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220v vs 110v?

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4GHZ_or_bust

Now 6GHz or Bust!
Joined
Aug 1, 2002
Location
Michigan
I just thought of something, is there any real difference in the PSU's output quality when you plug it into 220v outlet vs 110v outlet?

I kind of doubt that it's 100% identical output regardless of input voltage. ie always 3A at 220v and 6A at 110v and output are both the same in max DC current, minimal ripple, and same efficiency.

Has any PC Mythbuster covered this at all?
 
if i could i would rather have 220v in my house then 110v. yea it would make the psu more efficient with the higher voltage. other things that will matter is how clean the AC voltage is, as in how much background noise it has in it, etc.
 
You arent actually using 220 though, it has to be stepped down to 12v 5v etc..so possibly more inefficient. More of a stepdown.

If it was a motor running at 220 vs 110 it would be more efficient, having missed a level of stepdown.

EE people chime in.
 
You arent actually using 220 though, it has to be stepped down to 12v 5v etc..so possibly more inefficient. More of a stepdown.

If it was a motor running at 220 vs 110 it would be more efficient, having missed a level of stepdown.

EE people chime in.

actually it isnt more inefficient to use 220v... a wider voltage swing is better for psu's even if it has to be stepped down... well to be more accurate AC first has to be converted to DC, this conversion process helps make the psu more efficient with a higher AC input voltage. even if 220V is only a few % points higher then 110v, to some it could mean a fair amount of savings depending on the psu. since depending on how the conversion is being done from AC to DC it could be higher %, its all about the different ways that can be used to convert AC to DC.

http://www.hardwarecanucks.com/forum/power-supplies/19117-110v-vs-220v-comparison.html
 
Well, Hmm depends on what type of coils they use to step down the voltage.... I would assume there are some efficiently losses in the step down process but whether or not they are equal, that is a big question. I would suspect when you flip the switch to 220 you are switching the power to go through coils where the winding ratio is much greater, so if the process of building the step down transformer is the same, except in the 220V process it would have a higher ratio, I don't think the amount of turns on the coils would cause it to be any more or less efficient, but since it is coming from a higher voltage there might be more loss.

For those who don't know power supply just makes a sinasoidal (Alternating current) to a flat line, and larger voltage might not necessarily require more parts, just tweaked commponents, to accomidate the larger voltage swing.

So here is a quick demo of how a power supply works,

first stage is to step down the voltage, then rectify it. Which pretty making take a sine function and take the absolute value of it. (There is more to this, just making it easier to understand) After this, the some parts are used to step to flatten the curve This picture demonstrates it.

600px-Gratz.rectifier.en.svg.png

The only difference that they don't show from the left to the right is the rights amplitude should be much less, to the same DC value in which you are trying to drop it down too. From here, the voltage is conditioned to be a straight

The step down part takes place in left side of the circuit diagram. the way this works is one side has more coils than the other side, and depending on the ratio of the turns, the voltage would step down by that ratio. so if they use a 10:1 ratio or 18:1 ratio, i don't there there is going to be any difference in efficiency except the fact that there will be more loss since its at a higher voltage. However i could be wrong as this is a very VERY simple power supply and at best its 40-50% efficient. (But it is only made out of like 5-10 components, a few bucks.... ) but i suppose the general process is the same... I could be wrong, im only a student =P
 
Double checked with my professor, transformers can be 98+ 99 % efficient So there is no difference if you step down from 220 --> 12 or 120-> 12....

:soda:
 
I should count myself lucky then, we get around 240V from the wall sockets here.
 
For my 2p's worth, having 230v run across the arms wasn't fun. But if it was 110 wouldnt the ampage be higher and as such more dangerous?
 
For my 2p's worth, having 230v run across the arms wasn't fun. But if it was 110 wouldnt the ampage be higher and as such more dangerous?

The amount of volts does not really matter, it's the amount of amps that are a available.. I know with welding we 220v because it supply more amps so we can weld heavier thickness of metal..
 
The amount of volts does not really matter, it's the amount of amps that are a available.. I know with welding we 220v because it supply more amps so we can weld heavier thickness of metal..

Well...yes and no. Sorry if this is what you're trying to get at, but voltage is a currents ability to overcome resistance. With a higher voltage, you can get a higher current through something with a set amount of resistance. With welding, you probably have a set resistance in the circuit (just guessing), so by doubling the voltage, you are able to double the amount of current running through the system which probably generates more heat and allows you to weld the thicker metal.
 
I used to tig weld. We had some fun. Sometimes getting sun burnt from the UV rays. Sometimes getting electrocuted where we hadn't earthed the work correctly. I used to fabricate custom stainless exhausts from straight tube and bend it in a bender. I remember once trying to weld on top of a joint between the chassis and the tube and my head was squeezed between the car ramp and the underneath of the car. Im not sure what kept happening but an ARC kept forming from my neck to the chipped paint metal of the ramp. It hurt.
Welding is cool.
In general if you have a higher voltage but the same wattage the current is lower. I've always incorrectly pictured voltage as the velocity of the electrons. Then Ive always incorrectly pictured current as the "package" the electrons carry with them. It makes sense to me this way but my tutor says I was wrong.
 
The step down part takes place in left side of the circuit diagram. the way this works is one side has more coils than the other side, and depending on the ratio of the turns, the voltage would step down by that ratio. so if they use a 10:1 ratio or 18:1 ratio, i don't there there is going to be any difference in efficiency except the fact that there will be more loss since its at a higher voltage. However i could be wrong as this is a very VERY simple power supply and at best its 40-50% efficient. (But it is only made out of like 5-10 components, a few bucks.... ) but i suppose the general process is the same... I could be wrong, im only a student =P
A transformer and bridge rectifier are pretty efficient - that's not where the losses are. Transformers lose approximately nothing, and you do lose a little bit of voltage across the diodes in the rectifier.

Inefficiencies come from converting the rectified wave to a clean DC voltage. Generally you'll use some big capacitors to smooth out some ripple prior to a regulator, and those caps will pass some AC current. Then, the regular will drop some voltage to keep its transistors in regulation - you'll usually drop a couple of volts there.

So, if I was building a 12v supply, I would do something like this:

12V transformer, which will give me ~15v peak output. Rectify that, and I have about 14V left over. That's good, because I want about 2v of headroom for my regulator to stay in regulation, which will output a steady 12V.

Then, if you really want to be picky, you can account for all the resistances you're incurring along the way with wires, filter chokes, the transformer, etc, which will all dump some power as heat. The result is that 80% efficiency is actually pretty decent considering all the losses along the way.

As you try to move that 80% closer to 90%, you run into a lot of problems. You need more expensive, lower resistance parts to avoid throwing away power along the transmission path. You need higher gauge transformers, which are expensive simply because of the amount of copper you're using. They get bigger, too. You've got to upgrade all the wire, and things get more difficult as everything gets thicker. You need a more efficient regulator, and there are limits to how small you can make the bias voltage for a single transistor - as they get smaller and require less bias voltage, they get harder to cool and can't pass as much current. Physics demand that you drop at least some voltage across your bridge rectifier and regulator, so you can't get away from that. And the closer you push these things to their limit (less regulator voltage drop means less headroom and less margin of error) the more likely little bumps in power supply or demand will drop the whole circuit out of regulation and fry or shut down the supply.
 
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