cuiiey]

firstly and get out of our forums you noob LOL. In all seriousness you new rigg is going to hammer you old one into the ground. Running xp with 512mb is like running vista with 1gb or ram, not good. Not to sure about the exchange rate but seriously save up and get a better card than a 8400gs. If you really want to get bargain then get like a 9500gt or 9400gt

 

[[EJ]]

Hi again,
Thanks for the advice, had another web-trawl looking for cheap one in that range.
I was about the say how about a 8500GT instead, but realised there really isn't much point in me scrimping to save £15 when i'm upgrading the rest of my pc, so thanks for the nudge!

Which of these sounds best, or will there be practically no difference at all and should I just go for convenient ordering??

INN03D GF 9500GT 512MB PCIE DVI
XFX 9500GT 512MB DDR2 VGA DVI HDTV Out PCI-E
Zotac GeForce 9500GT 512MB DDR2 / PCI Express 2.0

They look to have the same core/mem speeds and all PCIe x16, so I'm guessing there's not much in it? Or are there any other board makers I should look for?

Thanks again,
EJ

 

[Cuiiey]

All of the 9500GT's are practically the same and that GDDR2 memory wont do you wonders I know that i suggested the 9500/9400GT as good bargain cards, if all you can find are GDDR2 mem ones then dont get them. if you can somehow stretch another couple of dollars i would reconmend the 9600GSO. When overclocked its the same as a 9600gt which is a fairly decent card. 9600GSO can be found on hereon newegg. they are all fairly cheap at around 80USD which i think is around 40ishUK. Anyways best of luck with your choice

 

[A1Killer]

What are you going to use your computer for? Thats the main question you should look at. For gaming id suggest any card that has no less then 512mb of ram on board and nothing less of 256bit for the traffic your card will be handleing for games and videos. the higher you can push your budget for the computer the better off you will be on future proofing your computer.

 

[[EJ]]

Thanks for the updates.
I can find a reasonable 9600GSO 512MB DDR3 for about £65.
My problem with spending more is that I'm not a heavy gamer, only using CS:S and probably won't get any newer PC games. I'm reluctant to slowly edge upward in £10/20 intervals; I've already done that with CPU & Mobo! (and prob will with Ram too!!)
I can justify those more as that'll give overall performance increase in everything I do, whereas gfx will only really affect gaming probably.

I think I'll probably go for one of those 9500GT cards, altho I'll see what the rest of my planned upgrade turns out costing, if i get a bargain on the rest I might treat myself!

Thanks again for the advice,
EJ

 

[Cuiiey]

No worries, a 9500gt will suit you fine but id advise you to get the GDDR3 version if they have it and not the cheaper GDDR2 version. IT will give you somewhat of more futureproffing

 

[[EJ]]

I'll see if i can find a DDR3 one, altho I think they're almost the same cash as the 9600GSO DDR3 so would just go for that one if i spend that much.
Also, would any of these work fine with any Mobo i should choose? There aren't any known weird things that happen with some combinations as there are for ram?
Thanks for the advice,
EJ

 

[Cuiiey]

IF they are almost same cash as 9600GSO then deffinately get that as when you overclock same as 9600gt practically give to take a couple of frames. My firends got your motherboard and his 4850 is running fine so your 9600gso/9500gt should work fine

 

[tachi1247]

9500gt should be a decent card for what you are doing. check out this site to help make your decision. these games are probably all newer than what you're running so it should give you a good idea on performance vs. cost. BTW, a 9600gso is the exact same thing as an 8800gs just rebadged.

http://www.guru3d.com/category/vga_charts_3dmark_vantage_06/

http://www.guru3d.com/category/vga_charts_fear_pc/

also, you can keep getting a little more performance for every extra $20 you spend until you hit $180 so don't get sucked into buying more card than you need.

 

[[EJ]]

Thanks for the info.
Fear at 1600x1200 35fps is plenty for me, I've only got 1280x1024 anyway so should be sorted.
Thanks,
EJ

 

[Cuiiey]

No worrys, LOL i also game at 1280 x 1024 and i can hit 400fps on CoD4 FTW

 

[[EJ]]

Sounds pretty good... I'm sure you can't see the difference above ~30 surely, but it makes for decent futureproofing!

 

[Cuiiey]

True True, actually you sort of can but you wouldn't really know about over 30 frames with your radeon 9200 would you?? LOL jks jks. when you game at like a couple of fps, and then go back to 30fps it actually seems alot more jittery and less smooth

 

[[EJ]]

you wouldn't really know about over 30 frames with your radeon 9200 would you?? LOL

I'll have you know that i can get way over 30... at 800x600 at least... but then the damn enemies are too small to see!

Actually when it's overclocked (the radeon [from 200/166 to 300/219]) it manages to do ~30-35ish, but it's the dips which are the problem (downto ~20-25), which I've realised is probably not helped by the cpu processing rqd for the source engine. Today did the steam video stress test which averages 45fps. I also overclocked my P4 for the first time in the last few days [to practice overclocking before trying it on a my pending upgrade] which gave me a few more fps ingame I think, altho still dips down sometimes!

Will have to get my new rig setup pronto!
Thanks again all for the info.
EJ

 

[Rick James]

Avoid the 9500. Get the 9600

 

[[EJ]]

I'm steering towards the Inno3D 8600GT 256MB GDDR3, simply because it'll be easily enough for my purposes and is only £40. This review shows ~90 fps in CS:S at 1600x1200 with max settings, so should be good for 1280!
EJ

But I'm also thinking of waiting before getting it and the new rig. My current one isn't slow enough to warrant a costly upgrade, so I'm gonna wait for the new i7 architecture to get a bit more mainstream which should push S775 prices down a bit maybe??

 

[wingman99]

Get your self a used HD 3850 AGP, I have one on a old P4 3.2 and i can play all the new games on high just fine like Crysis, Cod4, UT3 direct comparison is my E8400 and 8800 GT.

 

[Alastayr]

Look at this baby:
HD4670

I used pricerunner UK to check what's available on the island, and that was basically the one big deal.
The card is all you need, ever. True, its a bit pricey, but that'll get you newest tech and all that stuff. Hardware decoding, low power usage, silence and effective cooling...
But maybe look where you can get it cheaper.

You can't go wrong with this baby. It'll be able to handle Crysis!

OR get yourself a used 3850! Check eBay, they should be going for about 50GBP. Or get yourself an even older card, like the X1950 XT. You won't have DX10 support and snappy Video Decoding, but they still smoke a lot of the low end cards (9500GT, 3650, 4550, 8600GT...). And you can find them for under 30GBP if you're lucky.

By the way, what kind of price engine can you use in the UK? Pricerunner sucks somewhat.

 

[[EJ]]

Thanks for the info,
That's probably bit more than I was looking to spend but would think about it if i decide to start gaming some more. CS:S is enough for me at the moment! The main reason for PC upgrade is general performance for image editing etc, rather than for hardcore gaming, at the moment anyway.

As for price engine, I'm not at the cardholder's address (at uni) so only looking at dabs ebuyer & LambdaTek who i've bought from before. One of them normally has a pretty low price. Other than that to get a general idea I use google shopping.