A world without ATI/AMD?

[Kuroimaho]

I think he was sarcastic.

 

[th3]

I have never heard such lunacy. As an electrical engineer, I know that IC's are incredibly difficult to make when you're reaching speeds in the GHz. Intel has always hired the best and the brightest to work on their IC's. They keep their processor development tight lipped with only the suits and the PhDs having access to the newer designs.

If it were in fact "the easiest business in the world, anyone can start making chips at home" then there would be much more competition. Do you have ANY idea what a silicon IC fab looks like? Or how much it costs? You should really research the issue more, rather than discussing hearsay.

You are not reading enough posts around here. The general opinion in the AMD camp is that Intel dont know what they are doing, apple would crush them, samsung would too, IBM would for sure, anyone who buys AMD will instantly and magically become the #1 chipmaker.

And as someone who actually read more than single posts pointed out, its not my own opinion. Just the thought of Apple buying AMD is so hilarious that it doesnt deserve a more serious reply than the one i gave.

 

[ian2000gsxr]

competition is important to the stability of the market. i hope groups of companies amd / intel and ati/nvidia thrive. it would mean lower prices and higher performance for us

 

[DomoRawks]

IBM would buy AMD?
Why?
Whats in it for IBM?

IBM has spent quite some time getting rid of its production end and concentrated on support services.
Although we might quite like IBM to buy AMD and throw $50billion at research and better production, its not going to happen.

AMD needs money, a lot of, a lot lot lot of it.
If it gets it, it enters into an unending price war with Intel which, although great for us, is pretty crappy for whoever bought AMD

 

[prime81]

I think AMD made a smart move buying ATi, and if AMD plays it right they can really benefit from it. AMD is behind intel right now, but that's always the case.... I remember when AMD smacked Intel upside the head and then stomped them for years. ATi on the other hand has developed new technology and multi GPU configurations on a single PCB... Nvidia just got a smack upside the head. ATi has a 55nm process, could AMD use some of that technology and incorporate it into their processors? Nvidia just released a 9800GX2 that at it's BEST is about 2% faster than an ATi card which costs $200 less.

So what do we have here:

ATi is really moving forward, once the driver issues are resolved Nvidia gets to take a back of the bus seat for a while. Not to mention ATi is releasing another X2 version which is already being named the nvidia killer.

AMD is behind in process technology, efficiency, and multi-threading. But they do still have the transport bus that Intel is fixing to move to, and it will be interesting to see how well the Intel transport bus does or if they run into issues... meanwhile AMD has already perfected the bus technology and can focus on other areas.

When it comes down to it, both companies are still in the game and seeing as where AMD came from and what they have done in the past... I smell a comeback, just don't know when.

 

[jstutman]

I dont see them going anywhere, but if they did maybe more direct competition would make Intel lower there prices.

 

[ratbuddy]

Nvidia just released a 9800GX2 that at it's BEST is about 2% faster than an ATi card which costs $200 less.

So what do we have here:

ATi is really moving forward, once the driver issues are resolved Nvidia gets to take a back of the bus seat for a while. Not to mention ATi is releasing another X2 version which is already being named the nvidia killer.

Say what??? ATI doesn't have any video card even close to being in the GX2's league. The 3870X2 (if that's what you were talking about) is way behind the GX2. Even quadfire can't beat a single GX2. The 3870X2 might keep up in 3dmark (meaningless) and in certain games with AA turned off, but at real resolutions with AA turned on, it's easily 30% slower.

I know, it's depressing being on the losing team, but making things up ain't gonna make the cards any faster..

 

[prime81]

Say what??? ATI doesn't have any video card even close to being in the GX2's league. The 3870X2 (if that's what you were talking about) is way behind the GX2. Even quadfire can't beat a single GX2. The 3870X2 might keep up in 3dmark (meaningless) and in certain games with AA turned off, but at real resolutions with AA turned on, it's easily 30% slower.

I know, it's depressing being on the losing team, but making things up ain't gonna make the cards any faster..

If you look at the reviews .... most of them anyway, they are using horrible 8.1catalyst drivers. Another thing your convieniently overlooking is nvidia has already released a similar GX2 card(7950 GX2) which means they've had ample time to ramp up their drivers. Keep in mind though the GX2 is not a single card, it is two cards stuck together with GX2 badging. ATI's card is a single card with two GPUs on one card, goodluck getting nvidia to do that. SLI also requires the same card for it to function properly. The 3870x2 was released to unseat the 8800 Ultra, and that it did...now ATi is fixing to release the 4870x2/4870/4850 series.


Technology wise nvidia is in the same position as AMD... they are behind. Just because nvidia made one last attempt to take the crown don't make them the winners. Right now ATi is the best, and has the best technology... once ATi's drivers mature, it's over.

