I cant stand people sometimes.

[Dell_Axim]

They won't get bogged down by viruses and spyware as fast..

Or you can build a PC, put Linux on it, and then tweak the UI to *exactly* what you want.

Really, though, the major deal breaker for the mac is, as always, the price tag. Except for the mini, that is, but I don't see a mini performing as fast as a PC of the same cost. It's really nice for space-limited applications, though.

i'm not all that sure how powerful a video card one needs with photoshop...i dont think it's all that much of a factor

Photoshop will run well with a TNT2 card if that's all you have. But 3D modeling (3DSMax, AutoCAD, Bryce) is a totally different story.

 

[larva]

Or you can build a PC, put Linux on it, and then tweak the UI to *exactly* what you want.

Sure you could, but the result would be about as useful to these users as a nice Commodore Amiga.

 

[Brundle Fly]

The major price differences occur when "upgrading". For instance, to put 300+ gigs of storage in a dell costs about twice as much as it should.

2 gigs of ram vs 1, again...much more then it should.

I think if your starting from scratch and dont wana deal/dont have the knowhow, Dell is a great place. But he's got a moniter, CD drives...all the basics. He just needs a motherboard-cpu-ram-HD-case-vid card (i'm not all that sure how powerful a video card one needs with photoshop...i dont think it's all that much of a factor)

Dude, you claim you can build a system for $800 less than a Dell system. A decent Dell costs $900. What kind of system can you build for $100? Wanna tell me a good Dell costs $1400? Okay, go ahead, tell me what you can build for $400 bucks that will smoke that $1400 Dell system.

That's just not happening, and that's why you can't convince your boss that you can do it. You may think your boss is an idiot, but obviously, he/she isn't.

Apples to oranges, that type of comparison doesn't work. You say you came up with a system that rocked, and then compared it to a Dell of the same basic specs, and beat it by $800. Post a linky dude, then I'll believe you.

 

[Speciale]

There is no need to get hostile Brundle. I dont think my boss is an idiot, by any stretch. I have a great respect for the man (he served in WWII, he is known by everyone in the area becaus ehe's run the only photography buisness in the area that does yearbook photos, sporting events, graduations etc etc for over 55 years), this is why i feel like i dont want him spending more money then he needs. He is 84 years old and has a hard time remembering what day it is. I cant expect him to know the difference between a hard drive and ram.

I just put together a "quick and dirty", i dont think this is exactly what i'd build but just to throw it out there:

antec case with 400 watt smart powre PSU (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?item=N82E16811129163) $98

500 gigs of storage via 2x250 gig 8mb cache WD cav's (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?item=N82E16822144417) $280

First vid card i saw saphire 9800 pro http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?item=N82E16814102281 $137

Two gigs of GEIL PC 3200, nothin too fancy http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?item=N82E16820144322 $191

ABIT IC7-G $135

Pentium 4 630 $227

Grand total before ($100) windows disk: $1,100.80

Now Dell may be a great route for a buisness to go, and i wont mind if thats what they want to do as i stated it doesnt effect me. But it will cost them more then it needs to:

http://www.questphotos.com/bus/dell.jpg

 

[Brundle Fly]

There is no need to get hostile Brundle. I dont think my boss is an idiot, by any stretch. I have a great respect for the man (he served in WWII, he is known by everyone in the area becaus ehe's run the only photography buisness in the area that does yearbook photos, sporting events, graduations etc etc for over 55 years), this is why i feel like i dont want him spending more money then he needs. He is 84 years old and has a hard time remembering what day it is. I cant expect him to know the difference between a hard drive and ram.

I just put together a "quick and dirty", i dont think this is exactly what i'd build but just to throw it out there:

antec case with 400 watt smart powre PSU (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?item=N82E16811129163) $98

500 gigs of storage via 2x250 gig 8mb cache WD cav's (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?item=N82E16822144417) $280

First vid card i saw saphire 9800 pro http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?item=N82E16814102281 $137

Two gigs of GEIL PC 3200, nothin too fancy http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?item=N82E16820144322 $191

ABIT IC7-G $135

Pentium 4 630 $227

Grand total before ($100) windows disk: $1,100.80

Now Dell may be a great route for a buisness to go, and i wont mind if thats what they want to do as i stated it doesnt effect me. But it will cost them more then it needs to:

http://www.questphotos.com/bus/dell.jpg

No hostility here, you on the other hand, ended your original post with "end of rant".

Anyhow, forget that for a moment, and while you're forgetting that, notice that you've left out the monitor, software, and probably a printer and other accessories that come with that Dell, that are not included with your system. Then toss in the 2 year Dell warranty. Yeah, those WD's come with a 3 year warranty, but YOU will have to get that fixed up for him, won't you? Will WD go to his place of business and swap them out? Dell will. For the next 2 years.

