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Silver coating your heatsink

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stamasd

Member
Joined
Sep 13, 2002
Location
NYC
It doesn't look like anyone here tried this so far. How about coating the contact surface of your heatsink with pure silver? After all, we're all using silver paste for contact. I know it was done in a commercial heatsink (the Silver Mountain, a couple of years back), which was a decent heatsink at the time, but the idea seems to have tanked comercially. Too expensive I guess.

I decided to try. And it doesn't cost a dime!The method that I'll describe works for copper only, not for aluminum (aluminum chemistry is a whole different beast). You can either prepare the silver solution yourself if you've got the chemicals, or you can get it ready to use at any photo processing lab. The stuff I'm talking about is used photographic fixing solution. That contains a lot of silver as silver thiosulfate, which is ideal for deposition on copper. So just find a friend who works at a processing lab and get a pint of the stuff - and I repeat, *used* fixer, not new one (the fresh liquid doesn't have any silver). Or if you want to make it, just combine some 10% silver nitrate solution with an equal volume of 20% sodium thiosulfate (or fresh photo fixing solution) and a few drops of ammonium hydroxide. Wear rubber gloves, and be aware that it'll stain your clother irreversibly if it gets on them.

Now onto the silver deposition. I used an older Thermaltake Volcano 6 Cu, which is aluminum with a copper insert at the base. Not a bad HSF for its time, but way too weak these days. Anyway, I thought it'd make a good test case since the CPU will be running on the hot side, and the difference will be easier to notice with/without silver.

I first lapped the copper insert with 600g paper, then polished it a bit more with a wet rag. Not to a shiny mirror (I know all about the mirror/no mirror dispute). Cleaned the surface first with methylene chloride to remove all trace of grease, then with pure isopropyl alcohol. Cleanliness is very important, or else the silver layer will have streaks - not good! I applied slowly 4 ml of the silvering solution onto the copper plate (I forgot to say I first diluted the solution 3 times with pure water) and watched the silver layer appear. You want the solution diluted enough so that the silver layer grows rather slowly, over 3-4 minutes, not at once. I removed the spent solution, wiped the disk with a clean cloth, and applied diluted solution once more for another 5 minutes. At the end I washed everything thoroughly with distiled water, and gave the silvering a slight polish by rubbing several minutes against a sheet of ordinary printer paper laid flat on glass. Again, I didn't give it a mirror shine.

Here's an "after" image:

silver1.jpg


And a closeup of the silvered copper disc:

silver2.jpg


Now why would copper+silver layer+silver paste work better than copper+silver paste alone? Well the theory is that the silver paste penetrates the small crevices in the copper and maximizes thermal transfer surface. The silver layer instead grows directly on the copper base, and contacts it everywhere, even in the smallest cracks where silver paste doesn't penetrate. And the pure silver deposited is much softer than even copper, so when it's pressed against the CPU core it will easily mold onto it. And of course a thin layer of silver paste will cover every imperfection at the surface of the silver coat. It may work, or not. I have it ready to go, and took a set of readings last night, with the heatsink lapped but not silvered. Tonight when I get home I'll try the heatsink with the silver layer, then post the numbers. I expect to see maybe a 1-2 degrees improvement. But hey, every degree counts, right? :D
 
I was thinking of trying this, but I was going to go for electroplating by using miscellaneous discarded silver plated spoons etc as sacrificial electrodes. Couldn't think of a good electrolyte to use though, weak nitric acid maybe???

I was also thinking of copperplating the bottoms of some old aluminum sinks but can't seem to get my hands on any copper sulphate since I thought of it.

Road Warrior
 
stamasd said:
I expect to see maybe a 1-2 degrees improvement. But hey, every degree counts, right? :D

Silver plating will net you a negligable to zero percent increase in performance. This is pretty well documented, if you want a performance increase, the base or the heatsink itself needs to be solid silver, but the costs involved vs ratio in performance makes this not practicle since copper is so close to Silvers thermal properties.



