Zen is coming... so what do we know?

So... here's some stuff I found on the new rumored Architecture.

http://www.bit-tech.net/news/hardware/2014/09/11/amd-zen/1
http://www.kitguru.net/components/c...me-changer-but-next-gen-zen-x86-core-will-be/

Just a few of them. No idea where we are going.

I'd like to see AMD come back full bore and show some phenominal performance, steal some market share, or heck just give intel a reason to keep on it's toes.

What do you guys think, can AMD ever really get back in the game or where do you think they are really going?

Honest tetrall I hope for the best and plan for the worst. AMD has been good at one thing over the last 4 years and that's the PR end of things. I agree we "need" something not just good but great from AMD soon or the market will be forever INTEL. AMD is losing customers continuously lately because of the lack of performance or something new for people to sink their teeth into. It'll have to be great just to get the loyal customers back and really really great to sway the Intel crowd to switch.
So when it comes to "ZEN" all I can do is wait and see. Don't buy into the hype, it's 2 years away yet and a lot can happen in that time.

Johan45 said:

Honest tetrall I hope for the best and plan for the worst. AMD has been good at one thing over the last 4 years and that's the PR end of things. I agree we "need" something not just good but great from AMD soon or the market will be forever INTEL. AMD is losing customers continuously lately because of the lack of performance or something new for people to sink their teeth into. It'll have to be great just to get the loyal customers back and really really great to sway the Intel crowd to switch.
So when it comes to "ZEN" all I can do is wait and see. Don't buy into the hype, it's 2 years away yet and a lot can happen in that time.

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Roger that.

I like AMD, but not for the reasons that most folks would think. I'm very against monopoly, it really stifles creativity and innovation.

It's nice to have somewhere else to make a purchase other than crawling to Intel. I like apple for the same reason in the microsoft/apple wars, simply because it forced them both to preform.

I'm not against Intel, in fact, I've owned a lot of their products and I've loved them... but if there's one thing I do know it's human nature and if a human can be lazy with no consequences, well... he will be, and a company is just a lot of humans working together.

You're right on the money there. The other downside will be pricing. With no competition they can ask what they want and you have no option.

http://www.extremetech.com/gaming/190026-amd-ceo-just-laid-out-companys-two-year-roadmap

Before diving into Read’s remarks, I think it’s important to address the fundamental difference between how a lot of AMD’s historic fans see the company versus the direction AMD is now charting. The enthusiast community has a long tradition of viewing AMD’s performance through Intel and Nvidia-specific lenses. There’s nothing wrong with this, as such, but it misses a critical fact: when Rory Read took over as CEO of AMD, that narrow focus, combined with multiple execution problems, had nearly killed the company.

AMD still cares about its traditional markets, but they aren’t driving the entire structure anymore. Going forward, AMD believes embedded computing, dense servers, high-performance GPUs, and professional graphics are just as important to its profitability. Read’s goal is to move AMD away from a model where the company relied upon lightning in a bottle strategy and only turned a profit two years out of eight.

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I'm calling it: the next processing architecture (zen) will have dramatically improved performance per watt. I know that Jim Keller is back from apple, and he's been back for over a year. He's proven his (modern) expertise with apple's fantastic a7 and a8 SOCs (the a8 is an evolution of the a7), so I think he's ready to rock.

I know AMD has fallen down hard, and have failed to deliver on our expectations. But...

I expect 20-30% better ipc at 2/3s the power draw... and 6 cores on the best chips.

I've got a feeling.

As much as I hate to say it, I really don't see them pushing much on the high end for us. I'm thinking they'll continue to have some fantastic gains in the FM series, and make an extra push towards laptop hardware.

Well.... I think they did specifically say that they're making a new high-end chip. I think this is their strategy:
Build new architecture. Make it scale well in clock speed both ways.
Use few cores in the APUs. Further HSA development. It really might be the future, since Intel is making a version of it for their iGPUs too. That makes it ubiquitous.
Use more cores in the high end chips. That keeps it fairly simple for them, as far as the fabs are concerned. It's not a huge difference from the APUs, it's just erasing the gpu side, and replacing it with the rest of the cores.

It's similar to what Intel is doing, but without the amazing markups for the high core count chips.

