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DVD Recorders

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UnseenMenace

UnseenModerator
Joined
Apr 23, 2001
Full Article - Overclockers.com

From The Article "DVD Recorders" - Ed Stroligo - 11/16/03

DVD recorders have gotten cheap. Is it the right time for you to buy?

A few cautionary notes:

They're Going To Get Faster Fairly Soon

Right now, the affordable DVD recorders allow you to record DVD+R or DVD-R disks at 4X speed. That means you could record 4.7Gb of data using either format in about fifteen minutes.

The next generation of recorders coming out now allow you to record DVD+R at 8X speed (DVD-R remains at 4X). That means the time for a DVD+R recording would drop to around eight and a half minutes.

No, 8X is not twice as fast as 4X, just like a CD recorder 48X is not twice as fast as a 24X. An 8X recorder is called an 8X recorder because it will get up to 8X while recording, but it starts at a lower speed.

Pioneer announced the other day that its next recorder should be able to record both DVD+R and DVD-R media at 8X speed (the 8X DVD-R standard hasn't been quite set yet).

As 2004 progresses, 12X DVD+R recorders ought to become available. Phillips recently demonstrated a proof-of-concept 16X DVD+R recording.

By the way, a CD recorder 1X and a DVD recorder 1X are not at all the same thing. For CDs, 1X equals 150Kb/sec, while for a DVD, it equal 1.35Mb/sec. Thus, a DVD "X" is worth about 9 CD "Xs". That means an 8X DVD recorder would record DVDs at a speed equivalent to a 72X CD-ROM, so it's not like you can expect a 52X DVD recorder real soon.

Going from 4X to 8X will be the last jump that will save users an appreciable amount of time per recording. An 8X recorder could save you about six minutes over a 4X recorder, while a 12X recorder might save you more like two.

NOTE This Information Is Edited :- Reading The Full Article Is Recomended

1) Do you currently own a DVD Recorder if so is it DVD-R, DVD+R or another format ?
2) Are you happy with your current DVD Recorder ?
3) Are you currently considering buying a DVD Recorder ?
4) Does the information contained in this article change your thoughts on the buying a DVD Recorder... if so why
 
UnseenMenace said:

1) Do you currently own a DVD Recorder if so is it DVD-R, DVD+R or another format ?
2) Are you happy with your current DVD Recorder ?
3) Are you currently considering buying a DVD Recorder ?
4) Does the information contained in this article change your thoughts on the buying a DVD Recorder... if so why

1) no

2) n/a

3) Yes, I am. In fact I'm stoked about the prices that are supposedly going to be offered on Black Friday (the day after Thanksgiving). One of the office stores is reported to be selling a Lite on dual format 4x for $90 after rebate, and Best Buy is supposedly going to have a deal where it's $80 after rebate (this one may involve a gift card though).

4) Not particularly. I'm more likely to buy towards the end of a product cycle than the beginning. So if I were to wait for 8x burners to get to a price point, I'd be waiting a really long time. The compatibility of discs is an issue, but the main thing for me is to get my data backed up. I'm willing to take the risk that I'll have trouble with that.

The main thing is that I've been intrigued by these for a long time, and saving a few minutes on a burn is gravy to me. I just want to be able to put the data on DVD.

Perhaps I'm in a different segment of the market from many of you in here? I'm cheap. I'm all about the value. I'm not going to spend $200-$250 for a DVD drive to save me a few minutes on a burn. I'd rather put that money toward a new processor, monitor, video card, etc.

What do you guys think?
 
Re: Re: DVD Recorders

cursor said:
Perhaps I'm in a different segment of the market from many of you in here? I'm cheap. I'm all about the value. I'm not going to spend $200-$250 for a DVD drive to save me a few minutes on a burn. I'd rather put that money toward a new processor, monitor, video card, etc.

What do you guys think?
I agree; I think that's a very good thought process. A DVD drive is far from the most important part of a system, and burn time doesn't mean much unless you edit and save video every day to DVD. I too would rather save the money and spend it elsewhere. In fact, I currently have no DVD burner at all and have no plans to change that any time soon.
 
1) Do you currently own a DVD Recorder if so is it DVD-R, DVD+R or another format ?

