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AMD 390X reference card will ship with AIO cooler
- Thread starter Janus67
- Start date
- Joined
- Apr 12, 2014
Ivy, where are you getting your information ?
As stated, SLI is scaling crazy these days. I will give you that you do get diminishing returns when adding a third and fourth cards
but 2x is crazy good. and 3 and four are not part of this conversation.
Agree with ATM, SLI 980's will destroy the 390x unless AMD has opened a bottle of magical pixy dust no one knows about.
This will not be the case though, they are beating their heads against the wall to try to keep pace by releasing a GPU that will use a very expensive cooling solution making it that much harder to compete.
trust me, this is not by choice, it is by necessity.
if they do not find some efficiency by next gen, it could be daunting trying to stay in the game
As stated, SLI is scaling crazy these days. I will give you that you do get diminishing returns when adding a third and fourth cards
but 2x is crazy good. and 3 and four are not part of this conversation.
Agree with ATM, SLI 980's will destroy the 390x unless AMD has opened a bottle of magical pixy dust no one knows about.
This will not be the case though, they are beating their heads against the wall to try to keep pace by releasing a GPU that will use a very expensive cooling solution making it that much harder to compete.
trust me, this is not by choice, it is by necessity.
if they do not find some efficiency by next gen, it could be daunting trying to stay in the game
Scaling varies dramatically by title/settings/etc. Typically it is in the 70-80% area with one offs on both sides of that range. I also believe that 2 980s will beat a single 390x while using slightly more power. I think we are going down the language/meaning barrier again... 
- Joined
- Apr 12, 2014
language/meaning barrier again ?????
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- Apr 12, 2014
Oh OK
Basically the AMD 390X is nVidia's GTX480 .......
Basically the AMD 390X is nVidia's GTX480 .......
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- Jun 28, 2012
Basically the AMD 390X is nVidia's GTX480 .......
Sounds about right to me.
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Wonder if 980 pricing will drop a little when AMD launches these..
Like every release... that depends on the competition's performance...
OP
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- May 29, 2005
- Thread Starter
- #31
Bingo, if the 390X releases for the same price as a 980 with less performance the 980 will stay the same.
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- Jan 12, 2012
I thought that these new AMD gpus were supposed to be more efficient, then the 290's?
Yes, and everybody thought that Bulldozer would be a killer too. Talk is cheap.
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- Jan 12, 2012
It is Scotty, "Killer of budget motherboards!"
I think even if it was hot etc but released half year ago as it supposed to looking at the first leaks then all would be fine. If they release it now at recently leaked specs and performance then it will be kinda fail. Looking at the leaked results we can expect 10-15% higher performance than the GTX980 but 50-100% higher wattage. If it's true then no way that Nvidia will reduce price for GTX980. They will live for 2-4 months as 2nd in performance but much higher efficiency and release new Titan and 980Ti.
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- Jun 7, 2011
Almost becoming headache of all the stuff: Those are no leaked results, there is no evidence that they barely speak the truth, its all a big assumption based on way to many minor factors which is actually based on another assumption. Someone can make speculations based on maybe a single accurate information and with some luck the construct is barely fitting. In term of 390X the "special cooler" may be true, so the construct is a "hot and beefy GPU" which is actually the probably only true stuff released so far and not more than that. But how good it will actually perform and whatever is not more than speculations and it should be handled according to this fact.
One thing is certain, i think AMD would not be stupid enough releasing a GPU that is in need of 2 times more Watt with only a minor performance gain. So far all they did is pushing a old GCN core by expanding the ressources to extreme levels, some may call it "tock" (new architecture) but there is neither a tick (shrink) nor a tock, its simply a expansion of a old architecture for even more performance and nothing more than that. The efficiency actually even was decreasing, for example 290X vs. 7870, but Nvidia wasnt better than that with the release of the more beefy "Kepler" versions. The Maxwell is a completely new architecture, i have to tell the obvious because people apparently arnt noticing it and they actually made a big step in efficiency, thats a fact.
Now what will happen to AMD and the Radeon? Surely they had over 3 years for the development of some better architecture, so i dont expect it to be unable to compete. In term they need almost twice the power for minor performance gain, the new architecture is unable to compete, thats a fact. Not necessarily when it comes to huge tower PCs, they can handle the heat, but SFF and Notebooks will be out of question... and honestly... AMD isnt going to be that stupid, they can lose a huge market. In term they can pull out 50% more performance at 300W it is surely competitive, at least on the desktop market but not SFF or Notebook market still. Stuff worse than that isnt gonna happen, and most likely not the case.
