Need submersable pump suggestion please

Im finishing off my Chiller unit and have a ViaAgua powerhead submersable pump 480 200 GPH 4' MHH

will this pump last the length of time submersed in -5 windshield washer fluid?

Any suggestions of what pump to use before i seal everything in ?

For a chiller I wouldn't use a submersible pump. Neither do I know of any quality submersible pumps that would work well.

try one of these depending on your budget:

iwaki RD30
iwaki md20 RLZ
panworld PX40

As for your coolant question in the other thread methanol cut with distilled water is your best bet. Ethanol works too, just not as well but its easier to get.

Also I don't recommend having copper water blocks and the aluminum evap (with steel brackets) in your loop. You are very likely to start galvanic corrosion.

Pf.Farnsworth said:

For a chiller I wouldn't use a submersible pump. Neither do I know of any quality submersible pumps that would work well.

try one of these depending on your budget:

iwaki RD30
iwaki md20 RLZ
panworld PX40

As for your coolant question in the other thread methanol cut with distilled water is your best bet. Ethanol works too, just not as well but its easier to get.

Also I don't recommend having copper water blocks and the aluminum evap (with steel brackets) in your loop. You are very likely to start galvanic corrosion.

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Thanks i think im going to try a 2/5 ratio mix of an all metals Anti-freez and distilled water...im not changing the core at this point...and every water block that ive seen that has great reviews all use cooper dont they?

Pretty much. Copper water block is the way to go but you know don't take galvanic corrosion lightly, I have seen it dissolve blocks and cores so you might end up with nothing. It really depends on a few variables, be cearfull. If you notice your water turning a brown color or any color for that matter or getting murky thats a sign

Antifreeze works just not all that great. It gets thick when cold and heat transfer and capacity isn't as good but it the easiest to use

Pf.Farnsworth said:

Pretty much. Copper water block is the way to go but you know don't take galvanic corrosion lightly, I have seen it dissolve blocks and cores so you might end up with nothing. It really depends on a few variables, be cearfull. If you notice your water turning a brown color or any color for that matter or getting murky thats a sign

Antifreeze works just not all that great. It gets thick when cold and heat transfer and capacity isn't as good but it the easiest to use

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Id like to use methanol cut with distilled water like you said but i really have no idea where to get it

First page of a google search

http://www.sciencestuff.com/prod/Chem-Rgnts/C2083

They only sell 4 liters at a time. There are other places online where you can buy in much smaller quantities, I just don't have time to find them right now. Also check out your local hardware store. In the end if you cant find methanol ethanol is good too. Not quite as good but its also easier to work with.

(Ethanol is the drinking alcohol. Also goes under "denatured alcohol", meaning it has some additives to make it non drinkable, which leads to the point : non taxable by government as boose which is whats at your local hardware store)

Try This Pump. I used a Mag7 in a saltwater aquarium sump for 3+ years with no problems. It was submenged and ran 24/7 - 365.

These Powerheads are also very good but this site is out of them. BTW, Premium Aquatics was one of the best aquarium suppliers I ever dealt with. Marinedepot.com was also very good. It has been a year or two since I dealt with either of them though.

orion25 said:

Try This Pump. I used a Mag7 in a saltwater aquarium sump for 3+ years with no problems. It was submenged and ran 24/7 - 365.

These Powerheads are also very good but this site is out of them. BTW, Premium Aquatics was one of the best aquarium suppliers I ever dealt with. Marinedepot.com was also very good. It has been a year or two since I dealt with either of them though.

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You forget this is for a very cold chiller by the aquarium standards. These pumps are not made to run below 0C and often the housing crack and the impellers crack and shatter.

Pumps that have somewhat proven themselves are the iwaki and panworld mag pumps.

iwaki md20 RLZ and panworld 40PX are good pumps. Iwaki RD30/20 seems to work too, the impeller housing is a little more brittle but it worked while I used it.

