Can i PLEASE get some information on dimensions of the WW..?

Excelsior · May 5, 2003

Hey

I have shot cathar a pm a few days ago and didnt get a response...

I would like to know how wide the micro channels are, how tall they are, how tall the total base plate is, and how thich is the base plate at its thinnest point (From the bottom of a channel).

Help is appriciated.. Thanks

Excelsior

nikhsub1 · May 5, 2003

xX~EXCELSIOR~Xx said:
Hey

I have shot cathar a pm a few days ago and didnt get a response...

I would like to know how wide the micro channels are, how tall they are, how tall the total base plate is, and how thich is the base plate at its thinnest point (From the bottom of a channel).

Help is appriciated.. Thanks

Excelsior

He wont give you all that info... Sort of proprietary. I can tell you that the channels are 1mm wide.

Excelsior · May 5, 2003

why not... i mean its not as if its *CONFIDENTIAL*

He sold a bunch of them and its not as if teh dimensions cant be found out... and its going on sale in a few weeks from dtek...

Right now i just want to know the channel height and how thick the baseplate is at the lowest point (in the channels)

nikhsub1 · May 5, 2003

xX~EXCELSIOR~Xx said:
why not... i mean its not as if its *CONFIDENTIAL*

He sold a bunch of them and its not as if teh dimensions cant be found out... and its going on sale in a few weeks from dtek...

Right now i just want to know the channel height and how thick the baseplate is at the lowest point (in the channels)

Well if Cathar wants to make that info public, fine with me, no skin off my back. I just remember him saying he wanted to keep the exact dimensions quiet.

JFettig · May 5, 2003

so nikhsub1, your basicly saying that if I was to tell him the dimentions you guys would be ****ed at me? or aproximate dimentions(really close)?
or is it really that big of a deal?

just a simple question, I dont know if I woudl anyways. Im actually gonna suggest something different.

anyway.
I would seriously think about thinking up a design of your own, not a nockoff of some other block, its no where near as fun to make, and you dont have the same feeling from it. when you make something completely of your own, its totally cool, feel awesome inside

Im working on a WW nockoff just to see if I can make it perform better, but I dont hardly feel like working on it, dont feel nearly as good, Im gonna work on my own block I have designed when I get my metal

Jon

Excelsior · May 5, 2003

Well i only want the dimensions so i can know how thick thje palte is on his... i am trying to do a sort of micro channel block like his but with modifications in it.. i am trying to come up with my entirely own block but itds damn hard... I just needed info about his to know if i could improve on the measurements at all.

Cathar · May 5, 2003

I've posted information in numerous places hinting at the basic dimensions. I'm happy for other people to answer the question, but I find myself unwilling to simply give all the information that was requested outright.

Sorry, it's nothing personal. If you intend to modify it, then the dimensions of the block will be somewhat irrelevant as they are tuned for the particular implementation that is the White Water as it exists.

Excelsior · May 5, 2003

Well i am just trying to figure out whats the best ratio between thickness and force of the water and such and you seem to have found a good ratio.. i want to try to duplicate that with another thickness and i would just like to try and ponder it a bit.

gone_fishin · May 5, 2003

So you basically don't want to do any of your own calculating or trial and errors. Why not just buy one.

Excelsior · May 5, 2003

No i do want my own trial and errors

I am going to be trying different designs in a mill.. but you try to learn from other peoples experiences.. its called progress

WHy does everyone want to criticise people that try to amek anything remotely WW like.. I am NOT going to buy one. i WANT to learn from experience sand try different things.

Cathar · May 5, 2003

xX~EXCELSIOR~Xx said:
WHy does everyone want to criticise people that try to amek anything remotely WW like..

I'm not criticising you at all. It's great that you're trying something new. That's just it though. What works for the White Water is pretty much unique to every other aspect of its design. It's all interlinked in ways which aren't that obvious by simply saying "what's the best balance?".

I'm trying to say that it's not a case of that I'm unwilling to answer (unless you directly ask me the exact dimensionsof the WW), it's a case of that I cannot answer the question without knowing just what it is that you are trying to do, and even then the answers are not that easy to come by without a lot of work.

Excelsior · May 5, 2003

Well cathar you never seem to criticise people when they try new stuff with a clone of your block.. but i DO see a heck of a lot of other people doing so.. just annoys me

You have basically sprawled the industry forward a few leaps and i am just trying to see if i can improve on the design a bitl

gone_fishin · May 6, 2003

xX~EXCELSIOR~Xx said:
No i do want my own trial and errors

I am going to be trying different designs in a mill.. but you try to learn from other peoples experiences.. its called progress

WHy does everyone want to criticise people that try to amek anything remotely WW like.. I am NOT going to buy one. i WANT to learn from experience sand try different things.

Didn't mean to put you down. There is a wealth of information on this site and others for you to research. For starters you say you want a thicker base. The relationship between the die size and heatload (which is the given constant for a chip generation, generally speaking) and the bp thickness has been studied to length here and elsewhere. Cathar put a lot of hard work into his final combination of bp thickness, and upper geometry (with the economics of producing a sellable item in mind). What makes you think you are going to come along and get the measurements then just go willy nilly changing the dimensions and come up with an improvement. It could happen but you could also win the lotto with your last dollar. And to top it off you don't want to buy one so how are you going to come up with the cash to have it tested if you feel it performs better (without even having one to compare it to).

Cathar · May 6, 2003

Okay, I'll try and point you somewhere in the right direction, but these "rules of thumb" may not apply to all scenarios.

1) Base-plate thickness (in mm) should be the square root of the channel width (in mm).
2) Channel wall (fin) height should be between 3x to 5x the wall width
3) The ratio of fin width to channel width should be between 0.75x and 1.5x
4) A good tradeoff of velocity increasing orifice area vs pressure resistance is anywhere between 25-40mm^2 for most pumps.
5) Always allow >60mm^2 of total orifice area for the water to reach the exit(s). No need to offer more than 100mm^2.
6) If the base-plate thickness is less than 2mm you need to serious look at ways of bracing it to prevent flexing.

Excelsior · May 6, 2003

Thank you for the tips cathar those actually helped me get started on different designs...

And about buying a block.. well a bud from some forums is starting a site and he is making me a reviewer... I asked for a sample from neomoses for his evolution to pit against the dtek WW when it comes out but alas teh site isnt up yet so there would be no real reason for him to send me one just yet..

Hopefully when it comes out and the site is up i will finally pin the dtek WW against the evo with extensive (read: 10 days run per block) testing on real world cpus and a die simulator. I will try and contact dtek to send a sample but alas i am geussing they wouldnt be willing to :/ oh well probably means im going to have to try and purchase one.

SiGmA_X · May 6, 2003

Can someone link me to what we are talking about?

Cathar · May 6, 2003

SiGmA_X said:
Can someone link me to what we are talking about?

Excelsior · May 6, 2003

^ damn that's soooo sexy (the blocks.. the blocks...)

Korndog · May 6, 2003

hehehe, waterblock fetish

Hoot · May 6, 2003

What's all the hoopla about? THIS article has been here in these public forums since last September! That's what the search engine is for.

Hoot

Can i PLEASE get some information on dimensions of the WW..?

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