Question about RAID/NAS/DAS storage solutions

[Cant.Touch.This]

Hi guys, I just wanted to ask a couple of questions on which solutions may be the best for me and whether it would be compatible with my system or not.

I'm looking into 3TB HDDs and ran into online articles about a 2.19TB barrier. I'm using the same system in my signature, the way I understand this is as long as I'm using a 64-bit OS and format the drive as a GPT disk I can write/read all 3TB fine as a data drive only? Also running out of physical space for an extra disk drives, I have one free port and physical slot.

So about the storage solutions, I'm connected to my router via a 300Mbps adapter so I believe I'd be limited to that transfer rate between my computer and NAS, yes? I have NAS rather low on my choices because of this limitation. I'm not using this in any time critical situation so I'd just hate to see it transfer so slow... lol.

As for external enclosures, I'm not sure if my next option I want requires a RAID or not, but I would like the unit to have options to see however many disks I add in to be viewed as one disk or individual disks (maybe I should elaborate on this if need be). That being said, at most I'd probably want is a 4-bay storage solution. But would a single unit be able to read/write all 12TB assuming each disk is 3TB?

For now this is all I'm posting since I can't really come up with anything else to start off. I do appreciate anyone who takes their time to help me on this as I've been detached from technology for a while so I'm just playing catch-up with what's what these days.

 

[Randyman...]

IIRC, even a 32-Bit W7/Vista can mount a GPT drive just fine, but cannot boot from them. But, yes, GPT partition tables allow the entire drive to be seen as one big honkin' partition in OS's that support GPT.

WRT your NAS type questions - You seem to be on the right track. I recently picked up a ReadyNAS Ultra-4 Plus, and loaded it with 4x 3TB Drives. Shows up as a huge 8.2TB partition (after Formatting and Parity/Redundancy). It can't quite saturate my Gig-E LAN like my "true hardware NAS" does, but it is fine for most any use I can ponder. There are lots of pre-built NAS options out there, and I've only used the ReadyNAS thus far, so that's all I can comment on.

You can also "roll your own" like I did (NAS#1 in my sig) - but there's not much sense in building something like that with a "Hardware RAID Card" unless you really need the insane bandwidth (easily saturates Gig-E both directions). You can also use an old PC and freeware like "FreeNAS" to make a lower-end NAS box that uses "Software RAID" - or even "JBOD"...

As you can see - lots of options are out there....

 

[TiZakit]

Your options really depend on your needs.

• Do you need speed?
• How valuable is the data?
• Do you need redundancy?
• What are you doing for backups?
• What is your budget?

Why Not get a larger case and store your drives in it? The main benefit of a NAS is the centralized nature. If you only need that data in one spot, why a NAS?

 

[Randyman...]

Your options really depend on your needs.

• Do you need speed?
• How valuable is the data?
• Do you need redundancy?
• What are you doing for backups?
• What is your budget?

Those are fantastic criteria to base your needs off of. My data is invaluable - thus my exttravagent NAS/Backup solutions .

Why Not get a larger case and store your drives in it? The main benefit of a NAS is the centralized nature. If you only need that data in one spot, why a NAS?

One word: Backup.

As I'm sure you know, RAID is NOT a backup. And even 2 RAID arrays in the same PC is not a "Backup" IMO (PSU failure or other nasty controller failures/corrpution can wipe out both arrays in a flash!). I prefer to have my primary hardware RAID-6 in my primary desktop PC. Then, I back that up to another RAID-6 hardware NAS, and to the ReadyNAS. I also have 2 complete sets of single HD's (two sets of 5 drives) that I rotate offsite for off-site backups.

So - Follow the criteria TiZakit set forth, and you and your data will be headed in the right direction Only you can put a value on your data. Mine is worth quite a lot, and the cost involved is directly related...

 

[Automata]

I'm looking into 3TB HDDs and ran into online articles about a 2.19TB barrier. I'm using the same system in my signature, the way I understand this is as long as I'm using a 64-bit OS and format the drive as a GPT disk I can write/read all 3TB fine as a data drive only? Also running out of physical space for an extra disk drives, I have one free port and physical slot.

