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System and Boot Optimization

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OP
raven

raven

Member
Joined
Sep 11, 2002
Location
Toronto
i downloaded the latest update pack from ryan's site but its saved as a 7z or winrar file and i dont know what to do arg, help please.
Those are archive formats. (eg, .zip). Download a trial of --Winrar-- or --7zip-- if you want to unzip them.

As for ryanVM's update pack, you will be integrating it into your Windows xp install. Just follow the instructions --Here-- or --Here--, depending on if you are using nlite or RyanVM integrator, and you will be prompted to select the pack in one of the steps. That will integrate any post SP3 updates into your installation image so that you can have all updates already installed once you reformat.
 

Neuromancer

Member
Joined
Oct 11, 2005
Location
Tau'ri
Hey sorry I missed your reply to my post.

I was a little miffed that day apparently.. no offense intended. mainly I was annoyed that such information was made a sticky on this site, not that you went to the trouble of promoting nLite which gets enough bad attention on its own.

So I will try a point by point (if I miss something I apologize)

hiberfil.sys

"Though say someone does utilize Hibernation, would you or anyone else know of a way to point the hiberfil.sys file to a different partition or drive?"

Not sure why you would want to or need to do this... restoring from hibernation.. you are not going to be reading from that fil.. so HDD performacne would not come into it. (Its going from the HDD to ram, not alternating from running the OS and moving from same hdd to ram) from a pure space standpoint, I could see a reason for this. Your OS drive should be the fastest drive in your PC though... so from that point... no. A 15 second google does not reveal anything, if I really really wanted to I guess I could open regedit and search for hiberfil.sys and look for one that says %windir% and change the location.. but why? too much work.




as for "controlling install programs"

I am sorry you did not know that no geek uses msconfig to optimize windows. Why? MAny reasons, I will try and address them. (Good research before you create an optimization guide)

Most software has a "do not run at startup" option. Then again, most software also includes options out of google toolbar or yahoo software or whatever and look how popular that garbage is ;)

I could make a long post but there are enough out there I do not need to Here is just one

nuff said

Installing anything to "make windows faster" is 99.9% marketing gimmick. Why would you need to make windows bigger to make it leaner? Makes no sense to me, seems to make much more sense to simply learn how to monitor things and control them. There actually may be software out there that does it... but it is few and far between, O&O defrag software was one of those I mentioned before. It replaces windwos defragger and is a nice small utility that works well.

I personally like to optimize windows by uninstalling uneccesary windows compnents after I install windows (takes approximately 30 seconds), disable system restore, and hibernation. Run o&o defrag software, image the hdd and reimage the hdd.

This packs everything needed right at the gbeginning of the hdd.



Now why does nLite epic fail?

Mainly because people use it to strip windows components and install updates.

Windows has a means of slipstreaming already, for service packs. There is a reason for this.

If you install update A,B and C and then restart and install update D,E and F.. . it works. If you nLite it, you do not get that restart that lets update C run and change file 123 to 234. so when update D comes along and changes file 345 that calls 234... it causes a problem. I am sure a lot of that has been worked out, but I tried for over a year to get nLite to work properly, it never matched a manual unattended install disk that had no updates except service packs (and slipstreaming service packs is SO easy to do, and slipstreaming sp3 is the #1 best way to improve performance). I have yet to have seen a 100% stable nLite install.

You really want a nice XP install? Try Windows Fundamentals. Man that OS just freaking sings... sigh only available to MSDN subscribers. and not worth the 1000 dollars a year for it. Would be awesome if they sold it. Makes my 750MHz duron HTPC FLY.

I got a lot of beefs with bad info (88 series IQ, Vista vs WinME, etc etc) if someone made a sticky of them I would have to point it out too. (Heck sometimes I do anyway ;)) No offense meant for you, you did a good job with the best knowledge you had at the time. If this was just a thread I would have stayed out of it. They made it a sticky, so information must be shared.

Optimization guides are double edged, if you are so "not geek" enough to need one? You really should not use one either.


Also and this is arguably arguable (heh heh)...

