CPU Bottleneck, trying to reach 4.0 ghz yet again

[SgtSausage]

Okay so i upped the FSB to 235 now, it crashed. So i lowered the CPU, NB, and HT multipliers to help figure out why it was unstable even though this brought the CPU down to 3.7 ghz and the HT under 2000.

I guess i will keep trying to raise the FSB, but it is getting more difficult because it raises lots of different clocks, it can be hard to diagnose. Any guidance would be a great help.

Stress testing now, will edit with a screenshot in 30 min.

EDIT: Stable once i lowered the other multiples. I also previously raised the HT voltage 1 notch above AUTO because I've heard that helped, but just in case i lowered it back to default this time.

 

[dtrunk]

i'm a little confused... you're trying to find 4ghz and stable, right? why would you back off the multiplier? CPU Frequency is FSB x Multiplier... so you could get really high FSB x mediocre Multiplier... or you could go with full Multiplier x lower FSB. I'm just not sure what you're currently doing.

I personally would TURN THE RAM DOWN, set it to ddr800 speed and let the bios set the timing... what does that give you for ram speeds?

I personally found RAM SPEED to be my issue with pushing further and further (around the 4ghz speed.) by setting the ram speed to drr800 and auto timing, i no longer had to worry about the RAM causing bsod/non-post. when I hit a wall with FSB, i upped CPU NB volts one setting and found new stability as i raised FSB more. i had to max out HT Link volts and CPU NB volts and pushed 1.82 volts on cpu before i gave up around 4.6ghz.


http://valid.canardpc.com/show_oc.php?id=2644263 I tried lowering the multiplier to 13.5 and 13, neither allowed me to get more FSB; even with lower and higher NB Freq and HT Link.

To find 4ghz, i'd personally turn RAM speed down all the way, leave CPU multiplier at it's highest setting, work FSB up to reach 4ghz, set HT Link setting in bios so that CPUz reads close to 2000 and NB Freq in bios so CPUz reads close to 2200, you should be able to do this with around 1.45 volts... and then work the volts down until it is not stable; you might have to up CPU NB volts one notch to run a lower CPU volts; you can then work on the memory speed but i assume a ddr1033 or similar is all you'll need once the FSB gets you 4ghz.

We're talking about a lot of settings bro... so make sure you understand what we're talking about. Each OC is different but these are just some options (settings) to look at. I still haven't read about you upping any volts but CPU volts; maybe cpu nb volts will help, maybe some ram voltage will help if you keep it set as high as you have it.

 

[SgtSausage]

I'm not sure either, i am just following what i've been told.

I thought first i should find my max FSB, then work the CPU multiplier up?

I already turned down the ram, but after raising the FSB it is almost back up to 1600, wasn't that the point? Also i turned on auto timing as stated above ^^.

Also as you can see (i think) from the screenshots, i raised my NB voltage ages ago when i got my NB up to 2600, maybe a little too high on the voltage, but i will worry about backing off on that later.

 

[keny]

Just for a quick test punch these settings in to the bios and see if the cpu will run with these (this is not how its done but this is getting a long thread)

Reset the bios to default.

leave everything on auto.

cpu multi on 20X
cpu voltage on 1.475

Thats all to adjust, and see if it will boot at 20 multi.

 

[dtrunk]

well if anything, you're getting quite familiar with your bios and setup... which is priceless knowledge.

my understanding.... if you want to find max FSB, drop the multiplier to something like 10x; then you're not pushing the OC of the cpu, rather the OC of the FSB. Once you know your FSB will go to 300, then you know something else is causing instability BESIDES the FSB. it is more of a test of the chip/mobo FSB. since you're already at 235, i doubt the FSB is the issue. 235*19 = 4465.

here is an idea... FSB 211 * 19 is 4ghz... what is the problem booting at 211*19? high voltage? ((Of course you'll want to adjust HT Link to ~ 2k and NB Freq to ~ 2200; but you should be able to boot even with HTLink/NBFreq not at their optimal settings))

222 *18 is also 4ghz.

