AM3 w/Nvidia Chipset: ASUS, DFI, GB, or MSI?

[Speeddymon]

Greets all,

I'm looking to do an upgrade very very soon. I currently have a PII 940 Black on a Crosshair II Formula (AM2+), went to do a BIOS upgrade and now it won't detect my memory, so I am having to RMA it. I'm going to give the refurb board to my wife, but I've read many bad things about Asus lately while researching the problem I was having.

Since I am giving her the refurb board, I am going to just gut my system and upgrade.

I'm an Nvidia GPU owner, and I only play WoW so I don't need best of the best hardware, nor SLI. I know I can use Nvidia cards without SLI in XFire motherboards, but in case I do decide later on to get a second card, I want to not have to use hacks to make them work.

I've decided on a 1090T CPU, but I need a recommendation for a good motherboard for overclocking with an Nvidia chipset. Most times I don't overclock, however I like to have the options there for testing purposes.

I've used Gigabyte and MSI back in the day and I love Gigabyte's boards, but neither really had overclocking options a few years ago which is why I went with Asus for the last upgrade. I'm still open to them both if that has changed.

I know the DFI Lanparty boards were, at one point, considered to be the best boards for o/c, however I don't see much talk of DFI at all anymore.

After this experience with Asus, and also reading the things I have read, I'm not sure if I want to stick with them.

Lastly, I wanted to note that customer service is a huge factor in this question, even the best quality products sometimes need calls to support for RMA's and whatnot, and Asus's CS (online at least) sucked when I talked to them earlier today, though the phone support guy was much better. At any rate, here is the summary:

Looking for a motherboard with good tweaking options, DDR3-2133 support, Nvidia chipset, AM3, and good CS.

 

[xoke]

I don't think it's possible to run SLI Nvidia cards on any new AMD chipset motherboard without hacking drivers. Nvidia will not license AMD to have SLI, nor will AMD allow X-Fire to Nvidia.

So, my advice would be to go with an AMD chipset. I could be wrong, but it seems like since AMD/ATi merger if you want the possibility of running two cards (without hacking drivers) on an AMD platform you have to go ATi, not Nvidia.

 

[Speeddymon]

Are you certain? Things could have changed since my last upgrade, but my current board (Crosshair II Formula) is an AMD board with an NVidia chipset, which I think was released after the merger, though I could be wrong on that as well..

I hate ATI, but love AMD. Nothing but bad experiences with ATI video, nothing but good with Nvidia video and AMD CPU. That is retarded that they would just completely shun all that extra market sector they could have.

Guess I'm never going to go SLI then, because I'll never buy Intel. Too expensive for my budget, and imo too hot. /sigh

 

[xoke]

Are you certain? Things could have changed since my last upgrade, but my current board (Crosshair II Formula) is an AMD board with an NVidia chipset, which I think was released after the merger, though I could be wrong on that as well..

I hate ATI, but love AMD. Nothing but bad experiences with ATI video, nothing but good with Nvidia video and AMD CPU. That is retarded that they would just completely shun all that extra market sector they could have.

Guess I'm never going to go SLI then, because I'll never buy Intel. Too expensive for my budget, and imo too hot. /sigh

EDIT: Your right, your mobo does allow SLI, news to me! I looked around though...that market is pretty thin, not a ton of options.

Looks like you'll have to go with one of these. 780a or 980a Chipsets...all MSI and ASUS.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...ption=&Ntk=&CFG=&SpeTabStoreType=&srchInDesc=

 

[QuietIce]

Are you certain? Things could have changed since my last upgrade, but my current board (Crosshair II Formula) is an AMD board with an NVidia chipset, which I think was released after the merger, though I could be wrong on that as well..

I hate ATI, but love AMD. Nothing but bad experiences with ATI video, nothing but good with Nvidia video and AMD CPU. That is retarded that they would just completely shun all that extra market sector they could have.

Guess I'm never going to go SLI then, because I'll never buy Intel. Too expensive for my budget, and imo too hot. /sigh

LOL! Well, I can't argue with your Intel attitude - it pretty much mirrors mine!

Yes, you can run SLI on an AMD system with an nVidia chipset and you can run a single nVidia card on nVidia and AMD chipsets. I don't know how those stupid, stupid rumors got started and I wish there were some way to kill them but they seem to persist from ignorance, I suppose.