Yes. DVD-R, 2x


2) Are you happy with your current DVD Recorder ?

Yes.


3) Are you currently considering buying a DVD Recorder ?

n/a, I already own one.


4) Does the information contained in this article change your thoughts on the buying a DVD Recorder... if so why

No.
 
1) Do you currently own a DVD Recorder if so is it DVD-R, DVD+R or another format ?
Yes, Optorite 0302. +/- 4X.
I also just bought a Pioneer A06. +/- 4X. The best one by concensus of the DVDR newsgroup. That's for a new machine I'm building.

2) Are you happy with your current DVD Recorder ?
Latest firmware made a big difference and it is much better now. It was pretty picky. I use it mostly for bootleg video. Not pirate stuff (copies of legit releases). This is for stuff shot at concerts or off TV. Non-commercial releases. Plus lots of data backups. I bought a new house DVD player just to make sure it was compatible with stuff I burn. So far, pretty good.

Pioneer? Haven't gotten the new PC far enough along to try it yet.

3) Are you currently considering buying a DVD Recorder ?
No, not a third one.
4) Does the information contained in this article change your thoughts on the buying a DVD Recorder... if so why

It really depends on use. One very important fact is that 1X CD is not 1X DVD. I didn't know that until about two months ago. I probably would have bought one faster. But now at $100 and dropping fast, it hardly pays to get a CD burner.
 
NEC

I just purchased a NEC ND1300-A and it does write in DVD-R and DVD+R. This is my first DVD recorder and I am very impressed with its ability and speed. But I did have problems with installing this unit when I first got it. When I first installed it windows had problems booting and and it took a couple of times. Then I ran into problem with the software that I was using. But it was all solved when I updated the firmware and now I'm happily burning movies with DVD X Copy with no problem what cheap media that I use. I know the prices are going to drop, but it hit me by surprise when it hit around the $100 mark. I got my NEC for $106. And well worth every penny.
 
I'm getting one in the near future but it has to do +/- in all DVD formats and have the buffer overrun protection. I don't care if it's the fastest burner just as long as it can do ALL formats. $200 is not an unreasonable price.
 
I just bought the plextor PX708A,supports both.

Love it!

Nope

Not really,The burner i just got burns @8x,Now from what ive read 16x may be the max that media will handle.We all know that a 16x will burn faster than an 8x, but, I dont think it will be that much of a difference.I can burn a DVD in less than 7mins.I was looking for the features more than the speed.
 
whelp I recon i will be hitting up the relatives to chip in with my new winnings to get me a dvd burner...I assumed 4x burns would be the same as a 4x CD burner...boy glad i saw this article...I currently have a 24X cd burner so speed isn't the main goal here, but features...truely I am glad somebody explained this in simple terms KUDOS!
 
Just bought a Plextor PX-708a-BL - $220 retail at Newegg and there's a $50 rebate form to download at Plextor's website. Burns very well at 4x and 8X. Retail comes with Pinnacle Studio 8, Roxio CD/DVD creator, and Power DVD as well as the normal hardware.
 
1) Do you currently own a DVD Recorder if so is it DVD-R, DVD+R or another format ?
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Alas, I do not. However, if I did have one, it would certainly be dual format (+/- R/RW).


2) Are you happy with your current DVD Recorder ?
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Well you can't really expect anything from nothing, but if there is anything that I couldn't say I was happy about, it would be nothing. (or n/a)


3) Are you currently considering buying a DVD Recorder ?
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
I would like to get either the sony or the pioneer, but it will more likely be optorite/liteon-type solution.


4) Does the information contained in this article change yourthoughts on the buying a DVD Recorder... if so why
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Not really, I knew much of it (at least generally if not as detailed). I had already planned to get a dual format drive (which should eliminate most or all format compatability problems). Media may still be having issues as well, but I find that to be true every time I buy a new CD-R/W. I have to find media that will burn at the rated speed for that drive. Granted, this could be in part to the fact that I'm more likely to have a liteon drive than an expensive drive. My main use would be for backup (I may also use for music/video dvds, but not at production level). Fifteen minutes (particularly since my first DVD+/-R/W will be in my dual proc system) doesn't seem to bad. It sure beats backing up ~.75TB on CD-Rs (okay, I don't back up that much, but that's just because the drives aren't full yet, but you get the picture).


