Convincing

Some people don't think that building a computer yourself is a really bad idea and will cost you twice the amount it would be to buy from a supplier. Others think the supplier is the best way to go. Having never built a computer i don't know who to believe. What are your opinions on this?

one of the biggest deciding factors for many people on these forums is the overclockability of the mainstream computers you get from manufacturers. many computers you buy from dell, hp, etc have very limited settings in the bios which leaves you little to no room when it comes to overclocking. that basically means that you will need to build your own. for some people, they just want to build the system from scratch and it just how they like to do things. many systems you buy from manufacturers are also made to be silent which often comes with a trade-off of higher temperatures so if a system does have the ability to be overclocked, you will likely not be able to obtain as high of an overclock as well.

if i was looking at getting my parents a new computer, sure i would go look at a manufacturer instead of building it myself. for them, it is the most bang for the buck. they don't need a computer overclocked. they just need it to work. it all depends on what you are wanting to get out of a system.

I have to agree with mbently here. It does really depend on what the user is wanting from the machine. Lets face it. Some people are just after a budget PC and are not wanting to spend more than $400-500 on a PC. For those people I suggest a manufacturer as the manufacturer can get a better deal and the user will have a PC that works. They just have to understand that they get what they are paying for; a low end low cost PC. I am a big fan of building your own. It seems like you end up getting more for your money. The trade off is warranty in some cases. More so ease of warranty. Instead of just dealing with Dell or HP you end up having to go though the part manufacturer or vendor that you purchased from. Not a big deal in the long run but some people get stuck thinking that they don't have a warranty because it isn't from a "computer manufacturer" for lack of a term. I still feel like you save about $200-300 building your own once you get into the right price bracket. You are going to have to search the deals though to save that money.

As mbently and I both stated. It really comes down to what the user wants from the machine.

Pro's I found in building my own:
1) As said above, you can hand pick quality parts with warranties that a lot of the time far exceed the warranties of a manufactured PC.

2) Motherboards on mainstream manufactured PCs most of the time have very little info available.

3) Upgradeablility. If you want to add an aftermarket VGA for games, you will more than likely need to upgrade the PSU as well.

4) Windows. I would much rather have a System builders version of Windows that I can Install on whatever PC I want as opposed to the pre-installation versions that can only be used on that one specific manufactured PC. As well as it is a clean version of windows without all the thrown in 3rd party trialware.

5) The feeling I got when it was done and the fun and knowledge I picked up along the way.

My friend was in the market for a PC and found one he liked at Best Buy. I offered to build one for him, and came out ahead on price, quality, performance, appearance (he got to pick out his own case) and warranty(s).

gargant said:

Some people don't think that building a computer yourself is a really bad idea and will cost you twice the amount it would be to buy from a supplier.

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You've got those backwards. Buying from an OEM will get you half the parts at twice the price.

Also, the parts will be crapp.

+Bloatware
+Bastardized reinstall CD
+low/no tweakability
+possibly bastardized (look term up wikipedia) OEM motherboard mounts/electrical connections, etc etc

We're better tech support than a bored guy in India by the way.

Theocnoob said:

You've got those backwards. Buying from an OEM will get you half the parts at twice the price.

Also, the parts will be crapp.

+Bloatware
+Bastardized reinstall CD
+low/no tweakability
+possibly bastardized (look term up wikipedia) OEM motherboard mounts/electrical connections, etc etc

We're better tech support than a bored guy in India by the way.

Click to expand...

that is why they can sell their computers so inexpensively. they are paid to install trials of apps on the systems they sell. the first thing i would always do would be a full format using a copy of windows (assuming you want to run windows )

Sorry for not replying. lots of stuff going on.
I have decided to build my own. I can save more money and get a better machine in the long run this way. I'm going to go through Newegg, it seems like the best supplier for most parts. And is well within my price range. Has anyone gotten anything from them? Do they ship in one big box or lots of little ones. And should i stay at home for a few days just to make sure to catch them at the door?

If you can afford to stay at home for a few days you should do it anyways.. beef up your starcraft II skills .

Everyone here has ordered something from newegg. It arrives alive. Usually on the correct date or near it. Their packaging could be a bit better... Not the greatest at packing to prevent damage. Given that you're in Canada like me you know how crappy couriers are here. In the US you're much more likely to receive a mint box.

I got a soundcard from www.newegg.ca

It works. No issues. Came on the right day. Most people have similar stories.

Build on an 1155 socket P67 motherboard with a 2500K or 2600K CPU. There is NO better value for the money and nothing can out perform these CPUs until you spend almost $600 more and even then it's a crappshoot.

What is your pre-tax/shipping/etc budget?