For board recommendations I'm not sure what to tell you. There are nVidia chipsets out there that overclock OK but none are great. I would avoid DFI like the plague but Gigabyte has been doing a good job - even with nVidia chipsets - so offhand I'd say that's the way to go. IIRC, the latest nVidia chipset is the 980-something.



PS
I don't think you'll find RAM that fast even with an AMD chipset (though I may be wrong there - hard to keep up with new stuff). The thing is, as I've pointed out (and tried to demonstate with various Everest scored from around the Net) anything over 1600 doesn't get you any performance gain and even 1333CL7 is only a hair behind 1600CL8 - and that's all with great OC's, not just at stock. Basically, I wouldn't let the RAM spec limit your choice of board ...

 

[Speeddymon]

See, I would go with Intel, if their CPU's could run cooler.

I would go with ATI, if I hadn't had 4 separate graphics cards blow caps (different manufacturers), over the last 10 years.

So for me, the choice (until now) for AMD+Nvidia was easy.

I think a lot of people feel the same way about the marketing strategies, but because of the limited selection, they just resign to something else and don't say much.

Even if they licensed the SLI technology out, they could still make a killing on their own chipsets, by just making them better than everyone else. I would totally buy an Nvidia board over an ATI or Intel board which had SLI, if they existed, and I'm sure many ATI fans would say they would buy ATI boards over an Nvidia or Intel board with Crossfire.

Question: Back in the day, there was a bridger for SLI that you would attach between 2 cards. Has anyone done research into the board specs and physical layout to see if the cards physically have the place to hook up a bridger, even if something has to be soldered? It'd be interesting to find out that Nvidia never removed the code to support the bridger from their chips and then anyone could run SLI without hacked drivers, on any board they want to.

Of course Nvidia would then remove it from future chips, to protect that market share... but it would be fun while it lasted. :-D

 

[xoke]

Sorry for spreading the evil rumors , I think it came around from the days when the 680i Nvidia chipsets and motherboards came out for Intel....they didn't release an AMD counterpart FOREVER. This was also about merger time, I guess a few of us just gave up on the idea of AMD+SLI.

Since then I gave up on Nvidia Chipsets...a 650i, 2 680i, and a 780i later...and nearly every entry level Intel chipsets would run circles around them....I said goodbye to Nvidia chipsets.

 

[Speeddymon]

Yes, you can run SLI on an AMD system with an nVidia chipset and you can run a single nVidia card on nVidia and AMD chipsets.

My current board, Crosshair II Formula, is like that. I'm not sure why you thought I thought any different, but I did know that.

For board recommendations I'm not sure what to tell you. There are nVidia chipsets out there that overclock OK but none are great. I would avoid DFI like the plague but Gigabyte has been doing a good job - even with nVidia chipsets - so offhand I'd say that's the way to go. IIRC, the latest nVidia chipset is the 980-something.

980a. Just mainly trying to figure out manufacturers' tweaking abilities now. Asus has good options for tweaking but my personal experience with the online support was horrible enough that I never want to have to deal with them again. Gigabyte's and MSI's were always good to me but neither had decent tweak-ability in the past. I never had personal experience with DFI, so I wasn't sure. What has become so bad about DFI?

PS
I don't think you'll find RAM that fast even with an AMD chipset (though I may be wrong there - hard to keep up with new stuff). The thing is, as I've pointed out (and tried to demonstate with various Everest scored from around the Net) anything over 1600 doesn't get you any performance gain and even 1333CL7 is only a hair behind 1600CL8 - and that's all with great OC's, not just at stock. Basically, I wouldn't let the RAM spec limit your choice of board ...

http://www.asus.com/product.aspx?P_ID=1g8o5Sh3csqM5M8u&templete=2

This looks like it takes up to DDR3-2000. I digress, you are most likely right, though I like the sound of the higher numbers, as long as it doesn't cost an arm and a leg more.

Sorry for spreading the evil rumors , I think it came around from the days when the 680i Nvidia chipsets and motherboards came out for Intel....they didn't release an AMD counterpart FOREVER. This was also about merger time, I guess a few of us just gave up on the idea of AMD+SLI.

