radiator review on front page: attn. Bill Adams

I may be out of line, but would it be possible to post your heat dissipation charts (ppgs 4-5) in watts rather than btu's ?

I ask since the relative heat output of most cpu's is handled in watts (i.e. by the program 'Radiate').

Great article btw. Man, it sucks to have your equipment busted down in cold, hard data (I have one of those 4x4 radiators that performed so badly in your tests).

Great article Bill. I expect this will be the standard reference for any watercooler. I also expect that we will see a whole bunch of more efficient cooling systems in the various forums thanks to your efforts. My hat's off to you!

Best Regards,

Colin

Ruiner
that your radiator performed "poorly" in a comparative sense is no big deal
of more significance is how well it performs in your system
it does have the advantage of being quite small
say . . . a Cyrix in a briefcase ? <g>

re the charts:
all is possible, re-doing those charts is not probable - and not just because I'm lazy
describing the dissipation in Watts encourages the notion that "X" radiator is good for "Y" CPU,
whereas the selection process (correctly done) is far more than a single relationship, involving the pump, fan, and wb also

it's probably far simpler for the individual to convert their CPU's heat

Thanks for the nice feedback

be cool

Ok then...
Does anyone know a handy formula to convert watts to BTUs?

it was given after the equation defining Q

("Btus" as used in this article are Btus/hr and can be converted to Watt*hours by multiplying by 0.2931)

be cool

Ruiner, just got this e-mail from the owner of procooling.com
(the "review" site that pushes OC-WC products)

Hey man it's been a while since I had a good laugh. You really just
have a lot of hate going on for a lil radiator that no one even uses or
really sells anymore.

Oh well, good to see you are keeping busy. Since you think you are 1/3
of the blessed trinity, I am trying to find the other 2/3rds for ya.

Oh well, thanks for the laugh, I love to see people bring up products
that were used a year ago and ***** about them

Joe Kelly
. . .

a tad curious as to why Kelly would bother to say that - ?

be cool

I thought the article was excellent. I now know why OCWC offers a LPD version of the Blackice. It seems like it needs it. I think from now on I'll be digging around for those heater cores. That Serck was nice but might be hard to fit in a case. This article I will be using for many future references as I work on any next cooling projects.

It sounds like that Procooling guy didn't understand the point of the article and is just a little biased (add lots of sarcasm). The data was done in a scientific manner, and shows the true performance of the radiators in certain conditions.

Well done.

geeeeeeeeeeez, nice artical, vary nice. im kinda new at this water cooling stuff, but it wasnt to hard to understand. do you plan on adding more radiators to this?? or is it a one time thing... i have never seen anything so... INCREDIBLE!!! great work!

hmm procooling pushes oc-wc stuff? news to me... oh well, still a good round-up.

Exceptionally well done article. Looks like a lot of work. Thanks for the time and effort.

i think that article would be great if you plan to update it with new radiators (and old ones)

the intent behind the article's writing was to show how radiators could (should ?) be tested
and then expanded somewhat to illustrate the use of the data

it is not my goal to attempt to write The Grand Encyclopedia
(even MY ego is not so large)

as I stated at the conclusion, consumers need to PUSH the vendors into providing accurate product descriptions
(as they are the ones making money, eh?)

I suspect that once the increased performance of a designed CPU watercooling "system" becomes apparent, the vendors will shift away from component sales.
(My appraisal of the existing systems, Senfu and Koolance possibly excepted, is that they are selected components - as contrasted with a "designed" system. One needs to know how the pieces perform before one can presume to integrate them.)

Individuals do not (generally) have the instrumentation to sort out component performance, and then match them all up in an optimized manner. Whereas a vendor can distribute the R&D costs over many system sales.

An analogy could be drawn between street rodders and factory teams.

And on a more personal level, this article took 10 months of part-time work, and thousands of $; I did it because I was interested. It was posted on this site because Joe Citarella is a likeable fellow, loaned me 4 of the radiators (Chip Eckert loaned me the other 4), and gave me continuos encouragement to complete the bloody beast.
Why should I (continue to) do the work of the vendors ?

sorry for the rant
be cool

Hey Bill

Well this post will come as some surprise.

I'm sorry.

I sent the email knowing it would be posted ( I know you all too well ), mainly cause of past differences we had. Bill you and I have had it out for each other for well over a year now, and while I read through your article, and while I did have a few lil gripes, overall it was good and I can attest to that it would have easily taken months to do that review.

You can take this for what its worth or ignore it. I have done some thinking and figure its just not worth it. No reason to ***** and berate someone who's just doing their thing on the web. So I am done busting your balls Bill. Both of us have acted like kids at one point or another in one forum or another, and it wasn't doing anyone anygood.

I do want to clarify one small thing:
"the "review" site that pushes OC-WC products"
Simply not true, what you saw as pushing OCWC was me simply pushing what I saw to be the best at one point in time. As we all know its a moving target. OCWC is not the end all be all for anything. Danger Den, BeCool, OCWC, HwLabs, Luefken all have good products, and today the playing field is very level between them. I don't shill for any company, and I am not Biased, never have been and never will be. Just ask any one of the people who sponsor the site who have had bad performing products reviewed. Every sponsor has had that happen at least once and has been burned at the stake for it just as I would treat anyone else.