Just as you say, if you format as GPT, you can use the entire partition.

So about the storage solutions, I'm connected to my router via a 300Mbps adapter so I believe I'd be limited to that transfer rate between my computer and NAS, yes? I have NAS rather low on my choices because of this limitation. I'm not using this in any time critical situation so I'd just hate to see it transfer so slow... lol.

That would be slow and I'm assuming that you are on some sort of wireless. Transferring large amounts of data, even at peak performance, would be painfully slow. You either want something that is attached directly to the system (internal/external) or where you have a hard line connection to it. If you are just going to load it up with movies and then stream, this isn't as much of an issue.

As for external enclosures, I'm not sure if my next option I want requires a RAID or not, but I would like the unit to have options to see however many disks I add in to be viewed as one disk or individual disks (maybe I should elaborate on this if need be). That being said, at most I'd probably want is a 4-bay storage solution. But would a single unit be able to read/write all 12TB assuming each disk is 3TB?

With more than two drives, trying to manage locations and the redundancy of files is going to be a nightmare. Use RAID unless you have a very good reason not to. The space will all be usable. I'm running a nine (9) disk RAID 6 array with 2 TB Hitachi drives to give me a total of 14 TB usable space. I have one huge partition on this.

For now this is all I'm posting since I can't really come up with anything else to start off. I do appreciate anyone who takes their time to help me on this as I've been detached from technology for a while so I'm just playing catch-up with what's what these days.

Answers to TiZakit's questions will help us get you in the right direction. I'll probably mention a few that he has already covered, but they are really that important.

You need to think of requirements for your server. What is more important, space, redundancy or speed? What is your budget? What are you going to store on it? How much space do you need now and in the future? Do you want to be able to easily expand, or is that not an issue? How much do you value your files? Are you going to do anything on it besides host files (other types of server, virtual machines, etc)? Are there space/power/heat limitations?

There are so many options for attaching more storage, it will spin your head. Helping to narrow down certain criteria will help limit the options substantially and make it much easier to choose. You do the same thing when you are buying a car -- you won't haul a lot of cargo, don't need to move more than 4 passengers and you like it to be a bit sporty. With those criteria, you can go find one that meets them. Do the exact same thing with this, it is the same procedure.

 

[Cant.Touch.This]

Thanks for the replies, I'll start off answering TiZakit's questions.

• Do you need speed?
• How valuable is the data?
• Do you need redundancy?
• What are you doing for backups?
• What is your budget?

1. I would prefer to have the benefits of a fast connection when I actually am transferring data back and forth. Although once the data is there, I don't see myself bringing it back into my own desktop, I would just run it off that disk I've stored it in.

2. The data is not VERY valuable. It's mostly media files I've accumulated over the years, I wouldn't want to lose my music however... that's something I find irreplaceable. I tried to choose my words carefully not using 'backup' as a priority, whether there is a distinction between backup storage and plain data storage.

3. Redundancy, as in mirrored storage? Well, I'm not entirely sure myself but if I were to go off what I answered in the previous question, perhaps not.

4. I'm not doing anything for backup honestly, at most I do simple backups where I store my most important files on a flash drive or on another disk within my system. My most important files being school reports/presentations.

5. My budget is hard to say, I'm looking up what Randyman... had purchase for his needs and it just doesn't seem like it's something for me or my wallet. I did expect somewhere in the mid-$200 range but again, I have no reference for how much I should expect to pay for my needs.

 

[TiZakit]

Awesome. I forgot to ask you, how much storage do you need?

 

[Cant.Touch.This]

Why Not get a larger case and store your drives in it? The main benefit of a NAS is the centralized nature. If you only need that data in one spot, why a NAS?

I do want something of a 'tabletop' storage, something small and enough to hold up to 4-disk drives. I would not want something to be on the floor that I have to move around constantly when I clean the room.

You and thideras reminded me of why I was looking towards NAS solutions, the centralized nature as you've said, I do have my sister's computer that I want access to this storage and my laptop as well. As for the streaming part, I had in mind NAS -> Router -> PS3. I'm not sure how exactly it would be done but I'm sure if I went down this route I'd figure everything out eventually.