Since then I gave up on Nvidia Chipsets...a 650i, 2 680i, and a 780i later...and nearly every entry level Intel chipsets would run circles around them....I said goodbye to Nvidia chipsets.

So, running an Intel chipset, you can't get SLI or Crossfire though, right? I mean, I've never run dual cards before so, I'm seriously tempted to just ditch the Nvidia chipset anyways since I really don't tax the current gen graphics cards anyways by playing WoW, but I do need a better motherboard/proc, especially now that I'm having these problems with Asus's support.

 

[QuietIce]

See, I would go with Intel, if their CPU's could run cooler.

I would go with ATI, if I hadn't had 4 separate graphics cards blow caps (different manufacturers), over the last 10 years.

So for me, the choice (until now) for AMD+Nvidia was easy.

I think a lot of people feel the same way about the marketing strategies, but because of the limited selection, they just resign to something else and don't say much.

Even if they licensed the SLI technology out, they could still make a killing on their own chipsets, by just making them better than everyone else. I would totally buy an Nvidia board over an ATI or Intel board which had SLI, if they existed, and I'm sure many ATI fans would say they would buy ATI boards over an Nvidia or Intel board with Crossfire.

Question: Back in the day, there was a bridger for SLI that you would attach between 2 cards. Has anyone done research into the board specs and physical layout to see if the cards physically have the place to hook up a bridger, even if something has to be soldered? It'd be interesting to find out that Nvidia never removed the code to support the bridger from their chips and then anyone could run SLI without hacked drivers, on any board they want to.

Of course Nvidia would then remove it from future chips, to protect that market share... but it would be fun while it lasted. :-D

I have no opinion one way or the other about the chipsets other than how they overclock and, since I'm not much on high-end graphics, I don't care about SLI or Crossfire. My s939 and AM2 systems have nVidia chipsets, my AM2+ systems are all AMD because nVidia dropped the OC ball when AM2+ came out.

Just as an FYI - you can even run multiple nVidia cards on an AMD chipset, you just can't hook them up as SLI. We've got a couple of SETI Members running with that kiind of set-up. It works fine for CUDA ...

 

[Speeddymon]

Is there any benefit to running dual Nvidia cards without SLI? Doesn't just the GPU/GRAM of the one card you are running the game on get used?

I did some more searching, it looks like Gigabyte doesn't have any 980a boards. MSI's NF980-G65 looks good, if I decide to stick with Nvidia for the chipset. Time to search for non-nvidia chipsets. I'm nervous but I think I will be happier without nForce... We will see.

What is the latest AMD chipset right now? What about Intel?

Edit: Oh, Intel chipsets only run Intel chips... Duh.. Nevermind, it's AMD or Nvidia then.

890FX or 890GX?

 

[xoke]

So, running an Intel chipset, you can't get SLI or Crossfire though, right? I mean, I've never run dual cards before so, I'm seriously tempted to just ditch the Nvidia chipset anyways since I really don't tax the current gen graphics cards anyways by playing WoW, but I do need a better motherboard/proc, especially now that I'm having these problems with Asus's support.

Lol, it is a mess...to the best of my knowledge it breaks down like this.

Intel Chipset can run X-Fire, cannot run SLI

AMD Chipset can run X-Fire, cannot run SLI

Nvidia Chipset can run SLI, cannot Run X-Fire

Ati managed to get in bed with Intel in regards to X-fire, probably mostly to squeeze the market on Nvidia. It's funny cause Ati's mommy (AMD) is Intel's only/biggest competitor. Intel reportedly wanted SLI licensing for their chipsets also, but Nvidia declined (legal stuff on both sides)...probably to keep their chipset division alive and avoid getting squeezed out by an AMD/Intel chipset "co-monopoly.". Intel chipsets overclock better than Nvidia ones and have better RAID, and used to have way better memory controllers, but they have no SLI. It's a mess. Lol!

Having owned a 650i, 2 680i, and a 780i...I can tell you those chipsets had nothing on Intel...except SLI, which is why I stuck with them. Finally when I had enough of their poor performance I went with an Intel chipset...which meant if I wanted a dual card setup I had to go X-Fire, so I did. First time I had run ATi in many moons. I'm happy I did though, really pleased with my ATi cards. I'm not sure if Nvidia chipsets have got any better or not, last one I ran was 780i.