Student budget. 650-700. Im thinking:

CPU - AMD Phenom II X2 555
http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819103846&Tpk=hdz555wfgmbox

MoBo - GIGABYTE GA-880GM-D2H
http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128458&Tpk=gigabyte ga-880gm-d2h am3 amd

PSU - CORSAIR Builder Series
http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817139018&Tpk=CMPSU-500cx

Case - COOLER MASTER Storm Scout (spend more the first time. reuse it.)
http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811119196

HD - 500GB samsung spinpoint
http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822152181&Tpk=samsung spinpoint f3 hd502hj

RAM - G.SKILL Ripjaws Series 4GB
http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231274&Tpk=f3-10666cl9d-4gbrl

DVD drive - SAMSUNG Black 22X DVD+R
http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16827151188

Im not going to buy a GPU now. im saving up for one in particular.
http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814130591
Ill get it in a few weeks or so.

Noooo. That CPU is about as good as a stripped copper wire and a walnut.

Also, that GPU sucks. The SE version of the GTX 460 is a weaker card than the standard version.

What you should do, is get yourself a 2500K ($250) and a decent mobo ($160) and RAM ($50) and a hard drive ($50) and an optical drive ($25) and a CX 600 PSU ($80) and an Antec 300 case (also reusable!) ($60). That's a little over $600. Now you need windows 7 OEM if you dont have it ($100) and a GPU ($150-200).

So you might want to save up a bit more.

The performance difference between YOUR system and a 2500K system is about a factor of ten. Literally. Don't buy garbage you won't be impressed.

Without the windows 7 or a gpu a 2500k at my door will cost me 950. Save a bit more. whow. A lot more. I meant 650-700 taxes/shipping in. I thought my build was alright though.

any way to keep that below 700? taxes in?

gargant said:

Without the windows 7 or a gpu a 2500k at my door will cost me 950. Save a bit more. whow. A lot more. I meant 650-700 taxes/shipping in. I thought my build was alright though.

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No it won't. You did the wrong config. With a 560Ti and Win7 64 on a UD3P and that same case came out to 999 when I did a config for a friend. + tax +shipping. Take the GPU and Windows out ($350) and that's a big difference.

Your config was ok in that it would have functioned. In terms of actually getting anything done, no.

You can't make a good computer for less than about $850, and that's going to cut some corners. You can make a very good system for $1000 (this is all pre tax) and an excellent system for $1300 and a Death Star control panel for about $2000.

If you want something for 700 all in, you MIGHT be able to squeeze into a 955BE on a really low end board and a low end PSU/CASE/GPU/HD but unless you desperately need a new system tommorow, I think you're better off putting a few hundred extra together. The performance gains are exponential, not incremental. It's worth it.

955 150
mobo 120 270
psu 70 340
ram 50 390
HD 40 430
op 25 455
case 60 515
win 7 100 615

That's a bleh AM3 system, still no GPU, with no corners left to cut unless you want to jeopardize the O/C stability of the board. Add the GPU you're at LEAST at 755+tax

Considering all you need to do is throw an extra $100 at the CPU and an extra $40 at the motherboard to get into a 2500K system when it's double+ the performance, you should do it.

Going with the 2500k and building a good computer what parts would you recommend? i couldn't find a great mobo to fit the the sandy bridge.

http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813130574&cm_re=1155-_-13-130-574-_-Product

MSI GD65 is the board I'd go with based on what is in stock now. New boards are arriving all the time.

1155 only came out in January and there was a stepping issue with the SATA ports which meant there was a delay in distribution as B3 stepping boards were distributed. The issue is now solved but 1155 socket boards will be scarce for a little while longer.

If the Gigabyte UD3P or UD4/5/7 come back in stock I'd grab one of those. I built a system for a friend on the UD3P (the black one not the blue one) and was happy with it. Especially for the price.

Don't buy parts without making sure they're the right ones, but if you do, make sure it is a P67 board and not an H67 board. Those do not overclock. Hence the cheapness.

You have chosen wisely. Nothing outperforms the 2500K for the money. Nothing even comes close. It also overclocks usually to 5Ghz easily.

As far as other parts, you have the option of faster and more expensive or slower and still decent and cheaper.

Example, WD Black series hard drive, blu ray drive, 2000Mhz CL7 RAM is going to cost more than WD Green series drive, DVD-R drive, 1600Mhz CL9 RAM. It's all what you want to spend on the rest of the parts. The same goes for the GPU. The $300 GPU is faster than the $150 GPU but what do you want in terms of cost vs performance. If we're trying to keep this as cheap as possible I'd stick to the cheaper hard drive and optical drive for now but don't cheap out on the RAM as it is a very critical part of the system. You can always get a garbage $20 place holder GPU for the time being and save up $250 for a good one later.

There might be a few other options.

(1) What is your current PC (manufacturer and model - or if you can link the specs from the manufacturers site that would be more convenient).
I ask this because if you are willing, some components may be reusable for the time being possibly saving you a lot up front.
(2) What are you planning to do with this computer? A lot of high end games? Autocadd? Video editing? HTCP?
(3) Are you interested at all in OC'ing?
(4) What are your expectations? i.e. Top of the line, most demanding games with most graphic settings on high, online gamer only.
(5) WHats your budget

Maybe list a few games you currently play or are interested in.

byrdawg said:

There might be a few other options.