Move the Pagefile, TMP, TEMP and Temporary internet Files to a secondary hdd. These are the most commonly accessed folders, so without access defragramention, movingthem to another HDD can actuallyreduce the bottle neck that is the modern storage system :)


Also saw no mention of installtion monitoring programs. If you install and unsintall at all.. (I dont I reformat every few months for XP and once a year for Vista) then a program that monitors installions and completely removes them on uninstalltion is probably the best performacne enhancer you can mention. I will leave you to research and recommend them., I prefer the old format /C:


EDIT: You should not do anything to your system that you do not understand. THAT is the biggest performance boost of all. :) Knowledge is more important then installing or uninstalling programs.

HW selection is as important to boot performacne as anytihng else. Ihave yet to meet a system that beat my A3200 64bit winny, on a k8t800 chipset beat my 20 second boottime or for that matter my 35ns memory latency. Without ridiculous LN2 overclocking. (wish I still had it *sigh* best desktop OS PC I ever had)
 
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Neuromancer

Member
Joined
Oct 11, 2005
Location
Tau'ri
and now it make sence to me, i wasted a full day i could have used to reinstall windows.

If you slip stream SP3 there is supposed to be a perfomrance boost.

Personally I would not use nLite to do it.

Thurott gives this description For slipstreaming it.

It looks like it he has added some extra steps.. its much easier

DL the big file rename it to sp3.exe (save to C:\)

copy your XP cd to C:\XPCD

open dos prompt and navigate to C:\

type

sp3.exe /integrate:C:\XPCD

DL the CDIMAGE GUI from msfn it installs to C:\cdimage

everything is set by default if you followed my directions exactly. It will see the new integrated XPCD folder and grab it and make a bootable ISO out of it. and save it as C:\XPCD.iso or something. just move to the option to create disk and select it.. you can rename it and all that stuffin the options. No point though.. you are going to mark the cover right?

(obviously will have trouble in Vista since it wants to drop a file in root) if you want to experiment it will let you designate stuff in the program, no need to though for XP...


I have not tried /integrate or cdimage with Vista

EDIT: to do this in x64 you have to be in x64 and vica versa
 
OP
raven

raven

Member
Joined
Sep 11, 2002
Location
Toronto
Hey sorry I missed your reply to my post.

I was a little miffed that day apparently.. no offense intended. mainly I was annoyed that such information was made a sticky on this site, not that you went to the trouble of promoting nLite which gets enough bad attention on its own.

So I will try a point by point (if I miss something I apologize)

hiberfil.sys

"Though say someone does utilize Hibernation, would you or anyone else know of a way to point the hiberfil.sys file to a different partition or drive?"

Not sure why you would want to or need to do this... restoring from hibernation.. you are not going to be reading from that fil.. so HDD performacne would not come into it. (Its going from the HDD to ram, not alternating from running the OS and moving from same hdd to ram) from a pure space standpoint, I could see a reason for this. Your OS drive should be the fastest drive in your PC though... so from that point... no. A 15 second google does not reveal anything, if I really really wanted to I guess I could open regedit and search for hiberfil.sys and look for one that says %windir% and change the location.. but why? too much work.




as for "controlling install programs"

I am sorry you did not know that no geek uses msconfig to optimize windows. Why? MAny reasons, I will try and address them. (Good research before you create an optimization guide)

Most software has a "do not run at startup" option. Then again, most software also includes options out of google toolbar or yahoo software or whatever and look how popular that garbage is ;)

I could make a long post but there are enough out there I do not need to Here is just one

nuff said

Installing anything to "make windows faster" is 99.9% marketing gimmick. Why would you need to make windows bigger to make it leaner? Makes no sense to me, seems to make much more sense to simply learn how to monitor things and control them. There actually may be software out there that does it... but it is few and far between, O&O defrag software was one of those I mentioned before. It replaces windwos defragger and is a nice small utility that works well.

I personally like to optimize windows by uninstalling uneccesary windows compnents after I install windows (takes approximately 30 seconds), disable system restore, and hibernation. Run o&o defrag software, image the hdd and reimage the hdd.

This packs everything needed right at the gbeginning of the hdd.



Now why does nLite epic fail?

Mainly because people use it to strip windows components and install updates.

Windows has a means of slipstreaming already, for service packs. There is a reason for this.