As to dual card setups, I love them...but I'b be lying if I didn't say you couldn't get by without them. I just like them, it's that simple. Honestly, half the time I have my cards OUT of X-Fire with media center running on one screen off one card, and a game running on another screen off the other card, lol.

I pay twice as much for cards cause I buy them in pairs, but I buy cards half as often...usually skipping an entire generation. I probably wont ditch my 4890s until an ATi 6XXX something comes out...and so on.

As to ASUS, they make legit motherboards, but I won't buy them anymore. Their customer service is just too frustrating. I had a p4p800se that had all kinds of issues, RMA was like pulling teeth. A few years later I went back to them and picked up a Striker...and it dropped a PCI-e slot, took a full month and a half to get a replacement. No mas.

 

[xoke]

Is there any benefit to running dual Nvidia cards without SLI? Doesn't just the GPU/GRAM of the one card you are running the game on get used?

I did some more searching, it looks like Gigabyte doesn't have any 980a boards. MSI's NF980-G65 looks good, if I decide to stick with Nvidia for the chipset. Time to search for non-nvidia chipsets. I'm nervous but I think I will be happier without nForce... We will see.

What is the latest AMD chipset right now? What about Intel?

Edit: Oh, Intel chipsets only run Intel chips... Duh.. Nevermind, it's AMD or Nvidia then.

890FX or 890GX?

890FX= two full 16x PCi-e slots (good fore X-fire with high end cards) no built in graphics

890GX= one full 16x PCI-e sLot (good for one high end card) and has built in graphics (ATI Radeon HD ~4290 usually)

Oh, and on AMD chipsets the built in graphics can be X-Fired (Hybrid something) with a discrete card. Other than that they are about the same, DDr3, AMD, 6gbs SATA...etc.


Dual cards (not in SLI or X-Fire) can be handy for running graphics intensive stuff on two separate monitors, or some kinds of distributed computer stuff, like folding at home or seti, but mostly, your right, one card will do what you want.

 

[Speeddymon]

So for an Nvidia card, an 890GX is all I need, no reason to pay more for the second x16 slot that I'll never use. Sound about right?

 

[xoke]

So for an Nvidia card, an 890GX is all I need, no reason to pay more for the second x16 slot that I'll never use. Sound about right?

Yup. I should mention though, from what I hear the ATi boards without built in graphics clock a bit better then those that have them, regardless of whether or not you are using said built in graphics...

I haven't used any of them except the BIOSTAR in my sig...it's one of the X-Fire friendly ones, but it's cheap ($139) and fast.

 

[Speeddymon]

I've decided on this:

http://gigabyte.com/products/product-page.aspx?pid=3516#sp

I would have gone with http://www.msi.com/index.php?func=prodmbspec&maincat_no=1&cat2_no=&cat3_no=&prod_no=2012

But it is a MicroATX, and I have a full tower case.... LOL it would look really funny in there.

Thanks for the help people.

 

[xoke]

I've decided on this:

http://gigabyte.com/products/product-page.aspx?pid=3516#sp

I would have gone with http://www.msi.com/index.php?func=prodmbspec&maincat_no=1&cat2_no=&cat3_no=&prod_no=2012

But it is a MicroATX, and I have a full tower case.... LOL it would look really funny in there.

Thanks for the help people.

That Gigabyte looks nice, the Ultra Durables are legit. I like them.

 

[QuietIce]

My current board, Crosshair II Formula, is like that. I'm not sure why you thought I thought any different, but I did know that.

Sorry but I wanted to emphasis the correct answer instead of the garbage posted earlier. It's not just you, someone else may come along and be lead astray by the same bad rumors - I wanted to set the record straight.

So for an Nvidia card, an 890GX is all I need, no reason to pay more for the second x16 slot that I'll never use. Sound about right?

Well, yes and no. The power systems on those boards tend to be a bit beefier than others as well as having better OC'ing options in BIOS. But the board you chose isn't bad. In that price range I might be tempted to drop back to the 790X chipset, though. Gigabyte has one with SATA III and USB3.0 that they released just before the jump to 890.

Intel chipsets ... used to have way better memory controllers, ...

In 2004, maybe.