I am ready to dance with the penguin

I've got 3 hard drives, all different sizes and speeds, so I figure I might as well give linux a whack. That penguin just sits on his butt and looks all smug. I want to see what the fuss is about (I haven't slept in 2 days here guys cut me some slack on the lack of humor).

Anyways, some Linux-queries I've got:

-Is it going to be a pain in the *** to learn? I'm a windows person. Every time I try to use OSX I go "What? Oh right. No I didn't want to do that. Huh?"

-drivers=pain in the *** to find?

-is the base user functionality the same? IE, I can post on forums, surf, get email, compose simple documents, watch streaming video on youtube and 'other' sites, while all the while reducing and or eliminating the likelihood of getting a virus..

Also which version of Linux is most noob-friendly? Where do I get it? What's the install process?

Thanks guys

Theocnoob said:

Anyways, some Linux-queries I've got:

-Is it going to be a pain in the *** to learn? I'm a windows person. Every time I try to use OSX I go "What? Oh right. No I didn't want to do that. Huh?"

Click to expand...

Well I am not quite sure what you mean by this but if you are looking for a free version of Windows, linux may not be for you.

KDE distros may be the most friendly for you, but overall both OSX and Linux are not Windows and going in with that expectation will leave you disappointed

Theocnoob said:

-drivers=pain in the *** to find?

Click to expand...

This is mostly a non-issue. Wireless is the weakpoint but has gotten a ton better. Lexmark printers are also a sore spot.

ATI video cards I can't really speak to but my understanding is that the support is coming along but not very satisfying at this point

Nvidia and Intel both have good driver support (both for video, chipset and wireless)

Theocnoob said:

-is the base user functionality the same? IE, I can post on forums, surf, get email, compose simple documents, watch streaming video on youtube and 'other' sites, while all the while reducing and or eliminating the likelihood of getting a virus..

Click to expand...

Yup, I do everything with my linux install taken myself through 8 years of university and 2 of college without skipping a beat. In fact when I use Windows I tend to find it very limiting by comparison.

Theocnoob said:

Also which version of Linux is most noob-friendly? Where do I get it? What's the install process?

Click to expand...

In order of my personal recommendations:

Linux Mint, Ubuntu, MoonOS/OpenGEU, and PcLos.
A simple google search will pull up all of these. As to the install process. Click click click click finish.

It will auto-detect Windows and for some of the things will import settings (although I dont know how well this works as I rarely have windows on a computer I have linux on)

On my Core Duo 1.86 ghz, 4200 rpm hd and 4 gigs of ram, Linux Mint 7 takes a total of 6 minutes to install (2 for clicking through the menu and 4 for the actual install part when installed without an internet conenction)

Thanks man

Theocnoob said:

Thanks man

Click to expand...

well look on the bright side you found the best places for linux help

-Is it going to be a pain in the *** to learn? I'm a windows person. Every time I try to use OSX I go "What? Oh right. No I didn't want to do that. Huh?"

Click to expand...

The learning curve depends on how willing you are to stick with it until you learn how it goes. The easier it is to switch back to what you know, the more difficult it will be to get used to linux.

-drivers=pain in the *** to find?

Click to expand...

If you can avoid ATi, you'll most likely be just fine. If you must go with ATi, cross your fingers, read through the man pages of aticonfig, and hope for the best. My experience has been that with enough tweaking, my ATi card does actually work, it was just a PITA to get it working.

-is the base user functionality the same? IE, I can post on forums, surf, get email, compose simple documents, watch streaming video on youtube and 'other' sites, while all the while reducing and or eliminating the likelihood of getting a virus..

Click to expand...

The browser level is pretty much identical across all platforms, except for maybe the stability of flash. If you have issues, don't be afraid to try different browsers. Opera then Chromium work best for me, while everybody else in linux land seems to swear by firefox. I think firefox 3 and up are absolute trash.

Also which version of Linux is most noob-friendly? Where do I get it? What's the install process?

Click to expand...

Probably Mint or Sabayon, as they come with all the "good stuff" (like flash, mp3, dvd support etc.) built in.

Mint is built on top of Ubuntu while Sabayon is built on top of Gentoo. The more common route is probably with Mint, but I'd recommend Sabayon.