Thermal Properties of Materials
Thermal Conductivity, W/cm-K
Metals
Aluminum 2.165
Beryllium 1.772
Beryllium-copper 1.063
Brass 70% copper, 30% zinc 1.220
Copper 3.937
Gold 2.913
Iron .669
Lead .343
Magnesium 1.575
Molybdenum 1.299
Monel .197
Nickel .906
Platinum .734
Silver 4.173


Any Silver modifications I have done including Silversinks have a solid silver base. Plating doesn't do anything other than make it pretty :):rolleyes::)

stamasd, Let us know your results and lets see if they validate what I've said. :cool:
 
RoadWarrior said:
I was thinking of trying this, but I was going to go for electroplating by using miscellaneous discarded silver plated spoons etc as sacrificial electrodes. Couldn't think of a good electrolyte to use though, weak nitric acid maybe???

You want to avoid the copper contacting any acid. In my experience, thiosulfate makes an excellent transfer medium for silver. Another good option (actually the best, but not suitable for other reasons) is cyanide. :eek:

I was also thinking of copperplating the bottoms of some old aluminum sinks but can't seem to get my hands on any copper sulphate since I thought of it.

Road Warrior

You can find anything on eBay. :) But coating aluminum with anything is in a completely different ballpark. Exposed aluminum surfaces in air become instantly coated with a thin layer of oxide, which you have to remove during the plating. You'd want to do it in a completely submerged bath (because I don't imagine you have access to an inert gas chamber), probably in presence of some diluted acid - hydrochloric for instance. But that's bound to ruin the finish of your HS bottom. I experimented with that a while ago, and didn't come to a good formula after several days of playing with it. If you're going to try, I'd suggest you do it with some scrap aluminum blocks instead with your heatsink directly.
 
Last edited:
Re: Re: Silver coating your heatsink

Silversinksam said:


Silver plating will net you a negligable to zero percent increase in performance. This is pretty well documented, if you want a performance increase, the base or the heatsink itself needs to be solid silver, but the costs involved vs ratio in performance makes this not practicle since copper is so close to Silvers thermal properties.



Thermal Properties of Materials
Thermal Conductivity, W/cm-K
Metals
Aluminum 2.165
Beryllium 1.772
Beryllium-copper 1.063
Brass 70% copper, 30% zinc 1.220
Copper 3.937
Gold 2.913
Iron .669
Lead .343
Magnesium 1.575
Molybdenum 1.299
Monel .197
Nickel .906
Platinum .734
Silver 4.173


Any Silver modifications I have done including Silversinks have a solid silver base. Plating doesn't do anything other than make it pretty :):rolleyes::)

stamasd, Let us know your results and lets see if they validate what I've said. :cool:

Like I said I don't expect any miracles. But it can't hurt, and it costs nothing. :D

BTW, are your silver mods documented someplace, like on a web site? A solid silver base is my next step - I have a silver ingot ready, but I thought I'd start with something that doesn't increase HS height by any significant amount.
 
Re: Re: Re: Silver coating your heatsink

stamasd said:


Like I said I don't expect any miracles. But it can't hurt, and it costs nothing. :D

BTW, are your silver mods documented someplace, like on a web site? A solid silver base is my next step - I have a silver ingot ready, but I thought I'd start with something that doesn't increase HS height by any significant amount.

I have stopped making Silversainks for sale and theres no information aside from stuff in the forums. I've made a few cool gizmos like this http://www.overclockers.com/tips759/ My masterpiece was a Swiftech MC1001 with a solid silver base, this insane heatsink cost several hundred dollars to built. All pics and the owner of this heatsink wishes to remain annonymous, and I will respect his wishes.

You know if you dont want to increase the height you could always grind down the heatsinks base to the level of the silver you are adding. As you probably know fine .999 fine silver is what you want to use.

Cathar has made a few wonderful waterblocks with Silver bases and theres a few pics on this forum of them. I promised Joe a silver block long ago and Cathar has agreed to help me make one for him using the last of my Silver stockpile. Mr.B is also helping in this project for Joe C. as we love Joe for all he has done for us.
 