What I do wonder about, though, is what new technologies (if any) will come out with the newer drives. I remember when I got my first cd-r before buffer under-run protection came out. I was not happy at all with my coaster maker. Essentially the drives are similar and go through a similar burning process, right? Are there new drive technologies (besides higher speed and dual layer burning) that anyone knows about, or have they hit the end of the line with what they can do?

That wouldmake a difference in my buying soon (I don't really need one yet, the big drives are in a redundant RAID until I actually generate enough content to need the space, and the other systems really only have OS/programs [data is saved on the RAID system], but it would be nice to have).

If future DVD+/-R/W drives will have something (other than dual layer, which I don't really care about ATM, I will, just not now) that really improves them, I might wait.


Good article. I did pick up some specifics where I only had generalizations, and some great links.


Side note: I have to disagree with Ed about CD 1x and DVD 1x being,
not at all the same thing.

While he is quite right about them representing vastly different data transfer rates (and the numbers are right). However, they do represent the same concept. They represent the data transfer rate needed to play the content that the media was made for in real-time. The data rate that we call 1x was determined by the industry standards for the original content type, the #x classification came when we computer users decided to use the media format and wanted to make it faster. CDs were made for music (which is essentially just an audio track @44.1kHz/16bits and a fairly small data record), and DVDs for movies (which must contain an audio track, a data record, and a video track {for which I do not know the specs: resolution, etc...). It's really that they are not at all equal.
 
Last edited:
1) Do you currently own a DVD Recorder if so is it DVD-R, DVD+R or another format ?

yes, a Liteon 401 4x +RW and a PLextor 708 8x +/-RW

2) Are you happy with your current DVD Recorder ?

the liteon is junk, the plextor rocks

3) Are you currently considering buying a DVD Recorder ?

already have 2

4) Does the information contained in this article change yourthoughts on the buying a DVD Recorder... if so why

not really
 
1) Do you currently own a DVD Recorder if so is it DVD-R, DVD+R or another format ?

No. But I have about 4000 DVD+R's. :D

2) Are you happy with your current DVD Recorder ?

Don't have one.

3) Are you currently considering buying a DVD Recorder ?

Since I have 4000 DVD+R's I should get one.

4) Does the information contained in this article change your thoughts on the buying a DVD Recorder... if so why

Not really. I bought the DVD+R's before I read the article.
 
druidelder said:
Side note: I have to disagree with Ed about CD 1x and DVD 1x being "not at all the same thing."

While he is quite right about them representing vastly different data transfer rates (and the numbers are right). However, they do represent the same concept. They represent the data transfer rate needed to play the content that the media was made for in real-time. The data rate that we call 1x was determined by the industry standards for the original content type, the #x classification came when we computer users decided to use the media format and wanted to make it faster. CDs were made for music (which is essentially just an audio track @44.1kHz/16bits and a fairly small data record), and DVDs for movies (which must contain an audio track, a data record, and a video track {for which I do not know the specs: resolution, etc...). It's really that they are not at all equal.

You say tomato, tomatoe.

1X CD is supposed to represent a 16bit 44.1khz wave file played back in real time (74 or 80 minutes per disc). That's a standard.

Problem is, the DVD mpeg bitrate doesn't necessarily have to be standard (from my understanding some retail DVD comes as VBR in order to squeeze them onto 4.7GB, though most just use the 7GB discs nowadays). To burn 4.7GB of data on my drive at 1X it takes about 5o minutes, but a standard DVD can play longer than that on 4.7GB.

I'd say Ed is closer to being correct than incorrect here.
 
I'm just semantically picky I guess. Good article though.

Here are the standards for DVD (Book B):

Video ITU-T H.262/ISO-IEC 13818-2 (MPEG-2 Video)
ISO/IEC 11172-2 (MPEG-1 Video)

Audio ISO/IEC 13818-3 (MPEG-2 Audio)
ISO/IEC 11172-3 (MPEG-1 Audio) Dolby AC-3 standard

System ITU-T H.222 / ISO/IEC 13818-1 (MPEG-2 Systems)
Program/PES stream only (no Transport streams)

Anything else is not technichally a DVD. So while you can do whatever you want with a DVD, 1x is defined by the above. As for getting more time from playback, I can do the same on a CD-R with mp3 files, but that doesn't conform to the standard. Again, just semantics.
 
