Intel VROC, real joke ...

[Woomack]

I just got Premium Intel VROC module and guess what ... it's not working. There can be couple of reasons as I received info that Intel decided to change compatibility after release ( these modules were not available for about half year after premiere so part of what was said half year ago may not be true anymore ). So this is how it looks like when I try to set RAID on my drives:
- VROC module not installed = can set RAID 0/1 but only using RST Enterprise software and here is one more thing ... software is showing info that trial period is 90 days, so what, RAID won't work after that ?
- VROC module installed = can't set RAID even in software, BIOS is showing info that module is working but no option is available, in software drives have status unsupported, so supported drives are suddenly unsupported when I use module ?

VROC supposed to work on all X299 motherboards. Today I got info that Intel claims it works only on scalable Xeon processors and these processors are not even avilable for this socket ... and it's not guaranteed that will work on all motherboards.

That's all for now. Somehow AMD let to use all this functionality without additional costs and Intel wants us to pay for modules which are not even working.
I know there was a lot said about VROC already but this time I had a chance to check module ( which I got for much lower price than retail ) so I wanted to share.
Maybe something will change as there is still chance on new firmware but for now it's total waste of money.

 

[HankB]

I didn't know what VROC was so I had to look it up. https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/support/articles/000024550/memory-and-storage.html

From the entry "What is the biggest advantage of Intel VROC?"

... without using a RAID hot bus adapter (HBA)

I need a RAID hot bus adapter.

 

[custom90gt]

I love that intel made this a pay for feature, but even if you pay for it you still can't get it...

 

[EarthDog]

It works on X299 without a scalable processor.
https://www.pcper.com/reviews/Stora...-Quad-Optane-vs-Quad-960-PRO/More-Confusion-C

I also thought it required Intel SSDs... are you using Intel SSDs (or the select 3rd party ones?)?
Do you have a key?
Perhaps the HCC processors (7920X and up) only support it? I don't know what you are using CPU or board wise for this exercise.

Side note, the Xeon-W scalable chips work for the LGA2066 socket (the W-2123 to W-2195). Those are for C422 chipsets and not X299 however.

There is an FAQ from Intel in July though that says its for Xeon only too...


.... confusing.

 

[Woomack]

works in pass-through mode = without VROC key, only on some SSD and can't boot from array ... and there is 90 day trial mode
from your link:
"I can choose any of those options. They all work. They all create usable arrays that report as bootable, though the interface is reporting that I am in a 'Trial mode' for a 90-day period. While everything seems to work, except for boot support actually working (which we can only assume is due to the BIOS needing a key installed for that feature to function), there are additional points of confusion to bring up:"
so exactly the same as I have without hardware key ... but with hardware key it's not working at all and I can't even set RAID0

I haven't seen 2066 Xeons in stores yet. First were expected in Q3, some are marked as released but all I see are higher series Xeons for other socket. It doesn't change fact that after release Intel said it will work on Skylake-X with X299 chipset... for some reason all motherboard manufacturers installed that VROC socket and added description while the same motherboards have no Xeons on the list of supported processors.
I also got confirmation from ASRock that VROC is not working like it supposed to.

 

[mackerel]

I've seen various youtubers (including pcper above) have a go at VROC and... suffice to say it seems there are still a lot of operating issues. Maybe that's part of why the dongles aren't readily available yet. It was simply not ready for general use. The AMD implementation also has its share of quirks and problems too.

 

[EarthDog]

works in pass-through mode = without VROC key, only on some SSD and can't boot from array ... and there is 90 day trial mode
from your link:
"I can choose any of those options. They all work. They all create usable arrays that report as bootable, though the interface is reporting that I am in a 'Trial mode' for a 90-day period. While everything seems to work, except for boot support actually working (which we can only assume is due to the BIOS needing a key installed for that feature to function), there are additional points of confusion to bring up:"
so exactly the same as I have without hardware key ... but with hardware key it's not working at all and I can't even set RAID0

I haven't seen 2066 Xeons in stores yet. First were expected in Q3, some are marked as released but all I see are higher series Xeons for other socket. It doesn't change fact that after release Intel said it will work on Skylake-X with X299 chipset... for some reason all motherboard manufacturers installed that VROC socket and added description while the same motherboards have no Xeons on the list of supported processors.
I also got confirmation from ASRock that VROC is not working like it supposed to.