If you install update A,B and C and then restart and install update D,E and F.. . it works. If you nLite it, you do not get that restart that lets update C run and change file 123 to 234. so when update D comes along and changes file 345 that calls 234... it causes a problem. I am sure a lot of that has been worked out, but I tried for over a year to get nLite to work properly, it never matched a manual unattended install disk that had no updates except service packs (and slipstreaming service packs is SO easy to do, and slipstreaming sp3 is the #1 best way to improve performance). I have yet to have seen a 100% stable nLite install.

You really want a nice XP install? Try Windows Fundamentals. Man that OS just freaking sings... sigh only available to MSDN subscribers. and not worth the 1000 dollars a year for it. Would be awesome if they sold it. Makes my 750MHz duron HTPC FLY.

I got a lot of beefs with bad info (88 series IQ, Vista vs WinME, etc etc) if someone made a sticky of them I would have to point it out too. (Heck sometimes I do anyway ;)) No offense meant for you, you did a good job with the best knowledge you had at the time. If this was just a thread I would have stayed out of it. They made it a sticky, so information must be shared.

Optimization guides are double edged, if you are so "not geek" enough to need one? You really should not use one either.


Also and this is arguably arguable (heh heh)...

Move the Pagefile, TMP, TEMP and Temporary internet Files to a secondary hdd. These are the most commonly accessed folders, so without access defragramention, movingthem to another HDD can actuallyreduce the bottle neck that is the modern storage system :)


Also saw no mention of installtion monitoring programs. If you install and unsintall at all.. (I dont I reformat every few months for XP and once a year for Vista) then a program that monitors installions and completely removes them on uninstalltion is probably the best performacne enhancer you can mention. I will leave you to research and recommend them., I prefer the old format /C:


EDIT: You should not do anything to your system that you do not understand. THAT is the biggest performance boost of all. :) Knowledge is more important then installing or uninstalling programs.

HW selection is as important to boot performacne as anytihng else. Ihave yet to meet a system that beat my A3200 64bit winny, on a k8t800 chipset beat my 20 second boottime or for that matter my 35ns memory latency. Without ridiculous LN2 overclocking. (wish I still had it *sigh* best desktop OS PC I ever had)

Neur0mancer, I appreciate all the info that you have provided. It does provide for an interesting read and makes some good arguments, but I don’t think that you are seeing the big picture here.

First of all, in your previous post you had mentioned that “but mentions nothing of diabling Hibernate mode, which is a big ole waste of 2 GB of space on your Hdd.” And now you are changing your argument by saying that it shouldn’t be moved? Please, when offering advice, try to stick with one thing and not move back and forth between views, it just gets everyone confused. I had never mentioned anything about reading from that file nor restoring from it. Though, if a person does not use the hibernation file, it would be best to disable it as it just takes up unused space; space that could have been used to store files side by side instead of from before the hibernation file to after it. By keeping files contiguous, you reduce the time it takes the HD to seek for them, therefore improving performance.

As for msconfig, you do make a good point. I have personally started to use Autoruns these past few months as it has taken care of most of my start up programs. I will add your link to major geeks and their link to MS on why not to use ‘msconfig’ so that everyone has a chance to read it.

On “Installing anything to "make windows faster" is 99.9% marketing gimmick”, again, you have not done your research on Codestuff Starter. No where in this thread have I stated that you have to ‘Install’ this program, but just run it. It comes in an executable file which has no need for installation. Just like Autoruns, no installation needed, no added system junk. So please, before you decide to bash, have a run through of the suggestions yourself before calling it a gimmick.

On to defragmenting programs.. I am not sure as to what you are trying to prove here? Are you saying that the only defragmenting program that is worth looking at is O&O? Because if you are dismissing every other defragmenter without giving it a shot for yourself, or for considering people’s budget constraints or the type of system that they run, then you do still have a lot to learn about why people continue to create competing software.

If you could explain how you uninstall unnecessary windows components in 30 seconds after a windows install, I’m sure that would help anyone reading this guide. I find it a good idea to have everything packed together, and if you could also explain why and how imaging a hdd and then reimaging helps pack everything together, I’m sure many of us would appreciate the lesson. Also, please explain how imaging and then reimaging adds to performance over just defragmenting and putting all files in a contiguous block.

As for your nLite remark and the rest of your post, I will give my opinion on it in a few days as I’m somewhat busy with New Years planning atm.


