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peltier checklist
- Thread starter ppe1700
- Start date
- Joined
- Dec 25, 2004
cpu > AS5 > COLD PLATE > AS5 > peltier > AS5 > waterblock.
Peltiers need pressure to function at their best, so a copper cold plate is used on the cold side. It also helps diffuse the small hotspot that a peltier isn't that good at dealing with to a more uniform heat load that a peltier does deal well with. Here is a link to a picture of mine, the frosted up section is the cold plate. http://www.ocforums.com/showpost.php?p=3700911&postcount=11
And yes on insulation. If you can get conformal coating (designed to seal electronic components) that works well, but if not, good neoprene coverage will work well too.
Just to clarify, the conformal coating keeps moisture from shorting out component. Neoprene, when thick enough and if it has 100% coverage of your cold components, will provide enough insulation that the surface isn't below the dew point so moisture in the air doesn't condense out and/or freeze on your cold surfaces. Combining the two is a belt & suspenders approach.
Sorry if I'm harping on this too much, but i did lose a CPU to a pinhole in my back side of the motherboard's conformal coating. Moisture built up in the socket until it corroded away several pins off of the CPU. (Pins were fine but apparently the junction to the pad they were soldered to was susceptible to corrosion.)
Last edited:
- Joined
- May 24, 2005
I would do -
CPU > Arctic Silver ceramique > Cold plate > Arctic Silver ceramique > Peltier > AS5 > waterblock
I believe Arctic Silver ceramique to be better under 0'C at transferring heat than AS5, correct me if I'm wrong, just heard somewhere a long time ago that AS5 does not behave nicely under very cold temps.
Make sure the peliter is very powerful or you will overshoot it, and make sure to have plenty radiators or it will get amazingly hot - near the threshold a peltier becomes a total insulator...
Peltier cooling is an all out or nothing affair. A bad pelt setup is worse that a midrange water setup...
LOL @Torin - NO goop between cold plate and peltier?? BOOM!!!
CPU > Arctic Silver ceramique > Cold plate > Arctic Silver ceramique > Peltier > AS5 > waterblock
I believe Arctic Silver ceramique to be better under 0'C at transferring heat than AS5, correct me if I'm wrong, just heard somewhere a long time ago that AS5 does not behave nicely under very cold temps.
Make sure the peliter is very powerful or you will overshoot it, and make sure to have plenty radiators or it will get amazingly hot - near the threshold a peltier becomes a total insulator...
Peltier cooling is an all out or nothing affair. A bad pelt setup is worse that a midrange water setup...
LOL @Torin - NO goop between cold plate and peltier?? BOOM!!!
- Joined
- Dec 25, 2004
Thanks for pointing that out. Corrected now.
I belive you are correct that Ceramique is much better for extremely cold situations, but I think the temps you are going to deal with for a typical peltier don't go quite that far. I never had any problems due to AS5 when I used my peltier. I was able to get down to about -10°C for the CPU under ideal conditions. But for phase change, I would definately go with Ceramique rather than AS5.
And I can verify that an inadequate radiator will mess you up. I had an old Iceberg kit when I started out and was using their radiator while I was adding in better components to my system. However when I added the peltier it just started getting hotter and hotter as the radiator couldn't dump enough heat out of the loop.
As a matter of fact, my very first post here was about this:
http://www.ocforums.com/showthread.php?t=353511
- Joined
- Dec 25, 2004
Sounds like a decent size. I did ok with a 240mm x 120mm heater core. You should be good with that setup. The inadequate one I had was about 80mm x 100mm, and only had 1/4" barbs on it. It would be a good idea just to monitor the CPU temps for a while after you start up. As long as after an hour they aren't rising I would say you are fine.
I don't remember for sure, but I'd say that I got about 2°C-8°C under prime95 load when using the pelt.
OP
- Joined
- Jan 9, 2007
- Thread Starter
- #7
wow! thats cool
i thought it would be like 10-20c or something now i must do it, then leave the pc at work to use their electricity LOL
OP
- Joined
- Jan 9, 2007
- Thread Starter
- #8
what Wattage pelt should i get to get those temps?
if i get a 226w one, will my power supply be able to handle it: http://www.ocforums.com/showthread.php?t=527178 (torin u commented already)
and the pelt is:
http://www.dangerden.com/store/product.php?productid=85&cat=30&page=1
if i get a 226w one, will my power supply be able to handle it: http://www.ocforums.com/showthread.php?t=527178 (torin u commented already)
and the pelt is:
http://www.dangerden.com/store/product.php?productid=85&cat=30&page=1
- Joined
- Dec 25, 2004
I used a 226W pelt for that. However, I did have 2 heater cores. A 120mm x120mm, and a 240mm x 120mm. You may be closer to 10°-14°C with what you are looking at.
Insulation cannot be over emphasized.
If you mess it up, you will kill hardware.
Some other things you should be aware of:
You will need a dedicated power supply to power the peltier.
Peltiers are highly inefficient and use a lot of electricity for what you get.