Panworld 40PX is a great pump for the money. If you can get a hold of md20 RLZ model that would be a little more price wise but better performance, you want to look for high pressure pumps not high flow.

Don't buy cheap aquarium dinky pumps, they have a habit of breaking down fast under extreme conditions.

I have no idea how the Mag's preform at near freezing or sub freezing temps. I am pretty sure that no mechanical water pump can preform worth a crap at 0C since it will be pumping ice . But the Iwaki pumps are also firmly rooted in the aquarium hobby (albeit in higher end set ups). The Mag's that I mentioned can be used external as well as submerged.

Now if you want real water movement try one of these......

Sequence are good for closed loops in aquara systems, no head preasure at all (other then line and plumbing loss).. So no I wouldn't recomend them.. (without the head preasure they run cool.. but much head preasure, just look at the wattage of the thing, it makes the coolant HOT!!!)
I know a little about this subject LOL http://www.aquariumadvice.com/profile.php?mode=viewprofile&u=9833

the difference between a mag and a pan-world (or iwaki) is the residual heat that comes off the actuall motor attached.. I bet most of the insurance in running them is the motor keeping the impeller and pumping housing warm enough to not crack when pumping -30C temp liquid.
I was actually currious to see how the RD-30 was going to pan out for chiller use, but Im sure PF has linkage and if it does work well, it makes me think something like a eheim or a mag with the pump housing insultated well (NOT THE MOTOR!!) would work fine.. you might want to use some low temp rated RTV silicone on the pump houseing gasket however.

And NO your not pumping ICE!!! thats why you use alcohol cut with distilled water, the point in wich the stuff comes close to freezing is GOOD CASCADE TEMPS.. not going to happen with a single stage chiller of any sort..

orion25 said:

I have no idea how the Mag's preform at near freezing or sub freezing temps. I am pretty sure that no mechanical water pump can preform worth a crap at 0C since it will be pumping ice . But the Iwaki pumps are also firmly rooted in the aquarium hobby (albeit in higher end set ups). The Mag's that I mentioned can be used external as well as submerged.

Now if you want real water movement try one of these......

Click to expand...

Please don't give advice unless you are sure. If you indeed have no idea like you just said, don't post and say "hey these are great use them". Might lead people to potential problems, no offense Carry on

That pump is the worst choice a person can make. First of all flow itself is irrelevant. You wont see anywhere neat these flow numbers in pc water cooling loops because they are too restrictive. What you want is a high pressure pump not a high flow pump. Second, given that pump still has quite a bit of head that pump will dump ridiculous amounts of heat in to the coolant, which is counter productive. You will use a lot of power and just make your temperatures higher not lower.

Iwaki are indeed on the higher end of the aquarium business. What it useful in them when it comes to chillers is they are usually made of materials that do not turn brittle at low temperatures. They are also made to run nasty things like salt water so they are pretty resilient to various chemicals (that might be present in the coolant to keep it liquid), and lastly they are made to run for years and years non stop, very high reliability and very low failure rate. Iwaki or not though you still have to size the pump accordingly to the situation.



PS:
Comment on a technicality, no they wont be pumping ice, no pump can, but sub zero chillers don't run straight water either way so moot point.

@greenmaji

haha never say never. I can make a single stage chiller that will freeze pure methanol, its just a matter of the compressor being powerful enough, right refrigerant, good heat exchanger and good insulation. You also didn't mention load, which makes it so much easier to freeze lol

As for RD30, you know I find the impeller housing is made of a pretty brittle material so have to cearful. However the body is aluminum and impeller is tough. Probably best heat dump to pressure pump out there, just have to be careful not to ram something hard in to the impeller housing when its pulling coolant below 0C.

greenmaji said:

And NO your not pumping ICE!!! thats why you use alcohol cut with distilled water, the point in wich the stuff comes close to freezing is GOOD CASCADE TEMPS.. not going to happen with a single stage chiller of any sort..