I doubt you missed the 'real deal' by even 3% there "johan". AMD's best most spectacular results have been in the area of HYPE. I am certain AMD knows that HIPO users are not moving to AMD APUs but leaving AMD completely to go to Intel. It costs little to hype the future two years down the road. I can remember where in the space of two years Intel would release 2 or 3 platforms and AMD following closely. Two years is a freeken lifetime in computerdom.

I expect Intel is leaping for joy that AMD has faltered. Now Intel does not have to rush to bring faster to the arena with the heat problems they have when their own smaller fab is pushed. I expect that overclocking as we have known it is just on the way out. I can remember when soldering was a necessary skill to overclock, Then DFI began to insert overclocking into the bios and the whole overclocking world changed. Everyone thought they were overclockers. To some extent such was true.

All things tend to have a season. Season of living and season of dying. The run on overclocking as we have known it for about a decade is likely on the way out for many. Hobbies will have to change. It has been a fun run for sure, but all things cycle in an out. The overclock hobby seems cycling out as we have known it for 10 years or so.

We used to say a year in computerdom was like a decade in other parts of life and two years will seem a lifetime to many. In just the last year since the Vishera was released there have been many right in this forum that have gone Intel. I expect of our small 2% of the computer market that 25% have gone Intel from AMD. In a small market segment that is a lot of moves.

In this volatile world we live in, there is no telling which way the wind will be blowing in two years. I have a couple of very good FX 8 core processors and at least two DIY water loops for use on them for solid 4.8Ghz daily use, so I am in good shape. If I need to play I can buy cheap arse AMD cpus and clock them for funzies or clock my cellphone. Hehehe.
RGone...ster.

Johan45 said:

Honest tetrall I hope for the best and plan for the worst. AMD has been good at one thing over the last 4 years and that's the PR end of things. I agree we "need" something not just good but great from AMD soon or the market will be forever INTEL. AMD is losing customers continuously lately because of the lack of performance or something new for people to sink their teeth into. It'll have to be great just to get the loyal customers back and really really great to sway the Intel crowd to switch.
So when it comes to "ZEN" all I can do is wait and see. Don't buy into the hype, it's 2 years away yet and a lot can happen in that time.

Click to expand...

rescuetoaster said:

As much as I hate to say it, I really don't see them pushing much on the high end for us. I'm thinking they'll continue to have some fantastic gains in the FM series, and make an extra push towards laptop hardware.

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Maybe, but even laptops seem to be on the way out in favor of tablets and other small mobile devices that are appealing to those with younger eyes.

trents said:

those with younger eyes.

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I hear you there 'trents'. Hehehe.
RGone...

Small mobile devices that are sealed shut........ Even worse.........

chrisjames61 said:

Small mobile devices that are sealed shut........ Even worse.........

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Pure consumption devices, bleah.

I used to be like that as a younger man, but anymore I wanna be able to get into the guts of my computer and really understand it.

I think as the younger generation gets older, they will make the conversion.

Take heart gentlemen, I don't think the computer is done quite yet! There's a lot that can change in a short amount of time, and as we all know in the world of technology, wait six months and nine times out of ten, there's something better or cheaper.

Gotta get the pep back!

i'll believe it when i see it. untill then i'll be buying a 8350 and a another broad since my 9370 and sabertooth dont like to overclock very well

cmatties said:

i'll believe it when i see it. untill then i'll be buying a 8350 and a another broad since my 9370 and sabertooth dont like to overclock very well

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Haven't seen you talking about that overclock much lately but you have to remember that the 9370 is already overclocked 400 and 700Mhz beyond the FX-8350. This by default speed as the FX-9370 is sold. So it really depends on what you think an FX-8350 will overclock with stability for daily use. About 4.8Ghz with d*mn good cooling.

"johan45" has a crappy FX-8350 if he did not kill it a while ago, cannot remember if it was it or another cpu that bit the dust. But his FX-9370 bought just as they came to REtail was one of only maybe 3 that he and I could find around that would clock like his personal 9370. On winter water, he went to 5.999GHz with his FX-9370 on his Sabertooth 990FX R2.0 board. So seriously I doubt it is the mobo. He uses early early bios all the time says it clocks better. He went thru 'some' ram to get some that played with his IMC well to run the bigger numbers.