 

[Cant.Touch.This]

Awesome. I forgot to ask you, how much storage do you need?

Well, for now I have in mind a single 3TB disk in addition to what I have - 3 x 640GB drives, the 2 are at full capacity with a few MBs to spare and my last one is ~7GB left.

EDIT: I'm clearing one of the drives out for junk that I've never gotten rid of... I actually freed up about 70GB! My problem here is deeper than I thought.. maybe I'm a data hoarder, lol.

 

[TiZakit]

I'd hate to see you lose all your data when that drive fails... perhaps you are best served with something like this?

http://www.microcenter.com/single_product_results.phtml?product_id=0363872

Slap two drives in there, and configure as RAID1. This way, your data is on both drives. One drive dies, you are still in good shape.

No RAID 4BAY USB/eSATA - Each drive will show up in my computer individually. However, you can always mount the drives as folders in the first, or possibly windows can do some sort of spanning/JBOD Windows Drive Spanning (No Redundancy - Lose one drive, lose all data)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817576001

Thats if you didn't want to do a NAS. With NAS, something like this - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822155020

4-bay NAS solutions are going to cost at least 300 bucks.

(Not sure if this link will work)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...40&IsNodeId=1&bop=And&Order=PRICE&PageSize=20

 

[Cant.Touch.This]

That D-Link NAS is what I was looking at before I decided to post my problems.

I have a few issues with something like that now that you've brought it up. Without actually going through the reviews again, I believe it was either this same D-Link or a Netgear NAS that used a proprietary file system which had horrible support for... do I not have a choice to what file system I want to run it as?

I've also bumped into an issue as of recent, I was completely unaware that the HFS file system on Mac OS could not write to NTFS natively. If I were to make a switch from a Windows machine accessing these storage drives, to a Mac OS machine accessing these storage drives... I would have to format these drives all over again (without the use of other software)?

EDIT: THe ACOM won't work because I'm using 3.5" disks though, lol. And yes, the last link to Newegg works.

Something like this looks interesting:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822219006

 

[TiZakit]

I'm not exactly clear on the MAC issues. I know there is a FUSE driver out there, but I can't get it running in 64bit OSX.

I can't see a proprietary filesystem. I'll go investigate the d-link thing for you though.

WAIT... Are we talking NAS or USB Enclosure now? I got myself confused.

If it was a NAS, there should be no filesystem issue.

 

[Cant.Touch.This]

NAS or DAS, I'm not too sure myself actually. I suppose we should stick to NAS for now... have options for NAS if I choose that road and then tackle external enclosures next?

 

[TiZakit]

I really have a hard time offering any more advice. I think you've tapped me out on knowledge here.

Only downside to the NAS for you is the network speed issue.

 

[Automata]

With a properly setup and working server, the speeds should be consistently faster than any local disk (outside of RAID). I can read/write to my server's array in Windows at 110+ MB/sec all day and it doesn't even flinch. The limitation at this point is the local hard drive and the network. The RAID array can do over 300 MB/sec.

The NAS vs DAS decision is pretty simple. If you only need to access it from one computer and needs to be cheap, DAS. If you are going to have a bunch of computer (>2) accessing data at the same time, you want to offload that to a server. A NAS (unless you are getting a pre-built one) is generally going to be more expensive. Building your own server is going to be the most expensive, but will offer the greatest performance and flexibility. Find me a NAS that can store 19 hard drives, be able to use SAS drives, run as many virtual machines/services that I do on it for a couple hundred dollars and I'll buy 5 from you.

 

[Cant.Touch.This]

In that case, I will focus my selection on DAS solutions. From what I've gathered in rour post, it doesn't seem like server solution is for me.. although what I have in mind of a server is not what you might be describing. I thought of a more simple access method where NAS is plugged into router and I'll be accessing the storage through some FTP that I set up with the NAS, something basic like that.

I actually never mentioned my router can do a basic USB storage, I have the WNDR3700 though I've only used it for connecting up a flash drive to share some documents between computers. The functionality is basic, just throwing that out there.