My ATI 4830 worked with two clicks to enable proprietary drivers, the only pain after that was that the display properties page froze, which they've since fixed.

This is Ubuntu 9.04.

I'd go with Ubuntu, or Kubuntu. Ati driver, either just work (couple clicks) or your are screwed. I've been in both situations. I've had ATI drivers that simple installed as easy as nvidia drivers. Then I've had ones where no matter what I did I could not get 3d accelerations or direct rendering, 2d performance sucked. Reinstalled the driver a few times and it finally installed itself correctly.

Thats the problem with proprietary drivers and software when things go wrong you don't have a lot of options.

Ubuntu is pretty much even more "just works" than windows. The whole goal for ubuntu was a debian distro that "Just worked". Unless you have an uncommon wireless card then everything should work right out of the box.

Openoffice.org replaces MS office. Even in windows I use openoffice. I have openoffice portable on my flash drive, I don't ever us MS office anymore.

Flashplayer works pretty good, there is even a 64bit edition for linux, there is no 64bit for windows yet

Install vlc and the vlc plugin for firefox and you'll be able to play any video or music file (except real player).

Full screen video is my only gripe with ubuntu (maybe linux in general, don't know).
I can't play anything full screen with smooth results, not dvds (jerky), not flash (really jerky), not avi/mpgs (crashes). Don't know what the problem is, but it's annoying having to reboot to XP to watch full screen stuff.
As far as i can tell the decoders just aren't very efficient, they peg my e5200(even at 3.7ghz) at full screen, and peg my n270 atom even in a window. In XP both can do full screen whatever just fine.

Aside from that, i use ubuntu as my daily OS and just keep XP around for gaming and such.

You have to be willing to fiddle with things if you want something that isn't included in the distro or in the apt-get archives, sometimes it's easy and sometimes it is a pain, but it can almost always be done somehow. Compare that to windows where things generally work ok, but if they don't work you're flat out of luck. Personally, i like the linux way where you can google and google and fiddle and fiddle and eventually make it work.
Or completely trash the install, as the case may be. If you have the HDD space i recommend a seperate partition that mounts to /home, that is where all your personal files go (/home/theocnoob, or whatever) so you can nuke the OS and start over without risking data loss. I lost some stuff (nothing important, though frustrating because some of it was rather good porn) when i was first playing with ubuntu because i wanted to try kubuntu and did the apt-get kubuntu (roughly speaking) method. Apparently, it didn't work in the RC, the result i got was something that wouldn't even boot.
So yeah, back up your files before you start fiddling (with multiple HDDs this is easy), and have a blast, it's fun being able to customize things. Plus FAH SMP runs way faster in ubuntu then it does in vista

I'm going to give xubuntu 9.10 beta a whirl later on my dads amd 810, see if it cranks out fahsmp any faster.
Blahblahblahblah, blah. And stuff



EDIT:
BTW the ATI drivers for my dads HD3300 IGP work great too, no issues at all, two clicks and done.
It might be older hardware (hd3xxx, 2xxx, etc.) that have problems, i really don't know.

2.EDIT:
Couple useful things, if you want to edit system files in the notepadish thing, open a console (apps, acc. terminal. I put a link in the quick launch bar) use sudo (which runs whatever you're about to do as the superuser root god thing dude person account) gedit.
To muck with system files (easy to break things here) hit "sudo nautilus". Both may or may not be different in Xubuntu and Kubuntu, i don't know.
Some people believe that the above info shouldn't be given out to newbies, i say Bah! to that, you can't learn without breaking things

I'll +1 for Mint then Ubuntu.

Agree that the full screen decoders suck, they eat processing power like Homer Simpson at the all you can eat buffet. I've got a 2.2Ghz AMD X2 w/ 2Gb RAM with Ubuntu 9.04 and anything streamed full screen is choppy, though once downloaded it's smooth. (no it's not my internet; speedtest.net just pegged me at 15.82 Mb/s download and .78 Mb/s upload) However on my server (which I set up this week with Mint7) it runs really smooth, no issues at all. So that could be distro specific.

curtis1552 said:

I'll +1 for Mint then Ubuntu.