In the mean time, please link to current discussions on how nLite messes up integration with RyanVM's Post SP3 pack as you stated in your post, as I am curious to see what others have to say about it and if true, why it hasn't been resolved yet. Because personally, I haven't come across any of these issues in the two years that I have been using nLite.
 
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Neuromancer

Member
Joined
Oct 11, 2005
Location
Tau'ri
Neur0mancer, I appreciate all the info that you have provided. It does provide for an interesting read and makes some good arguments, but I don’t think that you are seeing the big picture here.

First of all, in your previous post you had mentioned that “but mentions nothing of diabling Hibernate mode, which is a big ole waste of 2 GB of space on your Hdd.” And now you are changing your argument by saying that it shouldn’t be moved? Please, when offering advice, try to stick with one thing and not move back and forth between views, it just gets everyone confused. I had never mentioned anything about reading from that file nor restoring from it. Though, if a person does not use the hibernation file, it would be best to disable it as it just takes up unused space; space that could have been used to store files side by side instead of from before the hibernation file to after it. By keeping files contiguous, you reduce the time it takes the HD to seek for them, therefore improving performance.

As for msconfig, you do make a good point. I have personally started to use Autoruns these past few months as it has taken care of most of my start up programs. I will add your link to major geeks and their link to MS on why not to use ‘msconfig’ so that everyone has a chance to read it.

On “Installing anything to "make windows faster" is 99.9% marketing gimmick”, again, you have not done your research on Codestuff Starter. No where in this thread have I stated that you have to ‘Install’ this program, but just run it. It comes in an executable file which has no need for installation. Just like Autoruns, no installation needed, no added system junk. So please, before you decide to bash, have a run through of the suggestions yourself before calling it a gimmick.

On to defragmenting programs.. I am not sure as to what you are trying to prove here? Are you saying that the only defragmenting program that is worth looking at is O&O? Because if you are dismissing every other defragmenter without giving it a shot for yourself, or for considering people’s budget constraints or the type of system that they run, then you do still have a lot to learn about why people continue to create competing software.

If you could explain how you uninstall unnecessary windows components in 30 seconds after a windows install, I’m sure that would help anyone reading this guide. I find it a good idea to have everything packed together, and if you could also explain why and how imaging a hdd and then reimaging helps pack everything together, I’m sure many of us would appreciate the lesson. Also, please explain how imaging and then reimaging adds to performance over just defragmenting and putting all files in a contiguous block.

As for your nLite remark and the rest of your post, I will give my opinion on it in a few days as I’m somewhat busy with New Years planning atm.


In the mean time, please link to current discussions on how nLite messes up integration with RyanVM's Post SP3 pack as you stated in your post, as I am curious to see what others have to say about it and if true, why it hasn't been resolved yet. Because personally, I haven't come across any of these issues in the two years that I have been using nLite.

1)Okay as per my original post that was a little unclear.. I never suggested moving hiberfil, I was impllying to disable. I was responding to your quote of my post that asked about moving it. That is why I mentioned no need to move it IF YOU NEED IT ENABLED.

2) You are right I have not checked out the software you linked too. I have tried out so many optimization softwares that do absolutely nothing, I just assumed it was more of the same. I think some benchmarks are in order. This thread should not be a sticky without proof. Feel free to post any benchmarks to prove me wrong in anything I state. I would be happy to learn that these simple things you mention optimize anything that commonsense does not already improve on :)

3)I apologize if I came across as saying no other defrag programs were any good. There are some I am sure. After finding O&O I stopped looking. If there is a freeware alternative that can defrag a 40% fragemented drive (80GB) in 20 minutes thats is free.. so be it. By al lmeans people should use it.. Really that should be put in the freeware apps sticky and mentioned in a real optimiaztion thread.

4) uninstalling windows apps is simple.. start your computer. Open control panel add/remove programs. add/remove windows components. uncheck the things you do not want installed. select OK. The only one I know that belies this rule in XP was windows messenger. That is simple to not have rtun though too. Open it up. Optionis, select do not run at startup and do not run in background, and start minimized. (these last 2 mean, if it starts it does not run LOL, because it can not run minimized ;))

Anywho

Feel free to support nLite. I will happily say that people can use it ifthey want to. My experience after a year of differnet versions always led to a corrupted OS within a month. (usually within a week) Last time I used it vlite was around the corner so it was a while ago..