Click to expand...

Sorry, I made a futile attempt at humor. You made very good points here and I see I have a lot to learn about W/C........

Pf.Farnsworth said:

Please don't give advice unless you are educated in the field or have good experience. If you indeed have no idea like you just said dont post and say "hey these are great use them".

That pump is the worst choice a person can make. First of all flow itself is irrelevant. You wont see anywhere neat these flow numbers in pc water cooling loops because they are too restrictive. What you want is a high pressure pump not a high flow pump. Second, given that pump still has quite a bit of head that pump will dump ridiculous amounts of heat in to the coolant, which is counter productive. You will use a lot of power and just make your temperatures higher not lower.

Iwaki are indeed on the higher end of the aquarium business. What it useful in them when it comes to chillers is they are usually made of materials that do not turn brittle at low temperatures. They are also made to run nasty things like salt water so they are pretty resilient to various chemicals (that might be present in the coolant to keep it liquid), and lastly they are made to run for years and years non stop, very high reliability and very low failure rate. Iwaki or not though you still have to size the pump accordingly to the situation.



PS:
Comment on a technicality, no they wont be pumping ice, no pump can, but sub zero chillers don't run straight water either way so moot point.

Click to expand...

Dude, I'm sorry I got this started. OK, you know more about this than I do. All I really know is that I ran a Mag7 in a Saltwater Aquarium (hifghy corrosive) for 3+ years with no problems and it was un-filtered (filters could have increased nitrates but that is a different story). My final comment is that due to basic physics principals, ANY sbumerged (What the OP was looking for) pump will increase temps due to the simple fact that it has to use the surrounding liquid for cooling. There are no pumps that are self cooling, they all rely on either the air or water around them.

now I will bow out of this conversation as I am in over my head - submerged, so to speak.........

orion25 said:

Dude, I'm sorry I got this started. OK, you know more about this than I do. All I really know is that I ran a Mag7 in a Saltwater Aquarium (hifghy corrosive) for 3+ years with no problems and it was un-filtered (filters could have increased nitrates but that is a different story). My final comment is that due to basic physics principals, ANY sbumerged (What the OP was looking for) pump will increase temps due to the simple fact that it has to use the surrounding liquid for cooling. There are no pumps that are self cooling, they all rely on either the air or water around them.

now I will bow out of this conversation as I am in over my head - submerged, so to speak.........

Click to expand...

I think you misunderstood, I simply meant that we are talking about a chiller here and aquarium experience may not be as "applicable" here, so one should be careful giving out advice as other peoples money and computers are at stake. Do stay though, if I came off offensive I apologize, just trying to watch out for people new to this as I was there once

Pf.Farnsworth said:

haha never say never. I can make a single stage chiller that will freeze pure methanol, its just a matter of the compressor being powerful enough, right refrigerant, good heat exchanger and good insulation. You also didn't mention load, which makes it so much easier to freeze lol

As for RD30, you know I find the impeller housing is made of a pretty brittle material so have to cearful. However the body is aluminum and impeller is tough. Probably best heat dump to pressure pump out there, just have to be careful not to ram something hard in to the impeller housing when its pulling coolant below 0C.

Click to expand...

Designed with computer cooling in mine (heat load ) and a compressor that wouldn't run someone out of the house LOL

Yea.. I would think someone at XS was running one and you would have known about it..

Pf.Farnsworth said:

First page of a google search

http://www.sciencestuff.com/prod/Chem-Rgnts/C2083

They only sell 4 liters at a time. There are other places online where you can buy in much smaller quantities, I just don't have time to find them right now. Also check out your local hardware store. In the end if you cant find methanol ethanol is good too. Not quite as good but its also easier to work with.

(Ethanol is the drinking alcohol. Also goes under "denatured alcohol", meaning it has some additives to make it non drinkable, which leads to the point : non taxable by government as boose which is whats at your local hardware store)

Click to expand...