Anyway, lately the community seems overly focused on efficiency. In the past it was almost non existent, i remember when someone was boasting with a SLI 480 and it was a insane hair burner, although the user didnt care at all as long as performance was fine. Nowadays it seems even the enthusiast is becoming sensitive when it comes to efficiency... interesting changes and well... why not. But it would make huge tower PC pretty much obsolete because cool cards such as 970/980 can even be fitted inside SFF with zero issues (SLI too). Surely interesting changes even in the enthusiast markets and seems like Nvidia can afford to release cutted down GPUs because people now actually care the efficiency maybe even more than sheer performance.
I think, currently when it comes to "big PC" market, Nvidia was pretty much slaping those enthusiasts in the face because its below the thermal capabilitys of such a PC. The current spec is a great SFF GPU with the perfect TDP for SFF use. It can be overclocked yes, but only a small OC would make sense in term of efficiency. In term a high OC is involved (past the 1500 line) the current Maxwell chips will suffer crazy efficiency values up to the point where it would only be marginally better than the old GCN or Kepler. So its somewhat hilarious that the people value efficiency nowadays but may OC some Maxwell to insane levels because they can and the TDP is offering no challenges, a situation i dont enjoy at all. Once again, a Maxwell is only very efficient close to stock clock... not at 1500+ or whatever.
Regarding AMDs 300 series, i think AMD is doing a different approach, a GPU that is actually scaling better with OC compared to Maxwell in term of efficiency, so the basic value can look worse but the "enhanced value" might be smoother, so a good cooler can make sense and a big desktop enthusiast PC is becoming useful once again. There can be many different approaches and as long as i cant judge the 300 series i would not make to much assumptions... i could end up spreading way to many lies.
Yes it is more stressful, im not gonna argue because it would be same such as telling a child why a lollipop is tasting sweet.
One thing is certain, i think AMD would not be stupid enough releasing a GPU that is in need of 2 times more Watt with only a minor performance gain. So far all they did is pushing a old GCN core by expanding the ressources to extreme levels, some may call it "tock" (new architecture) but there is neither a tick (shrink) nor a tock, its simply a expansion of a old architecture for even more performance and nothing more than that. The efficiency actually even was decreasing, for example 290X vs. 7870, but Nvidia wasnt better than that with the release of the more beefy "Kepler" versions. The Maxwell is a completely new architecture, i have to tell the obvious because people apparently arnt noticing it and they actually made a big step in efficiency, thats a fact.
Now what will happen to AMD and the Radeon? Surely they had over 3 years for the development of some better architecture, so i dont expect it to be unable to compete. In term they need almost twice the power for minor performance gain, the new architecture is unable to compete, thats a fact. Not necessarily when it comes to huge tower PCs, they can handle the heat, but SFF and Notebooks will be out of question... and honestly... AMD isnt going to be that stupid, they can lose a huge market. In term they can pull out 50% more performance at 300W it is surely competitive, at least on the desktop market but not SFF or Notebook market still. Stuff worse than that isnt gonna happen, and most likely not the case.
Anyway, lately the community seems overly focused on efficiency. In the past it was almost non existent, i remember when someone was boasting with a SLI 480 and it was a insane hair burner, although the user didnt care at all as long as performance was fine. Nowadays it seems even the enthusiast is becoming sensitive when it comes to efficiency... interesting changes and well... why not. But it would make huge tower PC pretty much obsolete because cool cards such as 970/980 can even be fitted inside SFF with zero issues (SLI too). Surely interesting changes even in the enthusiast markets and seems like Nvidia can afford to release cutted down GPUs because people now actually care the efficiency maybe even more than sheer performance.
I think, currently when it comes to "big PC" market, Nvidia was pretty much slaping those enthusiasts in the face because its below the thermal capabilitys of such a PC. The current spec is a great SFF GPU with the perfect TDP for SFF use. It can be overclocked yes, but only a small OC would make sense in term of efficiency. In term a high OC is involved (past the 1500 line) the current Maxwell chips will suffer crazy efficiency values up to the point where it would only be marginally better than the old GCN or Kepler. So its somewhat hilarious that the people value efficiency nowadays but may OC some Maxwell to insane levels because they can and the TDP is offering no challenges, a situation i dont enjoy at all. Once again, a Maxwell is only very efficient close to stock clock... not at 1500+ or whatever.