Thanks fer your time, and sorry... it was just a knee jerk reaction that last night I was thinking about and saying "god damn that was childish and un-necessary" after I read the article closely.

< sarcasm> Now I gotta go and count all the money from my pay offs < /sarcasm> hehehehe (gotta have a sense of humor)

Later,
Joe or "Mr. Kelly"
Owner/Editor ProCooling.com

well ...... ok, but as an engineer - I deal with facts (not revisionist history)
we shall see

on a constructive note, you mentioned "I did have a few lil gripes"

if you would be a bit more specific I'll try to answer or explain

be cool

Sounds like clegg/joe/mrkelly had personal reason for dissing Bill's radiator test result. Furthermore, it seems likely that he has some investment, whether financial or emotional, in OWCP. Look at his statement
"You really just have a lot of hate going on for a lil radiator that no one even uses or really sells anymore."
I saw no "hate" in Bill's article, nor any unsupported bias towards the product.

I'm new to water cooling and new to this forum (but not new to oc.com), so I've seen no interaction between these two. I used a discriminating eye in reading Bill's article because I'm designing my soon to be watercooling setup and want to be sure the info I'm reading is accurate.

BillA said:

the intent behind the article's writing was to show how radiators could (should ?) be tested
and then expanded somewhat to illustrate the use of the data

it is not my goal to attempt to write The Grand Encyclopedia
(even MY ego is not so large)

as I stated at the conclusion, consumers need to PUSH the vendors into providing accurate product descriptions
(as they are the ones making money, eh?)

I suspect that once the increased performance of a designed CPU watercooling "system" becomes apparent, the vendors will shift away from component sales.
(My appraisal of the existing systems, Senfu and Koolance possibly excepted, is that they are selected components - as contrasted with a "designed" system. One needs to know how the pieces perform before one can presume to integrate them.)

Individuals do not (generally) have the instrumentation to sort out component performance, and then match them all up in an optimized manner. Whereas a vendor can distribute the R&D costs over many system sales.

An analogy could be drawn between street rodders and factory teams.

And on a more personal level, this article took 10 months of part-time work, and thousands of $; I did it because I was interested. It was posted on this site because Joe Citarella is a likeable fellow, loaned me 4 of the radiators (Chip Eckert loaned me the other 4), and gave me continuos encouragement to complete the bloody beast.
Why should I (continue to) do the work of the vendors ?

sorry for the rant
be cool

Click to expand...

the vendors will never publish accurate results of their radiators performance bescause someone could allways come along and get a better one, they rely on advertising to get the message across that there product is better even if it isn't, the best you can hope for is independant reviews to take on your standard of reviewing to produce accurate cross reference benchmarks

I must be missing something, because when I have talked to Joe Kelly, he actually recommends Autozone parts. Last time I checked, they don't advertize on his site.

His last review suggested the same thing that Bill concluded: low pressure drop radiators like the standard heater core are the best bet.

Joe Kelly may not be perfect, but I see every indication that he is trying to do the right thing.

riprock said:

Sounds like clegg/joe/mrkelly had personal reason for dissing Bill's radiator test result. Furthermore, it seems likely that he has some investment, whether financial or emotional, in OWCP. Look at his statement
"You really just have a lot of hate going on for a lil radiator that no one even uses or really sells anymore."
I saw no "hate" in Bill's article, nor any unsupported bias towards the product.

I'm new to water cooling and new to this forum (but not new to oc.com), so I've seen no interaction between these two. I used a discriminating eye in reading Bill's article because I'm designing my soon to be watercooling setup and want to be sure the info I'm reading is accurate.

Click to expand...

Hey buddy,

my comments in that email were fueled NOT from this review, but from previous "encounters" between me and Bill. The What and Where are not a concern cause its all in the past, and carries NO relevance to anyone.

Also:
"Furthermore, it seems likely that he has some investment, whether financial or emotional, in OWCP. "
Umm same could be said about anyone who runs any site and has any sponsor. Running a website isn't cheap, companies pay for that lil few pixels of ad space. They do NOT in any way shape or form pay for the text that's typed in the site whether it is or isn't about their products.

I mean should we all think that if Joe C. reviews a HSF that Heatsink Factory sells that its Biased? Or anything that he may say in here that "cooling gears" may have some relation to is Biased?.

I am a consumer just like everyone who reads the site, and I am interested in what performs best, no matter what.

Anyone who really knows me, or really has read my writings, can see that its not biased to any company. The people who jump to the conclusion that it must be biased are the ones who have been conditioned by the 5000 crap websites out there that would tell you a HSF can cure cancer if the sponsor paid them enough. I am not like that.

Thanks for your time, and check my writing or the site before you make assumptions like that.

Joe
ProCooling.com