 

[SgtSausage]

Just for a quick test punch these settings in to the bios and see if the cpu will run with these (this is not how its done but this is getting a long thread)

Reset the bios to default.

leave everything on auto.

cpu multi on 20X
cpu voltage on 1.475

Thats all to adjust, and see if it will boot at 20 multi.

I've tried something just like that before, couldnt quite get it.

However i am looking for overall system performance now, so not just messing with multipliers anymore, that's what i previously did.

Is there a problem with this thread getting long, i don't mind taking it slow to get it right?, unless the people helping me are annoyed.

 

[SgtSausage]

well if anything, you're getting quite familiar with your bios and setup... which is priceless knowledge.

my understanding.... if you want to find max FSB, drop the multiplier to something like 10x; then you're not pushing the OC of the cpu, rather the OC of the FSB. Once you know your FSB will go to 300, then you know something else is causing instability BESIDES the FSB. it is more of a test of the chip/mobo FSB. since you're already at 235, i doubt the FSB is the issue. 235*19 = 4465.

here is an idea... FSB 211 * 19 is 4ghz... what is the problem booting at 211*19? high voltage? ((Of course you'll want to adjust HT Link to ~ 2k and NB Freq to ~ 2200; but you should be able to boot even with HTLink/NBFreq not at their optimal settings))

Ah i see, will have to give that a try. Obously not now, but later once stable and happy with my clock speed, i want the Nb to about 2600. If i keep the NB at 2200, but have the CPU at 4ghz, i will not be getting as much performance as the NH will bottlneck. It isn't exact, but usully the ratio you want is NB= CPU freq X 2 / 3.15

So say i get to 4.0 stable, then 4000 x 2 = 8000 / 3.15 = ~ just under 2600 NB (2539). Again it isn't quite exact, but it is generally a good guideline.

 

[dtrunk]

did some reading, you'll probably need 1.4-1.5v to OC this high... regardless. So if voltage is leading to heat... then you'd need to get better cooling OR decide to lower your overclock. Realistically we're talking about 1-5% performance between say 3.7ghz and 4ghz; so don't get too caught up on the numbers. this is the same with NB Freq, maybe closer to 2500 is better for you and your setup; but if you find 211*19 runs at 1.4v versus 222*18 at 1.5v... then i'd opt for the lower volts setting. Either way, I'd adjust the NB freq and HT Link AFTER i've found the 4ghz combo of FSBxMultiplier and lowest voltage to CPU. i want to say that at 4.6ghz the diferrences in HT Link and NB Freq were very minimal in BENCHING only; for day to day use you simply want to be in the ballpark of a specific MB Freq/HT Link setting.

 

[keny]

I've tried something just like that before, couldnt quite get it.

However i am looking for overall system performance now, so not just messing with multipliers anymore, that's what i previously did.

Is there a problem with this thread getting long, i don't mind taking it slow to get it right?, unless the people helping me are annoyed.

There's no problem with the thread getting long, but you have only made a small gain in your'e clock speed over a few days, and that sort of increase should be achievable in 10 mins (especially on a C3 chip), your'e chip should be able to boot at roughly 20 multi with the correct voltages set, the C3 stepping chips will regularly make well over 4ghz and unless you have a donkey of a chip your's should be no different. If you feel you want to save the settings you have already set in the bios over the past few days, you can save them to the bios, so you can load them up at a later date to keep on tweaking this way if you feel that you are making gains better through the FSB, but there's a reason you have a BE and thats to use the CPU multiplier to overclock with, i realy think you could make 19/20X on the cpu multi without too much trouble.

Mark

 

[SgtSausage]

There's no problem with the thread getting long, but you have only made a small gain in your'e clock speed over a few days, and that sort of increase should be achievable in 10 mins (especially on a C3 chip), your'e chip should be able to boot at roughly 20 multi with the correct voltages set, the C3 stepping chips will regularly make well over 4ghz and unless you have a donkey of a chip your's should be no different. If you feel you want to save the settings you have already set in the bios over the past few days, you can save them to the bios, so you can load them up at a later date to keep on tweaking this way if you feel that you are making gains better through the FSB, but there's a reason you have a BE and thats to use the CPU multiplier to overclock with, i realy think you could make 19/20X on the cpu multi without too much trouble.

