Help with Tailgate Ramps

This is kind of computer related - the ramps are used to wheel my LN2 tank off the truck.

So I bought these from Lowe's:
http://www.lowes.com/webapp/wcs/sto...se 7/8' 700 Lbs. Ramp Kit&CAWELAID=1219642169

I bolted them onto 2 8 foot long 2x8" boards, reinforced underneath with 2 7 foot 2x4" boards down the middle to limit bowing. The LN2 weighs 180LBs (100L) and the empty tank weighs about 200LBs, thats about 400 pounds total, plus 200 pounds (me). I'm hoping the 8' length is enough for me to be able to manage the slope with a full tank - the last thing I want is this huge tank of LN2 crashing onto the cement. This is what the ramps look like, one for each wheel of the dolley:



Which leads to my dilemma. The ramps linked above have 2 holes in the tops to drop retention pins into, which secure the ramps from sliding off the tailgate while I and my tank are half way down. On my first trial run with a 25% full tank, it was definitely a touch more exciting wheeling this thing down the ramp than I'd like it to be - the boards were bowing as they weren't reinforced by 2x4's and it is difficult to pull back on the dolly, ensure it stays on the ramps, and ensure my feet are on the ramps. The holes will help ensure the whole shebang isn't moving out from underneath me, and the holes are highlighted here:



I am not a handyman. How do I drill holes in my tailgate to drop the pins into?

I grabbed my drill, turned it near its maximum setting, pressed hard, and it appears that I perhaps don't have the appropriate bit with which to drill a hole in metal. I also have a dremel, with several unidentified drill bits.

Any tips to help me get this done?

you can go to a place Like Lowe, home Depot, Ace etc. and get Carbon Steel drill bits
thats should eat thru that metal with no problem

you could also ask ppl at those places i said just have to find the smart ppl (not teenagers)

oh and (love that)


EDIT: if you having trouble going up n down the ramps get Wider boards (they look like 2x6 you may like 2x8 better because more foot/wheel room

Matt...

The proper way to drill the tailgate metal is going to be to center punch it, then drill a pilot hole with a smaller bit, and finally move to the correct sized bit.

As for the type of bit... Cobalt steel or or Titanium.

Edit: The other thing that'll help... Is going ahead and cutting an angle on the ground end of the ramps so that they are flush with the ground when deployed.

Generally drilling random hole in a tail gate is not a good idea. There are plastic clips in there that the rods for the gate release run through.
What kind of truck and year is it? Also, what size holes do you need?

To stop the 2 X 8's from bowing as much, make it into a 'T' section.


*sorry, couldn't find a wood pic..... but you get the idea.

Use screws from the top. Nails will just pull out.

Soulcatcher668 said:

Generally drilling random hole in a tail gate is not a good idea. There are plastic clips in there that the rods for the gate release run through.
What kind of truck and year is it? Also, what size holes do you need?

To stop the 2 X 8's from bowing as much, make it into a 'T' section.

---------------- 2X8
|
| 2X4

Use screws from the top. Nails will just pull out.

Click to expand...

Dodge Dakota... Those plastic clips will be well below the location where he's drilling.

Matt, you need to realize that those 8ft ramps will be difficult to manage getting 380lbs down. You cant reach the ground from the bed of the truck and cant handle the wieght if you start on the ground. And walking down the ramps will be tricky in a best case scenario, I would recommend you to find a friend to help anytime you are unloading the dewar. This isnt to scare you, just would hate to see you tumble again and or smoke the dewer

dejo said:

Matt, you need to realize that those 8ft ramps will be difficult to manage getting 380lbs down. You cant reach the ground from the bed of the truck and cant handle the wieght if you start on the ground. And walking down the ramps will be tricky in a best case scenario, I would recommend you to find a friend to help anytime you are unloading the dewar. This isnt to scare you, just would hate to see you tumble again and or smoke the dewer

Click to expand...

I agree with this...

IF you must do it yourself... Go ahead and drill the holes in the tailgate like you're doing to pin the ramps to the truck.