You will need a foolproof automatic relay to start up your peltier's PSU at the same time as the computer. Do not rely on plugging/unplugging the PSU manually. You will forget to plug/unplug it eventually, and bad things will happen. I cannot emphasize this enough. A good relay unit for the peltier PSU is perhaps the most important part of your setup. I stress this because of personal experience, I lost a video card when I got sloppy with my bench setup and stopped using my relay during bench runs - I forgot to unplug it once the system pump powered off with the computer.
Be extremely careful with the peltier's leads (wires). They are prone to breaking off and pulling out of the peltier if a signifigant amount of pressure is placed on them. Even a small amount of pressure over a long period of time can pull the pelt's wiring out, and bad things happen when those live leads are loose in your case. Not to mention that the pelt won't be powered if they pull out. I mention this because it has happened to me twice. Both times resulting in the death of a video card (different cards than above). Be sure to secure those wires carefully.
I think that your radiator is inadequate for cooling a 226W peltier. I used a big single pass radiator which fit four fans (two push, two pull), and was able to keep my video cards under a 172W pelt at around ~10C under a very heavy overvolt and load. I would recommend more radiatorage.
Oh, and one last thing - the heat which an efficient peltier setup dumps will actually have quite an impact on the ambient temperature the room your computer is kept in, when run for more than a few hours. Either use a large room, or expect to pay more money for air conditioning. Or do it in the winter and keep the windows open / room fans on full blast.
To summarize, really and seriously, peltiers are extremely dangerous, inefficient, and expensive (due to all the mid/high end water kit you need, the electrical costs, the cost of a PSU, the cost of a relay, etc.). So much can go horribly wrong. To boot, if you set up your peltier water loop in a slipshod manner, without using the best radiator setup you can get, your temperature results won't be that great on a modern CPU.
You are much better off investing in a phase change system. Lower price overall, superior ease of use, and superior results. And it is way safer.
If you mess it up, you will kill hardware.
Some other things you should be aware of:
You will need a dedicated power supply to power the peltier.
Peltiers are highly inefficient and use a lot of electricity for what you get.
You will need a foolproof automatic relay to start up your peltier's PSU at the same time as the computer. Do not rely on plugging/unplugging the PSU manually. You will forget to plug/unplug it eventually, and bad things will happen. I cannot emphasize this enough. A good relay unit for the peltier PSU is perhaps the most important part of your setup. I stress this because of personal experience, I lost a video card when I got sloppy with my bench setup and stopped using my relay during bench runs - I forgot to unplug it once the system pump powered off with the computer.
Be extremely careful with the peltier's leads (wires). They are prone to breaking off and pulling out of the peltier if a signifigant amount of pressure is placed on them. Even a small amount of pressure over a long period of time can pull the pelt's wiring out, and bad things happen when those live leads are loose in your case. Not to mention that the pelt won't be powered if they pull out. I mention this because it has happened to me twice. Both times resulting in the death of a video card (different cards than above). Be sure to secure those wires carefully.
I think that your radiator is inadequate for cooling a 226W peltier. I used a big single pass radiator which fit four fans (two push, two pull), and was able to keep my video cards under a 172W pelt at around ~10C under a very heavy overvolt and load. I would recommend more radiatorage.
Oh, and one last thing - the heat which an efficient peltier setup dumps will actually have quite an impact on the ambient temperature the room your computer is kept in, when run for more than a few hours. Either use a large room, or expect to pay more money for air conditioning. Or do it in the winter and keep the windows open / room fans on full blast.
To summarize, really and seriously, peltiers are extremely dangerous, inefficient, and expensive (due to all the mid/high end water kit you need, the electrical costs, the cost of a PSU, the cost of a relay, etc.). So much can go horribly wrong. To boot, if you set up your peltier water loop in a slipshod manner, without using the best radiator setup you can get, your temperature results won't be that great on a modern CPU.
You are much better off investing in a phase change system. Lower price overall, superior ease of use, and superior results. And it is way safer.
OP
- Joined
- Jan 9, 2007
- Thread Starter
- #12
felinusz, some nice info there.
regarding the two psu coming on together, ive seen somewhere online where i can splice the 2nd into the 1st so that they come on together. another option might be to get another plug socket, cut the two plugs off the power leads for the psu and then join the 2 lives, 2 earths and 2 neutrals.. wonder if the 13A fuse will hold that? lol
i do understand what your saying, and dont think i havnt thought about everything (well everything i know of). im the sort of person that has a tumbling thought process, i will think of one thing that will lead me to try and work stuff out which will lead me to think about more things etc.
the bit where you say its 'peltiers are extremely dangerous, inefficient, and expensive' makes me wanna do it anyway lol
regarding the two psu coming on together, ive seen somewhere online where i can splice the 2nd into the 1st so that they come on together. another option might be to get another plug socket, cut the two plugs off the power leads for the psu and then join the 2 lives, 2 earths and 2 neutrals.. wonder if the 13A fuse will hold that? lol
i do understand what your saying, and dont think i havnt thought about everything (well everything i know of). im the sort of person that has a tumbling thought process, i will think of one thing that will lead me to try and work stuff out which will lead me to think about more things etc.
the bit where you say its 'peltiers are extremely dangerous, inefficient, and expensive' makes me wanna do it anyway lol
