So Intel launches coffee lake on Monday.

[Vishera]

What do you guys think is gonna happen? They're finally making the i3 4c/4t, the i5 6c/6t, and the i7 6c/12t. With Intel's reputation for better single core performance, and the claims that coffee lake will be up to 50% better in multi threaded tasks then Kaby Lake... I'm honestly worried for AMD. They thought they caught Intel off guard but once again, it looks like Intel had something planned so they could hand them their collective asses. It kind of makes you wonder how long Intel has been sitting on coffee lake.

 

[mackerel]

We have to make some assumptions still. Ananadtech have verified as best they can that the leaked slide came from an Intel event. It is only partial information, and we should have a better picture on Monday. If I assume the new CPUs are substantially at the same pricing as current generation for the model number price point e.g. 8700k comes in same price as 7700k, there will be a more complicated performance judgement to be made. 8 slower cores or 6 faster ones (vs 1700). In the i5/1600 level it could come down to 6c6t at higher clock vs 6c12t at lower clock. I suspect the former would be better for gaming, but the latter would still take the lead in highly threaded tasks.

 

[Alaric]

I get the impression Intel is throwing chips and claims out the door willy nilly in the hope that something sticks somewhere. They have a ridiculous amount of CPUs at the moment. Some of which are redundant/useless. (7740x, anyone?) It's like they're trying to overwhelm the consumer with choices, hoping they can distract long enough to keep people from buying AMD. I suspect smoke and mirrors.

 

[Tír na nÓg]

I am with Vishera. As much I would have like to switch to AMD, the Coffee lake OC margin and the higher IPC killed my will to go to the red team.

The extra GHz and the higher IPC will compensate the 2 missing cores for multithreading and the single core performance will trounce Ryzen...

With Vega being a disappointment, it unfortunately doesn't look good for AMD.

Edit: my rig in sig scores 1400+ in CB [email protected], and it is already 3 gen old...

 

[batboy]

What do you guys think is gonna happen? They're finally making the i3 4c/4t, the i5 6c/6t, and the i7 6c/12t. With Intel's reputation for better single core performance, and the claims that coffee lake will be up to 50% better in multi threaded tasks then Kaby Lake... I'm honestly worried for AMD. They thought they caught Intel off guard but once again, it looks like Intel had something planned so they could hand them their collective asses. It kind of makes you wonder how long Intel has been sitting on coffee lake.

Please provide the source for where you found that Coffee Lake will be 50% better in multi-threaded tasks. The most I've seen was 20% in one benchmark.

Intel is counting on the upcoming die shrink to 10nm to pull ahead of AMD in this battle of the core wars. This same exact thing has happened before, Intel took longer than they planned to successfully to iron out the bugs in the upcoming die shrink and seemingly AMD "catches up" and starts giving Intel some competition. AMD fanboys rub their hands in glee and swear Intel is staggering and on the ropes. Once Cannon Lake arrives, you'll see Intel surge ahead again, no doubt in my mind.

But, what happens until then? Intel is getting bruised in the short term and losing a bit of market share, so they will answer just like they have done before (it's like deja vu all over again). They refreshed the current release (Kaby Lake) and tried to make a few improvements and make it look newish. The soon to be released Coffee Lake is closer to the Kaby Lake than maybe you think. Coffee Lake is purely a stopgap measure to fight and delay the AMD horde until reinforcements (Cannon Lake) arrive with big guns blazing.

As most of us here are performance computer guys, we look mainly at the fight at the top. But in the lower and middle part of the heap, the battle must also be fought and won, so Intel is added cores to the i3 and i5 (remember now, I said this is the core wars). Now, even Joe Sixpack can afford a quad core.

The thing is, 10nm Cannon Lake has been delayed again and is still a year away. The rumor has it there might be another refresh released after Coffee Lake and before Cannon Lake (maybe as soon as first quarter 2018). Kaby Lake version III (or whatever Intel will call this stepping) is again just a stopgap to hold off AMD until the die shrink. All this has happened at least twice before.