Unfortunately I don't have access to any sort of melting equipment, so I'll have to limit myself to the rounds and rectangular ingots you can get on eBay. :(
 
stamasd said:
Unfortunately I don't have access to any sort of melting equipment, so I'll have to limit myself to the rounds and rectangular ingots you can get on eBay. :(


Stamasd,

I didn't mean to discourage you from tinkering around, many people around here have succesfully used Ingots as bases on heatsinks and such. Smelting isn't necessary if you have a little time and elbow grease to spare. Let us know what you fabricate as anything Silver is good the way I see it :)
 
You know, I'm more of a chemistry wiz than a metal worker, so I'll see if I can come up with a simple way of adding a 1-2mm thick layer of silver by chemical/electrochemical deposition. Several hundreds of mm is easy, more is a challenge.
 
Yeah, when I've been thinking about plating things I've been thinking of trying to get a decent thickness on, like a mm or so, not just the few microns it takes to get smooth a polishable coat. Sam has quoted the "Silver plating will net you a negligable to zero percent increase in performance. This is pretty well documented," line at me before, but I'm not thinking of doing the same thing really. I left a carbon rod bubbling away in CuSO4 solution for a week with about 14V and it got a mm of copper on it easily. Only need a small area coated really, like an inch circle where the core contacts, I'd mask the rest off, paint it or something.

Road Warrior
 
I ran a few numbers, and I don't think it's feasible to get a nice thick coat of silver by purely chemical deposition. Electroplating is another thing. But I thing even better (although not as easy) would be electroplating by high voltage silver sputtering in vacuum. All you need is a vacuum pump and a HV source (about 2000V should do it).
 
Yeah, vacuum coating :D You could do your CPU die as well. Now where did I put my 10^-6 Tor vacuum pump that I got in a cereal box??

You can get a lower quality sputter in an inert atmosphere though. I keep toying with the idea of rigging a vacuum coating rig for making telescope mirrors, but since you only get decent mirror quality at around 10^-4 Tor or so, and I can only figure on getting about 10^-3 before the finances get silly, then I don't think it's really viable.

What I wonder though, is if one had access to the vacuum equipment in a university physics lab, is, would it be possible to sputter your heatsink and core, and THEN ultrasonically weld them together! :D

Road Warrior
 
RoadWarrior said:
I left a carbon rod bubbling away in CuSO4 solution for a week with about 14V and it got a mm of copper on it easily. Only need a small area coated really, like an inch circle where the core contacts, I'd mask the rest off, paint it or something.

Road Warrior

A millimeter will net you positive thermal result for sure, but silverplating thats a tiny fraction of a millimeter won't. I wish you had taken pics of that process as that would be interesting to check out.
 
Okay, here's the scoop. The equipment first:

Athlon XP 2500+ at stock voltage (1.65) and speed (166x11);
Asus A7V600
512M Geil PC3200
hardware monitoring: Asus probe 2
Thermaltake Volcano 6 Cu, with original fan replaced by a 80mm Delta 3250rpm 37.5cfm
AS5 thermal compound
torture test: Prime95, 30 minutes each

Results:

yesterday, before silver coating
idle: motherboard 31, CPU 41
30 min torture test: motherboard 32, cpu 53

today, with silver coating:
idle: motherboard 32, CPU 41
30 min torture test: motherboard 32, CPU 52

So it's definitely not worse, and it may even be a tiny, tiny bit better. :)

RoadWarrior: I believe the numbers you quoted are for aluminum electrosputtering. If I understand it correctly, the equivalent silver process is far less demanding. You may get away with a vacuum of 1-2 torr, for which 2 modified refrigerator compressors in tandem are enough.

However, the only ultrasound equipment I have access to is designed to disintegrate, not weld. :D
 
I don't see how a silver coating could benefit at all... Unless it were on the base perhaps and it was the right thickness to disperse the heat from the small CPU die to a larger portion of copper (Like a TEC coldplate basically).

Coating copper fins or pins with silver would look very nice, but would not benefit thermal transfer at all, actually it would make it worse.
 
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