Thanks for the info sir i apreciate it

if i use "denatured alcohol" what is the mixture to water ratio ?


I finished the wiring and built the rough cabinet ...
have yet to install the led's, cover the cabinet and add the hardware

greenmaji said:

Designed with computer cooling in mine (heat load ) and a compressor that wouldn't run someone out of the house LOL

Click to expand...

Excellent point...!!!

My goal is to add a Peltier...so to remove that heat and remove heat from two 8800GTX's

Ill be honest here...im now still somewhat lost on what pump to go buy
ill re-read the posts...and i do have to buy what is recomended to me as ive never gone with a chiller before....so your words are very important at this point.

Pf.Farnsworth - Thanks man...but i do need to stick with a submersible at this point...maybe the next chiller will be done properly...
I do plan on building a 2nd unit...but much smaller.

I just dont have the room for a external in-line.

The two you recommended are both external...if you had to go submesible...what pump would you get ? ( i have to be able to find it locally ..Toronto Ontario area)

And i do apreciate the efforts guys...!!

Self contained chiller, I like it, no ghetto here.

It looks to me that the small pan-world would fit right below your controls box..
I would have to check the dementions..

Ill have to search for data santa's posts on how much to cut with distilled water charts yea PF. posts them

sizerkozak said:

Thanks for the info sir i apreciate it

if i use "denatured alcohol" what is the mixture to water ratio ?

Click to expand...

greenmaji said:

Ill have to search for data santa's posts on how much to cut with distilled water charts yea PF. posts them

Click to expand...

Its no problem, let me re host it.

There numbers I pulled off an industrial chemical distribution company website at one point. I used this table and it worked well.

sizerkozak said:

Excellent point...!!!

My goal is to add a Peltier...so to remove that heat and remove heat from two 8800GTX's

Click to expand...

Pelts don't work great under cold temperatures. I don't have the complete understanding of thermocouples (......yet, ME major ) but they seem to like being hot on one side and cold on the other. Pelts under chillers and DD's have been discussed before and explanations were posted but I do not remember them very well.

Also to be honest you can get colder with your chiller then with the pelts you can buy/afford/that wont send your electricity bill in to thousands. No point really in a pelt under a chiller, you will just use significantly more electricity and probably get warmer temperatures.

sizerkozak said:

Ill be honest here...im now still somewhat lost on what pump to go buy
ill re-read the posts...and i do have to buy what is recomended to me as ive never gone with a chiller before....so your words are very important at this point.

Pf.Farnsworth - Thanks man...but i do need to stick with a submersible at this point...maybe the next chiller will be done properly...
I do plan on building a 2nd unit...but much smaller.

I just dont have the room for a external in-line.

The two you recommended are both external...if you had to go submesible...what pump would you get ? ( i have to be able to find it locally ..Toronto Ontario area)

Click to expand...

Honestly I don't want to give bad advice. I personally never used a submersible pump in this type of application so I dont have any expirience and dont want to tell you to buy something that might fail later and cause damage to your computer.

Only advice I feel safe giving if you really want to know what I would do in this situation is look for a submersible pump that is rated at maybe -10C. Given a safety margin they under rate so probably it should be good down to -15 maybe -20C.

If you will keep your coolant no colder then -5C then I would feel safe with a pump rated for 0C. Which is what most nice aquarium pumps are. Look at submersible pumps at aquarium online stores and then find the home page of the company whose pump you want to check out and see if they have a .pdf with pump info and specs, they usually do.

Try browsing these sites for ideas:
http://www.aquadirect.com/store/home.php?cat=633
http://www.premiumaquatics.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Category_Code=Pumps
http://www.marinedepot.com/aquarium_pumps__index.asp?CartId=
http://www.marinedepot.com/aquarium_powerheads_pumps__index.asp?CartId=

sizerkozak said:

And i do apreciate the efforts guys...!!

Click to expand...

Glad to be of help