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1) Do you currently own a DVD Recorder if so is it DVD-R, DVD+R or another format ?

A: Yes, a lite-on dual format

2) Are you happy with your current DVD Recorder ?

A: Yes, I have been very pleased by it's performance

3) Are you currently considering buying a DVD Recorder ?

A: I will be considering a 16X when they become available and at a cost under $100 till then I will stick with 4X

4) Does the information contained in this article change your thoughts on the buying a DVD Recorder... if so why

A: No, I had made my decision prior to reading the article, and would have done just as I am doing now regardless.
 
im going to counter point ED here, alot

Lets face it, if you are ocforums.com you are not the average user. You tweak and know how to get the most out of your hardware. So why shouldnt software be the same. DVD-R is near perfect right now. THe best method is the ripping/re encoding, here is why.

SVCD shows that you dont need an extremely high bitrate to achieve DVD quality. Most movies can fit on a 2/3 CDR's and look fine if encoded correctly.

Multilanguage- Now lets be honest how many of you are going to watch your movie in spanish, french, itallian, as well as subtitles for all. These can go clearing up valuable space.

Extras-Why not just re-encode them to lower than DVD quality. Do I really care that the theatrical trailers and out takes are more VHS quality than DVD, no not really. How often are you going to watch those anyways. These can be greatly dowgraded and still look near perfect.

So what it comes down to is you have to know your software. No one here should buy a program that promises to copy dvd's. They work horribly and I would exepct you not to have much fun with them. But if you know how to use the freeware tools out there, to rip out all the other languages and subs, encode the EXTRAS at a lower bit rate, encode the main film at an acceptable VBR, then you easily have a "perfect" copy of a DVD. It simply takes experiance in knowing how to encode/what to rip.

To post on overclockers.com to wait is rather silly. Post an article like that at say new pc owner magazines website or something. Overclockers.com should consider themselves on the bleeding edge of software and hardware. The users should be expected how to use the tools out there to create a "perfect" dvd. SO what if you have to re-encode, isnt that why we overclock our systems to begin with. You might not fold as many WU's at night while your DVD is re-encoding but who cares, not unless you are in the top 50.

Granted there are always bad choices out there, like first generation drives. BUt at this point the technology has matured, and is flawless in the hands of someone who knows how to use it.
 
DayUSeX said:
To post on overclockers.com to wait is rather silly. Post an article like that at say new pc owner magazines website or something. Overclockers.com should consider themselves on the bleeding edge of software and hardware. The users should be expected how to use the tools out there to create a "perfect" dvd. SO what if you have to re-encode, isnt that why we overclock our systems to begin with. You might not fold as many WU's at night while your DVD is re-encoding but who cares, not unless you are in the top 50.

While I agree 100% with this paragraph, I think to assume someone is savvy with hardware would also be software savvy is just plain wrong. I know a lot of members here that do awesome overclocking but can't rip a vbr mp3 with full id3. If you expect these same users to rip dvd data then re-encode properly, selecting the correct audio and chapter data, and then create and burn img files, you're gravely mistaken.
 
Pinky said:


While I agree 100% with this paragraph, I think to assume someone is savvy with hardware would also be software savvy is just plain wrong. I know a lot of members here that do awesome overclocking but can't rip a vbr mp3 with full id3. If you expect these same users to rip dvd data then re-encode properly, selecting the correct audio and chapter data, and then create and burn img files, you're gravely mistaken.

i fully agree that there are members here who can overclock blindfolded if you told them what brand board/cpu it was blindfolded. But to not know how to use your software is just plain silly.

Its like those people who buy "sports" cars with automatic transmissions. To only get half the equation is just plain wrong i feel. Ill take my slower machine if i know how to use the software, at least my DVD will come out correct =P.

But still i agree it is a rarity these days to see people who "hack" their applications to get them to run faster, well unlesss you are nvidia that is =P.

I miss the days of people making their own DLL's and hex editing software just to brag their system can handle X amount of pollys better then yours.
 
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