I would also say though... That I'd go ahead and get some 3/4" Plywood maybe 36" wide (However wide it needs to be for your dolly with the dewar and you to walk on) and actually screw it to the tops of your two ramps to make one single ramp.

It'll be even heavier... But MUCH safer.

Convicted1 said:

I agree with this...

Click to expand...

Yup

I've helped a buddy with his freight business for dozens of runs and there's two things that make loading with ramps a breeze:
1) A dolly with a second set of wheels on the handle, so you can firmly lay it down on 4 wheels.
2) A pulley at the head end of the pickup box with a nylon rope to do the "lifting".

You stay on the ground the whole time, you aren't added to the load on the ramps, and it's easy to control gravity this way.

**Oh, and wear gloves while handling nylon rope, the DNA you leave at the scene holds the blood in!

the one advantage he has is that they will be placed close together and thus make it easier to handle but still not fun when the weight shifts and the race starts.
I tried to move a brand new small block Chevy from the back room (I know kinda hillbilly-but there was a room unused and I was young) and the weight of the engine was trying to kill one of the tires on the dolly. So I had to grab lower than the top of the dolly handle to keep the dolly from spinning or falling and keep balance between the 2 tires. when I got it out of the house and down the 1 step to the porch, I knew there was no way I was getting a 375lb engine down 4 more steps without help. When I went to set the dolly up straight- I literally threw me out into the yard about 10 feet and put a swell knot on my melon that I havent forgot to this very day. I literally seen stars and couldnt hear very well for over a month.

Needless to say it wasnt pretty, and would hate for something similar to happen to you. My little excursion killed a new oil pan, filter and brand new harmonic balancer- all crushed or beaten beyond use. Was prolly a $300 crash landing, and that dewar is far more valuable than that now that they are getting harder to come by.

Just be safe, whatever you do

Thanks for input guys.

@Convicted: I'm not handy, how do I center punch the tailgate? Is it similar to a donkey punch?

I also don't have a saw to angle off the ends. I could get a saw of some kind easy enough, but being a renter I don't ever have a need to saw things so I'll probably skip that part. Unless you think it will make a big difference - I know not being flush with the ground didn't cause any problems when I got to the end. The hand truck wheels are big enough that it isn't really noticeable.

@soulcatcher 668: The truck is a 99 dodge dakota. The hole size I don't know as I haven't measured them, but they are fairly small as pictured - maybe about half the width of a bic pen. These holes are maybe 2 inches from the top of the gate - I think clearance should be fine. All in though, this truck has no tangible value to me - it has gone for groceries and beer a couple times and done a little wood hauling, but it does that stuff for leisure and spends most its time leaking fluids onto my driveway. It only leaves the house a couple times a week. Its job is loading, hauling, and unloading LN2 which it does every week or two. Worst case, I can ruin the tailgate latches and it could still haul LN2 so I'm cool with that. On the other hand, if I can't secure these ramps safely the tailgate serves no purpose for me and I'd be fine risking breaking it, so long as the ramps can be secured.

As for the boards, good advice - they are fine now. The 2x4's stiffened them right up. They sort of are a T now, just a stubby sort of T. When I had the bowing problem was when I first tested the ramps with a partially full dewar, and they didn't have the 2x4's underneath then.

@dejo: I'm probably going to do 2 things for safety. I have a hand truck rated for 300lbs currently. I'm getting this one rated for 800/1000, which folds into an assisted position that makes it a bit more stable: http://www.lowes.com/pd_304427-6665...r=1606&Ntt=hand+truck&langId=-1&storeId=10151

And I'm going to try to convince someone to help me unload it when full (janus67 will be here this weekend) - I'm just not sure how we'll do it so we can both safely bear some of the weight.

I.M.O.G. said:

@Convicted: I'm not handy, how do I center punch the tailgate? Is it similar to a donkey punch?

Click to expand...

LMAO... Nope... Donkey Punch is a completely different concept.

Youtube to the rescue!


That is an automatic style center punch... But it gives you an idea of what you're after.

The other method is an "Awl" with a hammer to "dimple" the metal. What it does is allows the drill bit to bite in without moving around trying to find traction to dig into the metal.

