PayPal help?

[Enablingwolf]

I've seen people talking about taking legal action against Paypal for this and much less - but they never read the agreement that they "signed."

Yeah, there is a part of the agreement that the courts are moot.

14.2 Arbitration. For any claim (excluding claims for injunctive or other equitable relief) where the total amount of the award sought is less than $10,000.00 USD, the party requesting relief may elect to resolve the dispute in a cost effective manner through binding non-appearance-based arbitration. If a party elects arbitration, that party will initiate such arbitration through an established alternative dispute resolution (ADR) provider mutually agreed upon by the parties. The ADR provider and the parties must comply with the following rules: a) the arbitration shall be conducted by telephone, online and/or be solely based on written submissions, the specific manner shall be chosen by the party initiating the arbitration; b) the arbitration shall not involve any personal appearance by the parties or witnesses unless otherwise mutually agreed by the parties; and c) any judgment on the award rendered by the arbitrator may be entered in any court of competent jurisdiction.

14.3 Law and Forum for Disputes. Except as otherwise agreed by the parties or as described in section 14.2 above, you agree that any claim or dispute you may have against PayPal must be resolved by a court located in either Santa Clara County, California, or Omaha, Nebraska. You agree to submit to the personal jurisdiction of the courts located within Santa Clara County, California, or Omaha, Nebraska for the purpose of litigating all such claims or disputes. This Agreement shall be governed in all respects by the laws of the State of California, without regard to conflict of law provisions.

The screwed part.... Arbitrators are more than likely going to side with the company that hires them. Something like 90% of the time. When you agree to the term of the contract, using the service. You waive some rights. Like being able to sue them outright. Get this, you cannot be there physically, during the arbitration..
They are not a gank..err, I mean bank. So they do no have to adhere to banking rules. So the FTC is moot here. They are I think considered a broker.

One thing they cannot do. Is take more funds than you authorize them access to from the originating account. You give them a set amount of funds in a trust, that they manage on your behalf. They can only attempt collection activities past that. If your in the negative for your account..
If I am incorrect. Could you please show me law or a case precedent / rule that enlightens me otherwise. I do believe it would be not only screwed, but illegal. If they took funds from your bank account, without your giving explicit access to the funds.


Here is a horror story site:
http://www.paypalwarning.com/

It does have some good, but slanted information. It is a site about the bad of paypal.. Maybe you can garner some information and tips from there..

 

[drshivas]

Wow.

I've been with PP since '01 and haven't had a problem yet. I even won a chargeback dispute against an ebay seller as a PP buyer recently.

Here's my advice on using PP:

1) I always withdraw money as soon as it is available.
2) I never ship unless funds are cleared, i.e. e-check.
3) I have never used PP shipping labels. OP confirms why not.
4) Always pay with a CC through PP, unless you're on a trusted network like OCF classies where sellers require (ask nicely) for non-cc payments. (Premeire accounts charge the seller the same for CC and instant transfer, so don't feel bad. It's up to the seller to know and specify which payment method they want.)
5) Be honest, be good, expect the worst.
6) Have two accounts- a premiere and personal. It's totally allowed according to PP's TOS. I use my premiere as a seller on ebay, and my personal as a seller on OCF classifieds when asking for non-cc payment.

About that chargeback I won- I went through my Chase Visa dispute process on a PP ebay transaction where I was the buyer. You know how PP defaults all your payments to bank account? This is why: paying by credit card gives you leverage on a dispute. If you pay by bank account, it's you vs PP if something goes wrong. If you pay by CC, and you follow the rules, it's your CC on your behalf vs PP.

Anyway, Chase refunded me the disputed amount, and PP went after the seller for that same amount.

@SuperMotarded, r u all good now?

 

[Ach3r0n]

100% false.....PayPal cannot touch your bank acct....the only thing they can do is put your PP act in the negative, and possibly start collections against you if it stays negative.

The User Agreement that everyone "signs" by using Paypal is worded in such a way that they can in fact debit your bank account. Now it's gray enough that it may not hold up in court but that's another issue.

4.5 Risk of Reversals, Chargebacks and Claims.When you receive a payment, you are liable to PayPal for the full amount of the payment plus any Fees if the payment is later invalidated for any reason. This means that, in addition to any other liability, you will be responsible for the amount of the payment, plus the applicable Fees listed in section 8 of this Agreement if you lose a Claim or a Chargeback, or if there is a Reversal of the payment. You agree to allow PayPal to recover any amounts due to PayPal by debiting your Balance. If there are insufficient funds in your Balance to cover your liability, you agree to reimburse PayPal through other means.

I have seen loads of reports of Paypal doing just that across the web also. They aren't "taking your money" as some people paint it. They are issuing a charge for money they believe is owed to them. I am not saying you wouldn't have grounds to fight it, just that they can and have done it.