 

[Moto7451]

If AMD goes under, there's always the possibility of Windows being compiled for multiple ISAs. While it's more difficult due to Window's executable format v.s. OS X's Executable format, there's no technical reason why MS couldn't do what Apple's done with supporting PPC and Intel chips. Granted, they'd probably need some sort of incentive from IBM and/or Freescale (unlikely to be just Freescale) but it's not like NT hasn't had a history of running on PPC hardware. This is probably the only way I see IBM's dream of the Cell becoming a major threat to Intel a reality (granted the Cell would end up having to be more like the PPC 970 for this to work well).

I think it would be rather amusing to see Windows boxes running PPC chips and Apple using Intel chips . Pretty soon after dogs would be walking their owners and Brittny Spears would have an E! Special on how she's such a great mother.

 

[th3]

once ATi's drivers mature, it's over.

This has been said for year after year, "when they get their drivers together", "soon". How come we hear this all the time but never see those drivers? I heard this so many times before, lets see proof for once, show me those wonderous drivers ATI fanboys was waiting for 3 years ago, where are they today? Or more recent, the 2900XT, wheres the miracle drivers for those? Remind me how long people been waiting for those?

 

[DomoRawks]

I think AMD made a smart move buying ATi, and if AMD plays it right they can really benefit from it.

All of AMD's serious problems right now stem from buying ATI.

AMD COULD have made a smart move buying ATI, they didnt, they dropped the ball and they are now paying for it, probably with their life.

AMD, at the height of the liquidity boom, when its stock price was higher than its ever been, when cheap money for mergers and aquisitions was being thrown around at anyone who asked for it, spent all of its cash reserves buying ATI.

AMD could have taken on a $5billion loan to buy ATI.
AMD could (and should) have issued new $5Billion of new shares to buy ATI.
AMD could have bought ATI with stocks, commonly refered to as a merger.

AMD did not, and now its in trouble.

You are right as to why AMD bought ATI, AMD can use its older Fabs to make ATI's products, and later on, AMD can release its fusion line.
This would have been great, and worked wonders, if AMD had money in the bank to pay for it.

AMD is behind in process technology, efficiency, and multi-threading. But they do still have the transport bus that Intel is fixing to move to, and it will be interesting to see how well the Intel transport bus does or if they run into issues... meanwhile AMD has already perfected the bus technology and can focus on other areas.

You are right again, but it comes down to money again.
Intel can afford to spend $5billion getting the on die memory controller to work, AMD cant afford to spend $5billion on, anything.

 

[ratbuddy]

If you look at the reviews .... most of them anyway, they are using horrible 8.1catalyst drivers. Another thing your convieniently overlooking is nvidia has already released a similar GX2 card(7950 GX2) which means they've had ample time to ramp up their drivers. Keep in mind though the GX2 is not a single card, it is two cards stuck together with GX2 badging. ATI's card is a single card with two GPUs on one card, goodluck getting nvidia to do that. SLI also requires the same card for it to function properly. The 3870x2 was released to unseat the 8800 Ultra, and that it did...now ATi is fixing to release the 4870x2/4870/4850 series.


Technology wise nvidia is in the same position as AMD... they are behind. Just because nvidia made one last attempt to take the crown don't make them the winners. Right now ATi is the best, and has the best technology... once ATi's drivers mature, it's over.

Uhm.. Wow. True fanboyism here, not sure if it's even worth responding. You do realize at many resolutions and with AA on, 3870X2 can't even beat a GTX or GTS-512, let alone an Ultra..

The GX2 goes in a single slot, it's a single card. It has dual PCBs, you are just playing with semantics there.

"Fixing to release the 4 series" ? Well, nvidia has new products coming too. Big whoop.

I know, you bought a 3870X2, it probably seemed like a good idea at the time, and it's not a horrible card if you play at lower resolutions with no AA/AF, but please don't defend the thing by flat out lying. Noone is judging you based on what video card you bought..

 

[prime81]

Uhm.. Wow. True fanboyism here, not sure if it's even worth responding. You do realize at many resolutions and with AA on, 3870X2 can't even beat a GTX or GTS-512, let alone an Ultra..

The GX2 goes in a single slot, it's a single card. It has dual PCBs, you are just playing with semantics there.

"Fixing to release the 4 series" ? Well, nvidia has new products coming too. Big whoop.

I know, you bought a 3870X2, it probably seemed like a good idea at the time, and it's not a horrible card if you play at lower resolutions with no AA/AF, but please don't defend the thing by flat out lying. Noone is judging you based on what video card you bought..

Your obviously an nvidia fan boy...