EDIT: In a pinch you can use a Phillips Screwdriver or a Nail or something in place of the awl or Automatic Center Punch.

As for how to unload with 2 people...

One in the back of the truck controlling the hand truck... The other on the ground between the ramps holding the load back... Essentially the guy on the ground takes some of the weight off the guy in the truck while the guy in the truck does all the steering and only some of the weight control.

Missed a few recent posts

@Diggrr: That sounds like good advice as well, though I don't think the pulley setup is within my handicapabilities. I think the dolly I am after is similar to what you had in mind.

@dejo: Definitely going to be careful. I learned when I hurt my knee lifting it off that it is a heavy thing, even when half full. And you are right about the dewar being valuable. It only cost me about $125 or so, but finding another dewar this size that holds cold for weeks is a tall order... It wouldn't be an expensive loss, but it would be an expensive replacement that I am NOT eager to do.

@Convicted: Gotcha, thank you. I'm going to elect Janus67 to be the one on the bottom. For safety's sake of course.

I.M.O.G. said:

I'm going to elect Janus67 to be the one on the bottom.

Click to expand...

Quoted for obviously dubious reasons..... LMAO

Gotten lots of good advice here and I can't really add much, but how about an alternative idea? I know you've already laid out some cash, but how about a hoist? I don't know your garage layout, but most have decent sized rafters which could easily handle that much weight. Install a small manual hoist behind where the door sits in the up position, back the truck in far enough, attach hoist cable/chain, lift the tank, drive truck out, lower tank to floor. No worries about a ramp, less effort on your part, and much safer.

Thanks, but the truck can't get into the garage with the tank in the bed - too tall. Someone else also suggested an engine hoist, but I don't think they are tall enough. The top of the dewar while sitting in the truckbed is something like 8 ft in the air. I haven't measured but pulling the truck close I am about a few inches short of clearing the opening.

punch & drill

On the bottom is a center punch, top is a step drill. Tap the center punch with a small ball-pien hammer lightly, just enough to make an indentation. The step drill bit has several diameter cutting flutes so that you can drill a small hole, then larger, then larger still without changing out on your drill every time. Pretty cool.



You may want to try simply running some long bolts through the end of your boards on the ends that will attach to the bed of the truck; open and flip down the tailgate and the gap between the open tailgate and the bed should be a couple of inches wide, enough to secure the boards with the bolt-throughs.

I.M.O.G. said:

Thanks, but the truck can't get into the garage with the tank in the bed - too tall. Someone else also suggested an engine hoist, but I don't think they are tall enough. The top of the dewar while sitting in the truckbed is something like 8 ft in the air. I haven't measured but pulling the truck close I am about a few inches short of clearing the opening.

Click to expand...

Hmm, yeah that could be a problem! lol Well then, might I suggest something else? Make or buy a small C-bracket, line the inside with carpet or something soft to protect the paint, slide it over the bed rail up by the passenger compartment and have a pulley attached to the backside. Secure a rope to the dewar and run it through the pulley then back to you, so as you lower the dewar you also have a secondary means of slowing its descent. It's worked for me in the past when we had to move 700lb safes on two-wheel dollies.

That makes sense, sounds like an implementation of the pulley system that Diggrr suggested. I would skip the lining and screw the paint job - the truck already isn't any prettier than I am. Well, maybe a little prettier. Seriously though, that's still probably stretching my fabricating skills. I will keep it in mind.

I've got the convertible dolly now rated for 800lbs and its a lot sturdier than the dolly rated for 300lbs. It also has an assisted position where it lays at a 45 degree angle or so, but rolls on 4 wheels - that should relieve me from balancing weight vertically, and focusing only on the horizontal pull of gravity on the ramp.

I'm going to get the tank filled first thing tomorrow morning. Then making a trip to lowe's in the evening to pick up a bit for the drill/dremel (whichever is cheaper) so that I can insert the pins to secure the ramps in place.

I'll see what Don thinks when he gets here on Friday about moving the 100L off the truck. I may just leave it there - I have a 50L dewar and a 3ft transfer hose, so if I need to, I can transfer off and just fill thermoses from the 50L until the big dewar is empty, or at least lighter.