I also thought it required Intel SSDs... are you using Intel SSDs (or the select 3rd party ones?)?
Do you have a key?
Perhaps the HCC processors (7920X and up) only support it? I don't know what you are using CPU or board wise for this exercise.

 

[Woomack]

I said in the first post that I have Premium VROC key so the highest you can get which supposed to unlock everything.
Intel SSD are required to use bootable mode without VROC key and nothing else. Without VROC key I'm able to set non-bootable RAID exactly the same as in pcper.com link ( I was posting results some weeks/months ago ). The main issue is that once I use the key then nothing is working, it even won't let me set non-bootable RAID. As I said, no key = SSD work, key = SSD are unsupported.
I was checking that on 7900X and ASUS X299 TUF Mk2 and ASRock X299 Taichi XE. It supposed to work for about half year now and 7920X was released a bit more than month ago.

Right now Intel says that only scalable Xeons are supporting it ( support VDM on the hardware level what I doubt ) but after release they said it will work on Skylake-X.

 

[Woomack]

I know I'm probably the only one who is digging in this topic but I guess that some forum members are interested too so here are next news ( from today ).

Intel specs is not really true and they changed it again. They lie to motherboard manufacturers who had to change user's manuals ( ASRock updated online manuals already ).
Looks like Intel unlocked VROC functionality only for Intel SSD. Non-Intel SSD support seems to be locked on the firmware level and compatible SSD are only expensive series ... Intel is not even giving list of compatible drives except single models which cost $1k+.
They also say it works only on scalable Xeons but there are no scalable Xeons on 2066 socket and all 2066 Xeons have info that are not supporting Optane ( part of Intel technology somehow related to VROC but I'm not sure if it's required ). If only Scalable Xeons work with VROC then why all motherboard manufacturers install VROC sockets on X299 boards ? My source confirmed it should work on Skylake-X even though Intel says it's supported only on Xeons. I guess we have to wait some more for actual tests.

 

[EarthDog]

Post 4... that's what I thought is how it worked.

 

[Alaric]

Intel seems to be having a hard time figuring out where they're going and how to get there lately.

 

[Tír na nÓg]

I really hope Zen 1.2 and Zen 2 will deliver.

I am fed up with the Blue Team policy (you know, blue, like Roquefort: it stinks!).

 

[Alaric]

I kind of expected Intel to focus after Zen showed up and showed its strengths (and weaknesses). Instead we went from Sky to Kaby to Coffee to....

There seems to be a lack of corporate cohesion in their map reading. Is something going on there or did AMD really surprise them that much? Or has a wall been hit and AMD got a head start on going around it with multi threading while Intel just keeps trying to climb faster? Their 10 nm process has taken longer than planned, is lack of progress there what has them in a tizzy?

 

[mackerel]

I don't think Intel was surprised at the performance of Ryzen, but more at the price aggressiveness of configurations that AMD are offering. It is something they both don't want to react to, but at the same time, they have to. AMD's message is to attack cores/threads, and they have a relatively easy trip there. AMD's genius here is in providing "enough" per core performance, backed up with core quantity. They're not (yet) fighting on clock, and their choice of putting in half the FPU will save them cost, allow marketing of apparent lower maximum power, without impacting light user performance. Current lack of iGPU would also help keep costs down. The VROC or whatever AMD equivalent is a continuation of that thinking. I don't think AMD really had a choice to take this route, they have to offer more than Intel at a price level to gain traction. My concern is, are they devaluing themselves too much in the process? It's getting silly now, ok we're in discount season but right now a 1800X costs less than a launch 1700. It has been stated the CCX mentality has enabled AMD to make their manufacturing more cost efficient, but I still have to wonder if Intel economies of scale might offset that. Does AMD still have a good margin on Ryzen, or are they "buying" market share? If the latter, it is a longer term game with risks involved, as they still need to realise momentum in future sales.