I play every game I own including Crysis on the highest res my monitor supports which is 1280/1024. I'm an avid CoD4 player and every setting is maxed out and I can still cap it at 250fps and it never dips below 200. I've got guys on my team that have the Ultra's and 512's and they aren't even close. In terms of real world performance and image quality ATi is the best right now. The 3870x2 was released to unseat the 8800 line... and it did, re-read ur reviews. The 9800GX2 is a good card but it's still two cards made to look like one and still costs $200 more than the 3870x2. The 4 series will be here to unseat the 9800GX2, the GTX is a failure... again read the reviews.

 

[ratbuddy]

Your obviously an nvidia fan boy...

I play every game I own including Crysis on the highest res my monitor supports which is 1280/1024. I'm an avid CoD4 player and every setting is maxed out and I can still cap it at 250fps and it never dips below 200. I've got guys on my team that have the Ultra's and 512's and they aren't even close. In terms of real world performance and image quality ATi is the best right now. The 3870x2 was released to unseat the 8800 line... and it did, re-read ur reviews. The 9800GX2 is a good card but it's still two cards made to look like one and still costs $200 more than the 3870x2. The 4 series will be here to unseat the 9800GX2, the GTX is a failure... again read the reviews.

Uhm, 1280x1024? My 8800GT plays Crysis on high at that resolution. Look here http://www.fudzilla.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=6392&Itemid=40 and note the little orange bar. That's the HD3870X2. It falls apart at upper resolutions with AA enabled. What are you even doing with a $400 video card on a 1280x1024 monitor??

ATI does not have the best 'real world performance' and image quality. Performance can be proven that Nvidia is superior, and all I've ever heard about image quality is ATI fans saying their cards are better. Never seen a single screenshot showing this to be true.

The GTX is not a failure. It's a $300 card with performance similar to one that cost over $500 just a few months ago.

As far as the 4 series coming along to unseat the GX2, big deal. Nvidia has new cards in the works too.

I do hope ATI can put out a competitive card before it's too late. A world with only 1 major player would mean slower products and higher prices for all of us.

edit: here's some COD4 numbers. 9600GT in SLI and 9800GX2 both EASILY beat the 3870X2 + 3870 trifire combo. http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=3266&p=4 Even a single 8800GT wins over the 3870X2 at anything below 2560x1600.

edit: here's more food for thought: http://techreport.com/articles.x/14355/5

 

[prime81]

Uhm, 1280x1024? My 8800GT plays Crysis on high at that resolution. Look here http://www.fudzilla.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=6392&Itemid=40 and note the little orange bar. That's the HD3870X2. It falls apart at upper resolutions with AA enabled. What are you even doing with a $400 video card on a 1280x1024 monitor??

ATI does not have the best 'real world performance' and image quality. Performance can be proven that Nvidia is superior, and all I've ever heard about image quality is ATI fans saying their cards are better. Never seen a single screenshot showing this to be true.

The GTX is not a failure. It's a $300 card with performance similar to one that cost over $500 just a few months ago.

As far as the 4 series coming along to unseat the GX2, big deal. Nvidia has new cards in the works too.

I do hope ATI can put out a competitive card before it's too late. A world with only 1 major player would mean slower products and higher prices for all of us.

edit: here's some COD4 numbers. 9600GT in SLI and 9800GX2 both EASILY beat the 3870X2 + 3870 trifire combo. http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=3266&p=4 Even a single 8800GT wins over the 3870X2 at anything below 2560x1600.

edit: here's more food for thought: http://techreport.com/articles.x/14355/5

Ok EVGA 680i mobo of course the nvidia parts are gonna fly on this board.... and the 3dmark06 score of 13469 is way off... mine runs at a minimum of 17,905 and that's @ 3ghz on my E3110.

Fudzilla is nobody in the review world.... http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=3209

Your also forgetting the CrossfireX technology, ASUS has already developed a tri-GPU one PCB card. SLI can't match the scalability of CFX nor can they match the technology... there is a reason nvidia's answer is a two PCB single slot option that costs $200 more. Is that GX2 worth $200 more? when the 4870x2 will outperform it for about the same price as the 3870x2. I'm seeing dejavu here, AMD cuts prices and has best performance per buck, remind you of when AMD was on top with Intel?

 

[ratbuddy]

I see, shift the focus to the future. Who knows what ATI is bringing to the table. For now, 3870X2=lose. Yeah, the 4k series might be competitive, yeah, 3850X3 might work, but for right now, for what's available, you just haven't got a leg to stand on. You said re-read the reviews, so I did. They show Nvidia clearly leading right now.

The only reason I jumped in here is you said your card performs within 2% of a GX2 for $200 less. That's a fabrication, plain and simple.