 

[mackerel]

The current reference point should be Skylake-S, as Kaby Lake was a mostly a process optimisation of that gaining a little extra performance per watt and no change to IPC. I'd be happy to be wrong and we do get a real IPC boost with Coffee Lake, but I'm not convinced it will be. I'm setting my expectations as Coffee Lake having same IPC again as Skylake, but we gain from increased clock and/or more cores. There remains a small bit of wiggle room with unknowns about what they're doing with cache, but I wouldn't expect it to bring a significant difference (compare Skylake-S with Skylake-X).

The 51% on multithread was claimed in the Intel slide, that has been verified by Anandtech as being from an Intel event in China. Doesn't mean the results are accurate, as they remain a non-public Intel marketing claim. It's not hard to imagine that 50% extra cores could lead to 50% extra performance, with good scaling tasks and if you can keep tabs on power.

 

[Tír na nÓg]

^ that makes perfect sense.

 

[Vishera]

I am with Vishera. As much I would have like to switch to AMD, the Coffee lake OC margin and the higher IPC killed my will to go to the red team.

The extra GHz and the higher IPC will compensate the 2 missing cores for multithreading and the single core performance will trounce Ryzen...

With Vega being a disappointment, it unfortunately doesn't look good for AMD.

Edit: my rig in sig scores 1400+ in CB [email protected], and it is already 3 gen old...

I'll still go with Ryzen because coffee lake i3s aren't supposed to be here until later this year or early 2018, and I'm getting impatient for my new build. But assuming they were going to release on Monday... I'd be going with coffee lake. Performance matters to me, and if the new i3s are in the same price bracket as Ryzen 3, maybe a little more expensive, I don't feel like AMD gives any compelling reason to leave that performance on the table.

 

[RGE]

The intel slide is here: http://cdn.wccftech.com/wp-content/...Core-i7-8700K-Core-i5-8600K-Core-i3-8350K.jpg

Intel is claiming 11% increase in single threaded performance from 7700k (4 core/8thread) to 8700k (6 core/12 thread) based on 1 benchmark, ie sysmark, and 51% multithreaded (expected given 50% more cores) on same benchmark.

As for the 11% increase in single threaded, have to wait until multiple benchmarks are run and take an average, then see if that 11% holds up or becomes 5% when averaging multiple benchmarks like other iterations.

 

[wingman99]

What do you guys think is gonna happen? They're finally making the i3 4c/4t, the i5 6c/6t, and the i7 6c/12t. With Intel's reputation for better single core performance, and the claims that coffee lake will be up to 50% better in multi threaded tasks then Kaby Lake... I'm honestly worried for AMD. They thought they caught Intel off guard but once again, it looks like Intel had something planned so they could hand them their collective asses. It kind of makes you wonder how long Intel has been sitting on coffee lake.

Usually Intel plans 4 years a head for the new products. There finishing up on Ice Lake now. Intel does not compete agents AMD, they compete with them selves.

 

[trents]

Usually Intel plans 4 years a head for the new products. There finishing up on Ice Lake now. Intel does not compete agents AMD, they compete with them selves.

Not sure if that is a good thing. Not the best motivation for product development and improvement. But until Ryzen it had been Inte's only motivation for some time.

 

[wingman99]

I can see coffee lake is just a paper launch.

So when is Coffee Lake on 14++ (or Cannon Lake) coming? Intel only stated that other members of the 8th Generation family (which contains Kaby Lake Refresh, Coffee Lake and Cannon Lake) are coming later this year. Desktop will come in the autumn, and additional products for enterprise, workstation and enthusiast notebooks will also happen. As for today's 8th Generation U-series announcement, Intel tells us that we should start seeing laptops using the new CPUs hit the market in September. http://www.anandtech.com/show/11738...tarting-with-kaby-lake-refresh-for-15w-mobile

 

[wingman99]

Looks like the Z270 is a dead socket. Intel box art confirms Coffee Lake CPUs will require a new motherboard http://www.pcgamer.com/intel-box-art-confirms-coffee-lake-cpus-will-require-a-new-motherboard/