Agree that the full screen decoders suck, they eat processing power like Homer Simpson at the all you can eat buffet. I've got a 2.2Ghz AMD X2 w/ 2Gb RAM with Ubuntu 9.04 and anything streamed full screen is choppy, though once downloaded it's smooth. (no it's not my internet; speedtest.net just pegged me at 15.82 Mb/s download and .78 Mb/s upload) However on my server (which I set up this week with Mint7) it runs really smooth, no issues at all. So that could be distro specific.

Click to expand...

I have a mix of Nvidia and Intel graphics and have never noticed any problem with the above or any other fullscreen problems mentioned in this thread. I would posit that its an ATI issue

Stratus_ss said:

I have a mix of Nvidia and Intel graphics and have never noticed any problem with the above or any other fullscreen problems mentioned in this thread. I would posit that its an ATI issue

Click to expand...

I been pretty much never had this issue the others speak of. Now other bugs, sure. The full screen stutter, nope. I use the Gxine for most of my video needs. With the Master of the known universe options opened up. I find and test which codecs / settings work good for me and my application(s.) Or as I put it weapon of choice.
I do have the advantage of a little bit knowledge, past most newer Linux users and try out things for myself. Sometimes it is enough to break stuff, sometimes I find that magical combination. What works for you the Linux reader. May not work for me. And you can honestly say back at cha, to me.
No two Linux machines are alike. I like that.

Now if it is a Flash video issue. That is NOT Linux.. Square on Adobe for that one. Though I haven't had a flash issue in ages now.


The only real issue I can say sucks. Is when a keyboard or a mouse does not work as you expect. Other issues are pretty simple to find out what you need to do. Or simply cp a fix.

As a post-staunch Windows user. I can say this and be pretty spot on. Any issues you face in Linux. Hunting for a fix, and workarounds. Will be about the same level of frustration (or not.) As would be for Windows. I dealt and will deal with some pretty hard Windows issues. Most go back to Windows since it is.. More comfortable to resolve issues in a way they are used to.
Once you get the used how to do basic navigation in Linux. It is not hard or as hard as Windows to troubleshoot. Plus in many ways you are allowed to make the needed fixes. Unlike Windows, sometimes it is like pulling teeth for something simple like a driver issue. Or a system file issue.
The hardest part is terminology Linux uses. Versus the Windows terminology. As silly as this sounds. After you use Linux for a while. You start to see what the commands mean. Most of it is shorthand. cp is copy. rn is rename.. rm is remove.. cd change directory.. ls [LS] I just think it means list sh##.. But it does not mean that.. But the idea is there. You start to see patterns pretty fast if your a smart computer user. Heck in some versions. The chances of you needing to know basic syntax is pretty low.

What is funny. I used to be uncomfortable using Linux. I was so hip on Windows and knew it very well. As I kept using Linux. I am more comfy putting around in it. Windows feels stuffy and wrong to me now. Though I do use it without hesitation.

One of the coolest things I read from newer or potential Linux trier outers.. Is they think they will need to hunt for drivers.. Then they find out stuff works or it does not. No need to hunt down driver stuff.

As the culture of Linux matures. It is not a bad thing to ask for help for simple things you would like to do. Rarely do you see the RTFM anymore. Most of us Windows2Linux converts know and understand the Linux teething part.

Stratus_ss said:

I have a mix of Nvidia and Intel graphics and have never noticed any problem with the above or any other fullscreen problems mentioned in this thread. I would posit that its an ATI issue

Click to expand...

It's a negative for being ATI. Since I started Linus I've only used Nvidia. It's really not a horrible issue, but it is noticeable. The computer with the issue is an AMD 4200+, my server is running two dual core Xeons, so it could be compatability between AMD and Nvidia whereas the Intel and Nvidia work better together. (or distro specific, i've been on Ubuntu for ages, and haven't used any other for more than a week or so)

Ok guys so Im going to do this when i get home tonight.

Im going to try Ubuntu because more people have suggested it than mint.

Please tell me what I do.

Im dual boot XP 32 right now.

Do I download it and launch from the drive I wish to install to OR do I download and launch from the OTHER drive?

How does this work? Never linuxed...