What if you leave that job, or he fires you? Will you still be willing to fix his computer two years from now? No offence to Newegg meant, but does that price also include shipping?

This is a photolab, if the computer is down, the business is down.

It is very easy to see why he would go with a Dell instead of with a custom machine, no matter who was to build it.

And I still say you cannot build a system to the same specs as a Dell, with all the bells and whistles, for $800 less, you haven't shown me that yet. You also know of course that putting your system together would mean doing it for free, and that to compare to that Dell all your service/trouble shooting/hardware/software fixes will be for free too, for the next two years, right?

Apples to oranges doesn't work

 

[Speciale]

For starters, this isnt a photo lab...this is a photo studio. They take the photos and need a computer to store and lightly edit the photos before the do send it to the lab. Very big difference. When the cameras are down the buisness is down.

I understand he'd be getting software and a monitor, but again he's already invested in a monitor so that is a moot point really.

Would i build it for free? Honestly yes...he would still stuff a 20 in my front pocket though. Would i trouble shoot it for free? It depends on whats wrong with it.

Yes that price includes the $30 shipping.

I'd also like to point out one last thing, he has a compaq, and at this point it would be his intention to go to best buy again and let some pimply faced teenager from best buy talk him into another compaq. The only reason i personally brought up Dell is because they are the only computer company that i would ever spend my own money on for a desktop if i ever needed to.

The reason for my "rant" (and it is a rant towards a general population, not you...) is because i heard through the grapevine that he doesnt know if i could build a computer powerful enough. Not whether buying a Dell was a better option.

I think anyone here can build a more powerful computer then most of what Dell puts out...it was my knowhow that was put into question and what i had a beef with, not why.

As i've stated many times, if they go out and buy a computer that is their choice really. My main job there is to work in the dark room, clean, and go out and take photos every once and a while. It is only because i've been in digital photography for 2 years, and building computers for 5 that this has come up. I have seen what their other computer lady has said and tried to do to their compaq, and they always seem to come to me with the questions when her answers inevitibly fail.

 

[dark_15]

I also build custom machines as well and the big question that I am always asked is can you fix it up as quickly as dell? What would it entail for a repair?

Dell can have me a new part by the next business day, and have a tech support guy to install it (if necessary) in 3.
You will not be able to do that. All of your parts will take a day to RMA, and another week to ship the affected part (at the company's cost), and a week or two to ship it back.

That's 3 weeks... compared to 3 days at worst.

The only thing you can do to replace it quickly is to buy an extra machine for spare parts, while you RMA the faulty parts. But if two sets of RAM fail... you're SOL, and you also negated the savings in buying a new system you can't use.

 

[Thelemac]

Perhaps it's just a power struggle thing, i just know that if they get a Dell stuff will hit the fan a lot sooner then if i were to build it, i'd imagine that she'd be less likeliy to screw around with a computer that i setup then a Dell.

Administrator priveleges.

Password the BIOS and have the only bootable drive the hdd. If she's that clueless she won't be able to "upgrade" to XP. Make sure nobody has the admin password and have it setup so that changes can only be made by the admin.

For a business, only the people that know what they're doing need to be rooting around in the computer changing stuff.

 

[Speciale]

I also build custom machines as well and the big question that I am always asked is can you fix it up as quickly as dell? What would it entail for a repair?

Dell can have me a new part by the next business day, and have a tech support guy to install it (if necessary) in 3.
You will not be able to do that. All of your parts will take a day to RMA, and another week to ship the affected part (at the company's cost), and a week or two to ship it back.

That's 3 weeks... compared to 3 days at worst.

The only thing you can do to replace it quickly is to buy an extra machine for spare parts, while you RMA the faulty parts. But if two sets of RAM fail... you're SOL, and you also negated the savings in buying a new system you can't use.

I understand what your saying and agree entirely but i think we're going overboard here. I've never had a part in my computer just die for no reason with the exception of a H/D, let alone two random sets of RAM. Dont get me wrong, i've had many parts running out of spec that have died.

Also, 3 weeks to return an RMA...i'm not sure who your dealing with but i wouldnt buy their product anymore lol.

I once had to RMA my logitech z680's...heck, they sent me two new sets in 9 days lol

 

[Speciale]

For a business, only the people that know what they're doing need to be rooting around in the computer changing stuff.

Haha, the same applies for my home as far as i'm concerned, sadly that doesnt always seem to pan out in my favor.

 

[Brundle Fly]

For starters, this isnt a photo lab...this is a photo studio. They take the photos and need a computer to store and lightly edit the photos before the do send it to the lab. Very big difference. When the cameras are down the buisness is down.

If the only reason for getting the new computer is because he will need it as he'll be going digital, then that computer IS very important to the business, otherwise, why upgrade in the first place?

I understand he'd be getting software and a monitor, but again he's already invested in a monitor so that is a moot point really.