 

[Alaric]

Oh, goody! Yet another Intel socket! LOL

LGA 2066

LGA 1151

LGA 2011-v3

LGA 1150

LGA 2011

LGA 1150

LGA 1156

LGA 1366

Socket 478

Socket 604

LGA 7

 

[Vishera]

Oh, goody! Yet another Intel socket! LOL

LGA 2066

LGA 1151

LGA 2011-v3

LGA 1150

LGA 2011

LGA 1150

LGA 1156

LGA 1366

Socket 478

Socket 604

LGA 7

I started on socket 478. Good ol' eMachines PC with a Celeron D 330 2.66GHz, a 120GB HDD later upgraded to 320GB, and 1GB of DDR RAM. Windows XP Home Edition. I still get nostalgia blasts from that logon jingle.

 

[SPL Tech]

boooooooo laptop CPUs!!!! blah, no one cares about that. Let's see the desktop CPUs!!!!! I want to see a solid 5 GHz on all six cores. Can it be done? Maybe 5.5 Ghz? That would be a reason to switch for sure.

 

[Vishera]

boooooooo laptop CPUs!!!! blah, no one cares about that. Let's see the desktop CPUs!!!!! I want to see a solid 5 GHz on all six cores. Can it be done? Maybe 5.5 Ghz? That would be a reason to switch for sure.

From what i understand, the more cores you have, the more unlikely achieving those high clocks becomes, with conventional cooling. The two extra cores and four extra threads in an i7 will create massive amounts of extra heat. The reason Intel was able to get quad cores so high is because they had more time to work with their CPUs. I'm sure they'll get six cores up there eventually, but probably not anytime soon.

Edit: Typos are fun.

 

[SPL Tech]

Fun what i understand, the more cores you have, the more unlikely achieving those high clocks becomes, with conventional cooling. The two extra cores and four extra threads in an i7 will create massive amounts of extra heat. The reason Intel was able to get quad cores so high is because they had to time to work with their CPUs. I'm sure they'll get six cores up there eventually, but privacy not anytime soon.

Well that seems useless then. What applications out there are written to take advantage of 8 cores and 16 threads? Unless you're encoding video while playing a game, the extra cores dont seem like they would matter much. That is unless modern games can use all eight cores now. At best maybe they can use four and all the background processes can use the remaining two.

 

[Vishera]

Well that seems useless then. What applications out there are written to take advantage of 8 cores and 16 threads? Unless you're encoding video while playing a game, the extra cores dont seem like they would matter much. That is unless modern games can use all eight cores now. At best maybe they can use four and all the background processes can use the remaining two.

Everybody talks crap about AMD and how they're foolish for trying to mainstream more cores before they're needed, because that means they need lower clocks and games rely heavily on high clocks for performance. But the reality is, six cores will eventually phase out four cores. Sure, it'll be a very long time from now, probably not within the next decade, but AMD getting us used to those lower clocks now will make it less of a shock later, making it easier to sell those multi core CPUs when they're actually needed. And it also gives them time to find ways to get six and eventually eight core CPUs up to those high clocks before they're needed, and then uh oh! Games perform worse because of the lower clocks and four cores isn't an option.

 

[wingman99]

Everybody talks crap about AMD and how they're foolish for trying to mainstream more cores before they're needed, because that means they need lower clocks and games rely heavily on high clocks for performance. But the reality is, six cores will eventually phase out four cores. Sure, it'll be a very long time from now, probably not within the next decade, but AMD getting us used to those lower clocks now will make it less of a shock later, making it easier to sell those multi core CPUs when they're actually needed. And it also gives them time to find ways to get six and eventually eight core CPUs up to those high clocks before they're needed, and then uh oh! Games perform worse because of the lower clocks and four cores isn't an option.

I don't think Intel can get around High clock speed and more than 4 cores without soldering IHS. It just makes to much heat that can't be rejected fast enough.