 

[Alaric]

AMD's history of multi threading and making "slower" chips that perform well seems to be combined nicely at present. I think they really have a winner on their hands at the moment, but I didn't think Intel would repond in such a haphazard manner. I expected them to bite the bullet for a while, then come back with a solid shot across the Red bow. Instead, it looks like they're just throwing a box of chips against the wall in the hope that something sticks. AMD's current pricing strategy isn't helping Intel out much, either. As someone considering a Ryzen build in the upcoming year, I'm all for lower prices.
In the end, Intel isn't going anywhere and everybody knows that. But if AMD can keep hacking away at the cost thing they may eventually have an effect on Intel's pricing scheme. I'm just not sure AMD should be getting in to a contest of who can throw away money the longest.

 

[Mr.Scott]

AMD isn't throwing away anything.
EPYC and OEM APU's is where the money is.

 

[Woomack]

Maybe money will be in some time as business clients are still not convinced to AMD products and new APUs are not even released yet. Current APUs are based on old chips and are pathetic comparing to what Intel is offering.
For last ~6-7 years AMD was nearly not existing on business market. Branded servers were not available in stores just like that. Every distributor was offering Intels and if you wanted AMD then it was available as a special order. Now I see that brands like HP are introducing new server series based on AMD what is good sign.
Zen is a huge step for AMD but it will take time till people trust them enough to invest in servers. I guess 2-3 years and it will change if they keep releasing good products.
All we see in news about this or that company which is using now AMD is really small % of all sales.
I work with business clients and so far not even one asked about new server based on AMD.

 

[Alaric]

I think a potentially bigger issue is it may take a while for the sales people to tell them about AMD based servers. Just waiting for them to ask isn't selling, that's clerking. LOL

 

[Woomack]

It's hard to offer something what doesn't exist on the mass market. What you see in press releases and news with magical results is what will be in stores in half year, not now. I offer what I find optimal but I'm also not really sales person. Even though I offer hardware and sell from time to time then I get nothing from that so I don't really care what I sell as long as it meets client's needs. In last years ( 6-7 ) not even one client wanted to buy AMD based server. They didn't even want to hear about AMD.
Other thing is that new servers based on AMD are still too new to predict stability and compatibility.
I hope there will be some good options from AMD in some time as Intel is not even trying recently and their prices are constantly going up. Think that they fired whole support department from central EU. I was talking with their rep yesterday who said that they are working till end of this week and later all lose jobs. What more, no one knows who will take care of support. Not to mention that what I said about specification changes in VROC also happens to other products. There are companies with huge projects and they lose a lot of money because of that. For instance Intel has changed specs to some hardware which in pharmaceutic companies mean additional tests, lost money and time ... intel doesn't care and provide no help.

Going back to VROC, I will check if it's working with Optane SSD as I got 4x16GB for ~$15 each on sale. Low capacity but for tests should be fine and I will use it for something else later. Also won't be an issue to sell them in similar price when I decide I don't need them anymore.

 

[Woomack]

2x Optane 16GB works in RAID0/1 VROC but still it's somehow weird as each time when I create RAID then in first benchmarks, RAID is switching status to corrupted. When I enter RAID manager and change it manually to normal then since this moment everything is 100% stable.
Other thing is that after creating array in BIOS there is info that array is bootable but when I do the same in Intel soft then is info that RAID on different VMD cannot be bootable. It's acting like each PCIe slot was different "controller".
One more thing is that 16GB Optane drives after creating partition have ~13GB usable space. Even much larger SSD were losing less after format. As I said, drives were cheap and I can sell them without any lose ( maybe except time ) so it's not an issue.
After browsing list of available Intel PCIE/M.2 SSD I can only say there are barely any SSD on the market which will work and barely any of them are in reasonable price. Everything recommended costs $1k+ per drive and everything below $500 is so slow or so low capacity that is better to buy Samsung NVMe and install it in standard M.2 socket.

here are 2 screenshots with results on 2x16GB Optane drives. I'm able to install 3 of them in M.2 sockets on board or via PCIE cards but I can't find any card that will support more than 1 M.2 NVMe SSD.