(1) What is your current PC (manufacturer and model - or if you can link the specs from the manufacturers site that would be more convenient).
I ask this because if you are willing, some components may be reusable for the time being possibly saving you a lot up front.
(2) What are you planning to do with this computer? A lot of high end games? Autocadd? Video editing? HTCP?
(3) Are you interested at all in OC'ing?
(4) What are your expectations? i.e. Top of the line, most demanding games with most graphic settings on high, online gamer only.
(5) WHats your budget

Maybe list a few games you currently play or are interested in.

Click to expand...

Are you on www.[U]overclockers[/U].com trying to talk someone out of a SB?
Don't get the best overclocking on air, coolest running, highest performing per clock CPU with the best memory controller? ? My brain hurts.

We already know his budget btw. We've decided that going above said budget is warranted for the speed gains of an 1155 system.

He's a programmer. Odds are he plays games too given the specs we're aiming at here AFAIK.

Theocnoob said:

Are you on www.[U]overclockers[/U].com trying to talk someone out of a SB?

I said, and I quote "Might be a few other options."

Don't get the best overclocking on air, coolest running, highest performing per clock CPU with the best memory controller? ?

No where did I say do not get. If he was in the market for a car as a student would you tell him he has to get a Ferari even though he'll never need to have it over 70mph?

My brain hurts.

It might be from putting words in my mouth, assuming things, and talking down towards folks.

We already know his budget btw. We've decided that going above said budget is warranted for the speed gains of an 1155 system.

From the way the posts read, the budget he gave could be read as he may or may not have included a gpu in it. So no, BTW we are not clear on a budget.

He's a programmer. Odds are he plays games too given the specs we're aiming at here AFAIK.

I may have missed something, but no where did I see him claim to be a programmer. However, I saw his picture, which could just be a funny/fitting pic he came across and used it, or maybe he just taught himself to program phone apps for some to try to make a dime on Android Market, which I doubt you need a beast of a computer to program. Hence why I ask for specific information.

Sorry if I misread your intentions and my response seems harsh OC, but I took your reply a little personal, as if you were calling me an idiot in a way that the forums would allow.

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Gargant, I asked about your current pc situation because you may be able to upgrade in steps if you are not set in keeping whatever you currently have intact. You may be able to use your current case, hard drive (hopefully it is a 7200rpm sata), and optical drive. This will save at least a hundred or so initially and not have much impact on performance. Things such as the mentioned can be held off and until you come across a shell shocker.

You might also wait a week or so and build around your gpu. Last couple of weeks newegg has had a couple really good gpu shell shockers. Might end up saving quite a bit.

I ask what games you play and other stuff you do because if you are only going to be doing the standard MS Office student stuff, playing games like WoW or SC2, and streaming media from the campus network (if your on campus), then I put together a pc configuration that is $793 less $50 MIR and all free shipping. I am on my phone at work, but can link it to you later if you'd like. Without the 3 previously mentioned pieces it came to $620 less the $50 MIRs. It is based on the AMD 955be as ocnoob mentioned. I need to do a little research on the gpu (HIS 5770 for $100) but I am sure it can play anything out there now, just some probably on low settings. I just upgraded from a 4870 (very close to the 5770) and was playing Crysis with no problems whatsoever. Depending on your expectations we may even be able to cut some more fat off the top. But this pc should put all the mainstream manufactured prebuilts to shame. I am approaching your request as not looking for top of the line but at least better than a prebuilt and cheaper. I do not think you'd be sorry with a 955be or other. There are tons of reviews and comparisons out there, I will link the ones I look to later as well if you wish.

Another thing to mention if you are a college student, MS offers most colleges student discount software. I would start by checking with the campus book store. I got MS Office Enterprise and Windows for a little under $100 together.

byrdawg said:

There might be a few other options.

(1) What is your current PC (manufacturer and model - or if you can link the specs from the manufacturers site that would be more convenient).
I ask this because if you are willing, some components may be reusable for the time being possibly saving you a lot up front.
(2) What are you planning to do with this computer? A lot of high end games? Autocadd? Video editing? HTCP?
(3) Are you interested at all in OC'ing?
(4) What are your expectations? i.e. Top of the line, most demanding games with most graphic settings on high, online gamer only.
(5) WHats your budget

Maybe list a few games you currently play or are interested in.

Click to expand...

The comuter im using isnt mine so i cant take components from it. Its a shared computer. I enjoy some gameing but i cant play any of the games i want to now, computer cant handle anything except say, combat arms of minecraft. and even then it gets laggy. My expectations are for the games to be playable. I would like to play Cyrsis 2 on nice settings. Not the best, because i wont be able to afford that. This computer i want to build will be the first computer i own on my own. Its afirst time build. My budget is 700 at the most but 700 after tax and shipping included. If not im going to have to wait a while.

The 700 after taxes + shipping are without a gpu. ill be saving for one of those.