I have three FX-8350s here and one is a fair but not super clocker. One will do 2 hours of P95 Blend mode stable on DIY water @5.2Ghz. The other one I have not run yet and it is used so no telling how it will play with my parts. It is rumored to be a very good cpu but the previous owner went thru about 8 or 9 FX-8350s to get one like this one is hoped to be.

So just beginning at 4.0Ghz instead of 4.4Ghz for the 9370 and 4.7Ghz for the 9590 will seem a good overclock for the FX-8350 but there are many that have gotten FX-8350s lately that would not do daily but 4.5Ghz and the guy who had the last 8350 I got bought one that 1.7V would not budge that FX-8350 one Mhz over 4.8Ghz. So it is getting really iffy with the lesser 8 core FX processors since AMD began to sell at retail the higher clocked 9370 and 9590. Now you know what we have seen trend wise since we stay here day in and day out. YMMV.
RGone...ster.

RGone said:

Haven't seen you talking about that overclock much lately but you have to remember that the 9370 is already overclocked 400 and 700Mhz beyond the FX-8350. This by default speed as the FX-9370 is sold. So it really depends on what you think an FX-8350 will overclock with stability for daily use. About 4.8Ghz with d*mn good cooling.

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yea been busy with work and a new daughter. so haven't had much time.

cmatties said:

yea been busy with work and a new daughter. so haven't had much time.

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CONGRATULATIONS on the new family member.
RGone...

RGone said:

"johan45" has a crappy FX-8350 if he did not kill it a while ago, cannot remember if it was it or another cpu that bit the dust.Actually I did kill two at the time and the 8350 was one of them. But his FX-9370 bought just as they came to REtail was one of only maybe 3 that he and I could find around that would clock like his personal 9370. On winter water, he went to 5.999GHz only off by 0.2 I did crack 6GHz http://valid.canardpc.com/2hwhtk with his FX-9370 on his Sabertooth 990FX R2.0 board. So seriously I doubt it is the mobo. He uses early early bios all the time says it clocks better. He went thru 'some' ram to get some that played with his IMC well to run the bigger numbers.

I have three FX-8350s here and one is a fair but not super clocker. One will do 2 hours of P95 Blend mode stable on DIY water @5.2Ghz. The other one I have not run yet and it is used so no telling how it will play with my parts. It is rumored to be a very good cpu but the previous owner went thru about 8 or 9 FX-8350s to get one like this one is hoped to be.

So just beginning at 4.0Ghz instead of 4.4Ghz for the 9370 and 4.7Ghz for the 9590 will seem a good overclock for the FX-8350 but there are many that have gotten FX-8350s lately that would not do daily but 4.5Ghz and the guy who had the last 8350 I got bought one that 1.7V would not budge that FX-8350 one Mhz over 4.8Ghz. So it is getting really iffy with the lesser 8 core FX processors since AMD began to sell at retail the higher clocked 9370 and 9590. Now you know what we have seen trend wise since we stay here day in and day out. YMMV.
RGone...ster.

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You're right on the money there RGone with the trend. It's getting harder and harder all the time to pin down a good clocking 8350. The Sabertooth is a great board it's just that since I've had the CHV-z I haven't used it too much. The CHV is always just ready to swap back onto the bench. I did get up to 5700 on the Saber for a validation with the 8350 http://valid.canardpc.com/vwlzfy that was before I knew what I was doing cause I have Spi benches at 5800+. But I haven't seen too many of those except from Manny his clocks as well. That's not a Sabertooth though. either way that's a great board I think the key for sucess cmatties is cooling.

Thanks for filling in those blanks "johan". I was off a little but not too much on your good exploits.

Honestly, I would not trade my CHV for a Sabertooth 990FX 2.0 or the original version. But that is because I bought the CHV first and see no reason to change. But if one is not going to put rads out in the snow or DICE it or LN2 or LHE then the Sabertooth is for sure plenty to handle normal water cooling or air cooling.

I fully agree the biggest influence on the outcome of an overclock is the cooling and seemingly, also today, is the g00dness of the silicon itself. It is just getting difficult to do a cpu dice roll as time has gone bye. It is always that way in buying cpus anyway. The longer they remain they can stagnate as the binning is accomplished.
RGone...

So "Zen" is the rumored new architecture eh?
If it's priced right and preforms better than what similar price Intel's do, I'll hop over to the "dark side" and build AMD.

I hope it's a winner. I'm an Intel guy, but man AMD is the competitor, and Intel needs some competition.