Mark

Thanks, previously i jumped from 3.2 to 3.8 in like 10 min (about a year ago now) but i kept hitting a wall. Now i just want to follow what everyone is saying to make sure i can get the most performance.

The replys have been slow because i am at school and busy, so i usually can only run a test or two each day.

You are right though, i should be easily able to get above 3.8 i see that everywhere, but i never could. Just want to be thourghout.

 

[keny]

Ok.
Caddi has done well to get you using the fsb, as it can be tricky to explaine as it adjusts everything else as you raise it and you seemed to have grasped the idea no problem, theses things do take time though and its good to see that you're not just after all out speed.

 

[caddi daddi]

keny, I will be out of the country this weekend, why dont you take over from here.

 

[keny]

keny, I will be out of the country this weekend, why dont you take over from here.

I don't have that much time mate, i just pop in now and again, and will help out when I'm available but I work nights her (UK) which is you're evening time and being available when you guys are tweaking is tricky.

 

[caddi daddi]

then perhaps dtrunk.

 

[boucher91]

maybe this will help to explain the methodology...
for amd platforms it has always been better....
highest fsb achievable
higest multi achievable
the lowest mem latencies achievable (in the past this has really made amd shine)
highest htt and north bridge speeds achievable
all of theese at the lowest voltages achievable (this helps keep temps down considerably)
its a looooong drawn out process but it is the best

 

[SgtSausage]

I just tested the FSB at 240 and it was stable, so i then tried to up the multiplier like everyone suggested.

I went from x16 to x17, this brought me from 3840 to 4080 and that's when it crashed. I also tried x16.5 with no luck.

How would i go about finding the problem here, is the FSB too high, or could it be voltage / memory issues. I already dropped the memory down 1 multiplier (1:4 to 1:33:33) previously. Thanks, and don't worry about rushing to respond, enjoy your time off etc.

 

[keny]

The best way to clock that CPU is with the CPU multi first, then up the fsb for the last few MHz.

Set you're max vcore you're comfortable with (stay under 1.5v) Start from default settings and up the cpu multi until it fails p95 (20min test) keep temps under 55c, once it fails, dial it back one on the CPU multi and up the fsb by 2 and test again, when that fails, you have reached the max CPU clock, run p95 for a hour for full stability test, if it passes then you move onto the CPU NB, same as CPU, up the multi until it fails then when it does bump the voltage up a notch and retry (stay under 1.3v) this also adds heat to the CPU, once that's done then you can work on you're memory. I have found that with phenom ii CPUs the HT likes to be around 1600-2000.

 

[SgtSausage]

Sigh, you say to do the complete opposite, everyone else says start with the FSB then move to the multiplier.

At this point i don't want to keep starting over with every post, looking at my last screenshot, what would be my best course of action.

I appreciate the help, maybe i should have done it your way from the start.

 

[keny]

Sigh, you say to do the complete opposite, everyone else says start with the FSB then move to the multiplier.

At this point i don't want to keep starting over with every post, looking at my last screenshot, what would be my best course of action.

I appreciate the help, maybe i should have done it your way from the start.

Like I said earlier, you can usually save you're settings as a profile onto the bios memory, usually by pressing F11 or F12, it normaly tells you in the bottom right corner of the bios screen, once you have saved the profile you can reload all the settings instantly by going back to the menu and choosing load profile (F11 or F12) then you won't feel like starting from scratch all the time, plus its a good habit to get into as clearing the CMOS all the time losing all you're settings gets old fast The only things I can see are you're memory trc and tras are out of spec and you're board may not like high fsb (doubtfull but you never know) and 16gb of ram at 1600mhz may be stressing the imc after all its only rated for 1333mhz, it will probably do more but as previously stated its best to leave it low while dialling in the CPU.

 

[SgtSausage]

Thanks, yeah i can save 6 profiles on my bios, i guess i can work with that, just didn't want to get confused doing separate tests.

I already lowered my RAM once, but i can try going further to eliminate the possibility i guess, the other thing is my FSB is up to 240 now which is pretty high according to caddi daddi and usually as high as you can get normally.

I will mess around some more tomorrow, and see if i can make some more progress following your method.