Actually, you'd have to subtract the cost of all the extras from the Dell's price, then you'd be comparing apples to apples(and no, I don't mean "Mac's, heh heh heh).

Would i build it for free? Honestly yes...he would still stuff a 20 in my front pocket though. Would i trouble shoot it for free? It depends on whats wrong with it.

Ouch! So, if you decide the problem is not your responsibility, he has to call in an outside techie to fix his system onsite. There goes the "savings" from getting a custom system.

Yes that price includes the $30 shipping.

I'd also like to point out one last thing, he has a compaq, and at this point it would be his intention to go to best buy again and let some pimply faced teenager from best buy talk him into another compaq. The only reason i personally brought up Dell is because they are the only computer company that i would ever spend my own money on for a desktop if i ever needed to.

He's 84 years old? Good luck changing his opinion on anything, especially if the Compaq has served him well for however long he's had it. If he's driven a Chevy for the last 60 years, I doubt you'd be able to convince him to buy a Honda for his next vehicle, no matter what arguements you presented him with.

The reason for my "rant" (and it is a rant towards a general population, not you...) is because i heard through the grapevine that he doesnt know if i could build a computer powerful enough. Not whether buying a Dell was a better option.

I think anyone here can build a more powerful computer then most of what Dell puts out...it was my knowhow that was put into question and what i had a beef with, not why.

You'd best grow a thicker skin if that offends you, and you want to keep building systems. Anytime something goes wrong in a custom system, the guy who built it is blamed. If the vidcard dies, you'll be asked why you put such a POS vidcard in his custom system. It won't be the manufacturer's fault for using faulty RAM, or because they got a batch of bad caps, it will be your fault. You can't take that kind of thing as a personal attack, Dell doesn't take things personally, they just fix it.

As i've stated many times, if they go out and buy a computer that is their choice really. My main job there is to work in the dark room, clean, and go out and take photos every once and a while. It is only because i've been in digital photography for 2 years, and building computers for 5 that this has come up. I have seen what their other computer lady has said and tried to do to their compaq, and they always seem to come to me with the questions when her answers inevitibly fail.

I don't want you to take this as a personal attack, it is not an attack, just a few questions. You say you've been building systems for 5 years, and into digital photography for 2 years. Why don't you know how powerful the vidcard needs to be for what he wants to do? You say a Dell will be as slow as a snail in two years. That Dell is PCI-E, the system you offered is AGP. Which do you think will offer the most "bang for the buck" when it comes to upgrading in two years? That mobo is socket 478, and I do believe the processor you want to use(P4 630) is socket 775. You say you put together a "quick and dirty" system for him? Maybe that's the problem, you should have put more thought into it.

Constructive criticism dude, by no means an attack, peace

 

[larva]

This has kind of devolved into bickering at this point. The point here is, several people that have been there and done that have stepped up and told you what the truth of the matter is. For a business, buying computers from Dell is ideal. If you have a competent PC enthusiast on staff, they can help streamline the transactions and service. You should try to be that person.

Dell is a business owner's dream PC vendor. They sell nothing but the highest quality, most supported, and user-friendly stuff. Hit the button, it works. And it works well, silently, and for as long as the machine's power level will do anyone any good. And should you have a component failure? Dell will get the replacement stuff there faster than any individual can. And if you truly normalize the purchase, you find that Dell's price is ever-so-hard to beat.

If you don't understand the value of Dell's service to your boss, honestly, you simply aren't the PC expert you represent yourself to him to be. Devaluing what Dell offers shows what you don't know about PCs in the business environment, not what Dell doesn't. Those of us that have seen and tried it both ways know Dell is great, and there simply is no elegant solution to problem that does not exist.

As alluded to, this is more a power struggle than anything. Understand that you will always lose this struggle when the opposition is your employer. Stop allowing personal feelings to affect your professional judgement, or professional isn't really the right word.

 

[Speciale]

Well, i never said a Dell would be slow as a snail in 2 years. It all depends on who is doing what to the computer. If i were to reformat that compaq and put the proper OS on it it would be running just fine.

When i put that system together it was to show you, that wasnt the system i showed him.

This has kind of devolved into bickering at this point. The point here is, several people that have been there and done that have stepped up and told you what the truth of the matter is. For a business, buying computers from Dell is ideal. If you have a competent PC enthusiast on staff, they can help streamline the transactions and service. You should try to be that person.

This is the 2nd forum i've posted this on and at both places i've been told by people whom i respect (such as you due to your experience in this field) that it would probably be better FOR ME to let them buy their own PC.

I'm not against him buying a Dell, again though Dell hasnt even been discussed, i'm not against any choice he makes. In the end its his buisness and he's managed pretty well for 55 years.

You say you've been building systems for 5 years, and into digital photography for 2 years. Why don't you know how powerful the vidcard needs to be for what he wants to do?