Thanks guys

Dont treat Linux like you would Windows, theyre 2 totally different animals. I switched from Windows to Linux cold turkey, with no prior Linux experience. This happened 2 years ago, as I was fed up with Windows driver issues. A friend of mine turned me on to Debian, and Ive been hooked since. Now everytime I use Windows I feel like Im using a dumbed down OS...things are sloppy, and you are severely limited in what you can do. I like having complete control over my systems, and having a broad community to help me out when an issue arises.

Burn a cd, slap it in the drive, and hit the "try without mucking with the computer" option.
Play with it, if you want to play more there is an Install Ubuntu icon on the desktop.

The default theme is horrid, there are better ones built in.

Bobnova said:

The default theme is horrid, there are better ones built in.

Click to expand...

What, you don't like your desktop reminding you of used toilet paper???

Theocnoob said:

Ok guys so Im going to do this when i get home tonight.

Im going to try Ubuntu because more people have suggested it than mint.

Please tell me what I do.

Im dual boot XP 32 right now.

Do I download it and launch from the drive I wish to install to OR do I download and launch from the OTHER drive?

How does this work? Never linuxed...

Thanks guys

Click to expand...

Ok, I just got back on the site.

You want to download the ISO, then burn that image to a disc. Keep in mind. If you do not know how to properly burn an image. Don't just drag and drop it to the burner. You need to burn it as a an image. Otherwise it will not be able to boot. It will be treated as a data disc.
Another option is to install it in a virtual machine. Which is my suggestion for now. This is even less effort to check out and have a full Linux going, and not deal with a dual boot sequence. Once you get used to Linux, or decide it is to your liking. Then commit to a real install.
Or you could burn the image and use it in a Live disc environment. The LiveCD/LiveDVD is the simplest way to have a way to look and then if you want, install it on a disc.
Yet another option, is to burn the image to disc. Then use Wubi. Pretty much this is an install withing Windows. You can install it while in Windows. Or uninstall it within Windows.
This would be a good option for a daemon tools and the like. Using/mounting that ISO image.
Word pf advice. While Wubi is ok, and works good. It is not the preferred method of installation. It is a super easy way to try it out on disk.

Yes Linux plays well with anybody. If you give it a chance. Long as you do not go to fast thinking how and what your going to do. Keep in mind. Your machine is not a nuclear reactor. So take your time and research information. Gather what you need, get it in place. You will find that patience will pay off and make a nice experience.

It all depends what you want to do. Ubuntu is pretty easy but drives me nuts because it isn't a rolling release... i.e. you are stuck with really old versions of software sometimes (I guess that is the norm for Windows anyways...). It is pretty simple to use though.

Drivers are nowhere near as bad as they were. Try to choose Linux friendly hardware. In general, nVidia and Intel anything (chipsets, graphics, wireless/wired network adapters, whatever) have very good support. AMD is fine too, but ATI is tougher. Avoid if you can. If you don't care about 3d acceleration, it won't be bad, if you do, it is hit or miss, and if you want every feature to work (e.g. tv out, multiple monitors, etc.) then definitely go nvidia or intel.

Printers usually work ok. Some better than others. Brother has excellent Linux support, releasing drivers for all products that support all features. That is why I own 2 brother products, a black and white laser and a color multifunction laser (scanner/fax/etc).

MRD, Intel just got past the regression for the graphics. It was a really bad one. AMD actually was doing better than Intel in this regard for a little bit. Bumping up to a .30 kernel in Ubun-too .. Yeah a joke.. Serious. Ubuntu 9.04, adding the 2.6.30.xx kernel didn't help a lot with how bad it was.
Come this October 29^th. Most Intel users are going to be happy. If the ConTeam gets it right. Right now, there is some very quirky things going on. Mint users will get the same.. When they fork their side of it.

9.04 is the better release. But for Intel graphics, your going to have to go with Karmic. Which is the 2.6.31-11 kernel. At least at this writing.

CONFUSED!!

I've never burned, read, or successfully done ANYTHING with an ISO.

I can't just like, put an actual bootable file on an external HD, reboot, tell my bios to boot from said HD and shazaam?

I have to burn a CD? (so 1999) Seriously?

There's no other way to do this? Do I have to use an ISO?

Can I like, download an actual executable to HD A and have it install linux onto HD B?

??