If people want to use it.. that is their thing.. I just want to warn people of the possible drawbacks.

I do appreciate the effort you put into this thread, so thank you for that. I just do not think this is sticky material.


EDIT: INSTALLING the no need to install program you recommended now, and am testing it out. bRB gotta restart to test it out
 
Last edited:

Neuromancer

Member
Joined
Oct 11, 2005
Location
Tau'ri
Okay installed that startup program... and in my estimation.. its a msconfig gui..

one program removed

Pre running shot of msconfig

run it and

Lolly.. nm it shows some stuff that we cant discuss on OCF. ;) I will however share the images with those that ask, aside from in this thread ;) Especially OP (IE pm me or IM me, no thread links will be provided) Maybe when less drunk I will just blank out some stuff and repost the images ;)

It did uninstall programs from the list, but did not list everything that msconfig lists...


There are 3 startup entries in the registry.. and 2 registry entries for nonstartup in msconfig. Those programs were already disabled in msconfig (not by me, this aint my PC) yet this simple startup configurator could not fix them :? (not to mention skips a program that msconfig lists as blank.. which a google search easily checksout...)


I would appreciate more testing of this program though.. maybe if nothing else.. they can fix it, and not make it just a new face for msconfig.

EDIT EDIT: Just saw you mentioned in full page prolouge, Viper services. Really not a good thing. In XP there is very little that can be disabled that improves performance, and in Vista only 1 thing can be disabled that improves perf. (registry edits are available but no mention of them) However most "tweakers" live by this and it deserves more of a mention other then "I saw the site"

I would have helped you, but some person on this site jumped the gun because you made a nice prolouge about how OCF rocks, and got yourself a sticky, despite the fact that 90% of your post is wasted words and the other 10% is debateably wrong.

Dunno who did that, but they need to be examined more than you do. I repeat, YOU made a nice 'post'. It was just not sticky material.. Maybe if it was thread and got community input first and got fixed up and tweaked then it could be upgraded and made a sticky. Really best to have a post, and test it out on everyone and get feedback before making something a sticky.
 
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OP
raven

raven

Member
Joined
Sep 11, 2002
Location
Toronto
I do appreciate the effort you put into this thread, so thank you for that. I just do not think this is sticky material.
Hey, no worries.. Everyone is entitled to their opinion. It is good that you are bringing up these points as I am sure that you are not the only who has these questions. I am more than happy to go over point by point to support my position, and if any more info or proof is needed, I would be more than happy to provide and discuss it.

But unfortunately I have the task of preaching to people who have already been influenced by past experience. Like Vista and how people still think that it is still extremely buggy and unreliable. Things change over time, improvements are made, and I would have hoped that experienced users wouldn't be so quick to judge based on 2 year old evidence that a process was buggy. But if the past teaches you anything, it is that it is hard to gain back support after a screw up if you don't have an open mind.

Even your buddy --Thurrott-- suggests to use nLite as a more automated install method if you are looking for a non Microsoft developed method (in the right hand column under Slipstreaming Alternative) of Slipstreaming. And my position is just that; to provide a source of information for users who are interested in optimizing their own system. Since I have not run my own graphed out benchmarks, the best that I can do is share my personal experience with others. I can honestly say that by following the steps that I have outlined in my original post, Windows has become snappier, quicker, more responsive, and lasts much longer this way compared to the traditional way of reformatting (popping in the MS cd, installing, and then downloading all updates etc).

All I ask of people is that if they are going to disagree with one or more of my points, link to current and valid sources. As you did with msconfig, I will be revising my post accordingly. I am open to any and all criticism and suggestions and I am more than happy to go 12 rounds with anyone discussing their thoughts. This is what I expect a forum to be; a share of wealth and knowledge. Not one person knows everything there is to know about computers, and so the more individuals we have participating, the more we can get accomplished.
 

HavsCritiria

Registered
Joined
Aug 30, 2008
Location
Lauderhill, Fl
GREAT POST, I was writing a guide just like this one! everything stated in mine is in this one. Looks like i wont need to post mine after all, great post!!!
 

Jacquel

Registered
Joined
Apr 30, 2006
I downloaded the Codestuff Starter and got a virus warning from COMODO. Just a heads up.