Every computer i've built for myself has been geared towards gaming in the videocard department, you'll have to forgive me if i dont know how intense a 2D program like PS is on the videocard. I'm pretty sure it isnt at all.

I never called myself an "exper", i simply stated that i've built enough computers in the past to do it without screwing it up and i know that i can build him a computer that is the same speed/storage etc for less money. Perhaps a warranty is worth it to him, it's really not up to me.

Again though i feel this is off topic, if you read my original post:

At any rate, he told my girlfriend, who works there, that he "wasnt sure that i could build a computer that is good enough for what they want to do". I dont know where he's getting this idea, i have a feeling it's from one of the ladies there who thinks she knows EVERYTHING includign computers. This being the same lady that installed windows XP on the machine because it was running slow, with all it's 256mb of ram...

Take into account that he's 84 and he admitingly knows nothing about computers...there is only one other source that it could have come from, and that is what upsets me. Not the fact that he's considering buying a name brand PC. In the end i've got my own PC to edit my own photographs on...and it pays well

 

[Speciale]

He's 84 years old? Good luck changing his opinion on anything, especially if the Compaq has served him well for however long he's had it. If he's driven a Chevy for the last 60 years, I doubt you'd be able to convince him to buy a Honda for his next vehicle, no matter what arguements you presented him with.

I just also wanted to point out htat i'm not losing any sleep over this. I have not tried to convince him of anything, they told me they bought a new camera and they wanted to do their own editing to save money. I said "you're going to need a new computer if you want to have any real productivity then". He said he knew and asked me what i would get. Thas when i informed him that i build my own, he was suprised and asked why. I presented him the facts as i saw it. Better quality and typically cheaper...he was interested and asked if i would build him one if thats what they decided to do. I said yes.

 

[larva]

This is the 2nd forum i've posted this on and at both places i've been told by people whom i respect (such as you due to your experience in this field) that it would probably be better FOR ME to let them buy their own PC.

I'm glad you respect my advice, but I would rather you actually consider the thrust of what I am saying. It's better FOR HIM, and that is the means by which it is better for you. Again, your remark reveals that your priorities in this matter are yours, not his, and that's the reason an issue existed in the first place. In this kind of endeavor, the helper wins via the helpee's advancement, not the other way around.

 

[Speciale]

I'm glad you respect my advice, but I would rather you actually consider the thrust of what I am saying. It's better FOR HIM, and that is the means by which it is better for you. Again, your remark reveals that your priorities in this matter are yours, not his, and that's the reason an issue existed in the first place. In this kind of endeavor, the helper wins via the helpee's advancement, not the other way around.

Very good point indeed. I guess what it boils down to is whether or not i'm convinced that something like Dell would indeed be a better route, i'm not saying it isnt...in fact the more we discuss it the more i'm convinced it might be a better route.

 

[larva]

As a final note, it's not somebody like Dell he needs, it is Dell themselves. Nobody else offers the consistant machine quality, support, and total value that Dell does. If you are talking about anybody but Dell, your original outlook and assertions are viable. Dell is different than other "name-brand" PC makers. HP/Compaq, for instance, is a nightmare in the same environment.

 

[Mr.Guvernment]

Anyhow, forget that for a moment, and while you're forgetting that, notice that you've left out the monitor, software, and probably a printer and other accessories that come with that Dell, that are not included with your system. Then toss in the 2 year Dell warranty. Yeah, those WD's come with a 3 year warranty, but YOU will have to get that fixed up for him, won't you? Will WD go to his place of business and swap them out? Dell will. For the next 2 years.

What if you leave that job, or he fires you? Will you still be willing to fix his computer two years from now? No offence to Newegg meant, but does that price also include shipping?

This is the ebst part - yes you can get an RMA in 9 days - so what then is he supposed to use?

buying a dell makes life easier for YOU in the end - that $800 - is it worth him possibly calling you @ say 5am on a saturday morning because his harddrive did die and now he needs you to get everything off it and fix it

So now you have to consder your time + buying a new harddrive + installing the O/S and everything else again - while you go and try to recover his life's work....

it is a big responsibility! and can be very very time consuming.

i sell used system to people now in costa rica and my deal is i will give them 3-6 months warrenty on items = pending on how used they are - but the second they choose to reformat that system or change any configurations, my support is voided and they are going to be paying me to fix there mistakes.

talk to your boss - get him some new ram for his 256mb XP system now and watch it, fly, give him confidence back that you know what you are doing.

u can get a gig of ram for $100 these days.

 

[Speciale]

If you are talking about anybody but Dell, your original outlook and assertions are viable. Dell is different than other "name-brand" PC makers. HP/Compaq, for instance, is a nightmare in the same environment.

Even based on my limited experience i will agree to that. It's not by accident that schools and office buildings usually have nothing but Dell.