Regarding AMDs 300 series, i think AMD is doing a different approach, a GPU that is actually scaling better with OC compared to Maxwell in term of efficiency, so the basic value can look worse but the "enhanced value" might be smoother, so a good cooler can make sense and a big desktop enthusiast PC is becoming useful once again. There can be many different approaches and as long as i cant judge the 300 series i would not make to much assumptions... i could end up spreading way to many lies.
You said you would use double Watt in order to be on par (or maybe better) with a possible new Radeon, but it is not double efficiency nor double performance, so you are trading your so praised "efficiency" in order to beat a Radeon. Ok, why not, as long as performance is toward your expectations guess everything is OK. On top of that you may even have to pay almost double the price and in the end Nvidia will be releasing a 980TI (i guess this is only a question of time) and now that you was handing them over probably 1200 USD, you may not even become enthusiast grade for more than a few minor months. Such decisions is up to you but i would refrain from making it tasty to any users as the "ultimate solution", such a claim can be dangerous.
Yes it is more stressful, im not gonna argue because it would be same such as telling a child why a lollipop is tasting sweet.
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- Joined
- Apr 12, 2014
I am not sure I agree anyone cares about efficiency that much.
What it is all about is what you are spending your watt's on.
No matter what until retail hits the street's we will have nothing definitive.
The speculation is the performance for the watt's spent is not going to be there.
This card will be an epic fail if it can only deliver 10% over a GT980.
The higher that percent actually ends up will be tell tail to if this card will succeed or not.
Just like with the GTX480, was it worth the heat and power consumption for the performance or wasn't it ?
The alternative the more efficient, cooler running 6970 at about a 15% deficit in performance.
They sold a lot of 6970's despite the gap in performance.
Point being this is not a new argument, simply the same one with the rolls reversed.
I am sure many will jump on the 390x if it is 10% faster or better.
Many will opt to use the GTX980 though
Back then if you remember nVidia was scrambling for a solution and the GTX580 was released shortly after the GTX480 in an effort to regain market share.
What it is all about is what you are spending your watt's on.
No matter what until retail hits the street's we will have nothing definitive.
The speculation is the performance for the watt's spent is not going to be there.
This card will be an epic fail if it can only deliver 10% over a GT980.
The higher that percent actually ends up will be tell tail to if this card will succeed or not.
Just like with the GTX480, was it worth the heat and power consumption for the performance or wasn't it ?
The alternative the more efficient, cooler running 6970 at about a 15% deficit in performance.
They sold a lot of 6970's despite the gap in performance.
Point being this is not a new argument, simply the same one with the rolls reversed.
I am sure many will jump on the 390x if it is 10% faster or better.
Many will opt to use the GTX980 though
Back then if you remember nVidia was scrambling for a solution and the GTX580 was released shortly after the GTX480 in an effort to regain market share.
I think that speaking about efficiency we mean that we can put fastest available card into our regular PC case and it won't overheat or cause us to replace all cooling+case+PSU only to play couple of games. Also high wattage = harder to keep PC quiet. Not all wish to have large and expensive water cooling.
I agree that overclockers ( especially those who bench on cold ) don't care about efficiency as long as results are good.
I care about max wattage of new AMD as I'm thinking to maybe get one for benching but I will think twice if it has 300W+ as it will overload my ss and results on dice also won't be exceptional.
@Ivy, I'm not sure if you have any idea about Maxwell scalling with voltage. You can set 1500MHz+ without raising voltage on most GTX970 and many GTX980 what barely raises wattage. GTX750/Ti are scalling in similar way.
AMD are pathetic if you look at efficiency scalling while overclocking. Look at every series in last 5 years. 7970 needed huge bump in voltage to make 200MHz more. 290/290X the same so without really big changes in architecture ( right now there is not much except that memory bandwidth thingy ) I don't expect anything great from new series.
I agree that overclockers ( especially those who bench on cold ) don't care about efficiency as long as results are good.
I care about max wattage of new AMD as I'm thinking to maybe get one for benching but I will think twice if it has 300W+ as it will overload my ss and results on dice also won't be exceptional.
@Ivy, I'm not sure if you have any idea about Maxwell scalling with voltage. You can set 1500MHz+ without raising voltage on most GTX970 and many GTX980 what barely raises wattage. GTX750/Ti are scalling in similar way.
AMD are pathetic if you look at efficiency scalling while overclocking. Look at every series in last 5 years. 7970 needed huge bump in voltage to make 200MHz more. 290/290X the same so without really big changes in architecture ( right now there is not much except that memory bandwidth thingy ) I don't expect anything great from new series.
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