AMD 965BE Prime Stable @ 4ghz?

[zide]

Hi guys,

I've searched a lot and tested a lot but I can't get it working...

Here is my config:

AMD Phenom II X4 965 Black Edition 3.4 Ghz
2x2GB G.Skill Ripjaws F3-12800CL8D
ASUS m4a785td-v EVO
Powercolor Radeon 5770 HD 1GB GDDR5
Corsair H50 (temps between 29º and 55º @1.6v)
Tower Zalman Z7 Plus (with 3 120mm fans and a nice cable management)
550W
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The most stable 4Ghz configs I've tried were:

- 251*16 @ 1.525v + cpu-nb 1.25v + nb 1.310v + stock timmings @ 1333Mhz

Ran Prime95 (blend) and Skyrim simultaneosly for around an hour before the BSOD.

- 20*200 @ 1.6v + auto cpu-nb & nb + 8-8-8-24 @ 1333Mhz

Ran Prime 95 (blend) for 45mins without errors. BSOD as soon as I started the "In-place large FFTs" in Prime95.

- 236*17 @ 1.55v + cpu-nb 1.275v + nb 1.310 + 7-7-7-20 @ 1333Mhz @ 1.65v

Ran a full 20 cycle test on Linx without errors in 45 mins. BSOD after a minute when tested with "In-place large FFTs" in Prime95.

_________________________________________________________________


I've been testing many other combinations but without luck... I know that every system is a system and that's why I'm asking for your opinion!

What could I do to achieve it? Also, does these "almost stable" OC's mean that I am close? Or is this completely random?

Give me your advise!

Thanks!

 

[Neuromancer]

You are having memory stability issues. 1333 * 251 HTREF clock is 1666 MHz.

Focus on getting your memory clock and CPUNB dialed in properly before clocking the CPU.

1600 mem = 2400 CPUNB minimum some report as much as 4x times actual speed (so 1600= 800 mhz = 3200 MHz CPUNB which IMHO is not a sustainable clock so stick with AMD recommended 3x). should be 1.6vdimm and 1.25v cpunb as you stated in your post. However IIRC deneb has issues with 1600 mem divider.

Your settings look like they should work fine so ironing out this detail and making sure they work "at rated specs" is probably the best place to start. Then you can just Multi clock the CPU up to 20x monitoring load temps.

EDIT: Do you know if you have a C2 or c3 stepping 965?

 

[zide]

Thanks for your reply.

But could you please be more specific? I'm kinda new to this procedures.

If I set the multiplier to 20*200 my NB freq will stay in 2000Mhz, and that's supposed to be 3 times the dram clock, wright? Like, leaving it at 667Mhz.

Or should I put the RAM on 1600 and increase the HT freq to 2400?

Sorry, but I'm kinda confused.

 

[zide]

It's a C3 stepping!

 

[Neuromancer]

C3 is good.

Disable power saving (cool n Quiet) and enable high power mode in windows.

We want to isolate Mem and IMC

So leave CPU multiplier and HTLink multiplier at stock speeds and voltages

Set memory to 1600 8-8-8 1.6 volts (a small bump here like 1.61 just to make sure there is no LLC issues is okay)
Set CPUNB to 12x (2400) and 1.25v if unstable you can increase this a bit.. but 1.25v should be plenty. might even be able to lower that.

(Is that more understandable?)

 

[zide]

Yay, that's better ;>

Everything you said is done! Now what? Should I run a In-place large FFTs in Prime95? (I'll run it!)

 

[zide]

After almost 15 mins of "In-place large FFTs" in Prime95, the temperatures are stable at: CPU-45º & MB- 28º (@Speedfan)

 

[zide]

Increased the multiplier to 20 and tried the vcore @ 1.485v, 1.525v and 1.5v and got a BSOD as soon as I started the Large FFT's in Prime. I'm now testing with vcore @ 1.575

Any ideas?

 

[Neuromancer]

small FFTs will isolate CPU stress. Large IIRC focuses on memory. Although of the tests will find overt failures.

what temperatures were you hitting before you BSODed


EDIT: More vcore will not help if you are passing the 50C load mark... (I noticed you were hitting 45C at stock CPU)

Ahh just noticed you are using an H50 I do not have a lot of experience with them. I just got an antec kuhler 920 for socket 2011 testing, but normally just go with a big fat air cooler. not overly impressed with it on low fan speed configs. with dual high speed fans it seems effective its just loud as heck

Make sure the H50 is working properly, and follow the tips posted online about using it to best configuration. (IIRC people recommend using it as a case intake, and upgrading hte fan on it but not 100% on that)

 

[trents]

Personally, I think your motherboard is the limiting factor here. It's only a 785/710 chipset board. I'm not sure its power regulation components are stout enough to handle a Deneb at 4.0 ghz. Having said that, I question the extra voltage you are putting on the NB chip (1.31v) as being wise or helpful. I might also suggest setting up fans to blow on the chipset and mosfet/VRM sinks.

 

[zide]

It depends, I really think it is not relate with the temperature. I've been checking and it gets the BSOD around 54/55. I am now during a test for 20 mins of blend at prime95, 20*200 @1.6v, 1.25cpu-cn, 9-9-9-24@ 1600, nb freq@2400, and it is reached 57º without crashing...

Is really a difference between dram 1333 and 1600? Because with the 1600 I can´t change the bus speed right? If i increase it in order to decrease the multiplier I won't be able to keep the racio 1/3 - dram/nbfreq.

Edit: Now, after 30 mins of blend at the same confg, my average temps are 54/55. It seems stable! Ran a 3d mark vintage test and a cinebench without any problems!

Again, any other suggestions? It would be great if I could decrease the vcore to decrease these temps a little...

Thanks for your support!

 

[trents]

I'm not talking about the CPU or core temps. I'm talking about the heat buildup on other important motherboard components that regulate power and modulate external buses. These are components that your CPU cooler can't cool.

Concerning 1333 vs. 1600 ram speed if your ram is rated for a max of 1600 (XMP) and you start it out at that speed you will quickly become unstable if you overclock with the fsb because the ram frequency is tuned to the fsb, as are the HT Link and CPUNB frequencies. That's why its much simpler to overclock with the multiplier when you have black edition CPU.

 

[keny]

20*200 @1.6v, 1.25cpu-cn, 9-9-9-24@ 1600, nb freq@2400,

Your'e chip is not going to last long running that vcore 24/7, and i personaly think you are stressing the IMC on the chip running the memory at 1600 when its only rated for 1333, i know sometimes they will run faster, but its not worth it for daily running IMHO

 

[shadowdr]

It depends, I really think it is not relate with the temperature. I've been checking and it gets the BSOD around 54/55. I am now during a test for 20 mins of blend at prime95, 20*200 @1.6v, 1.25cpu-cn, 9-9-9-24@ 1600, nb freq@2400, and it is reached 57º without crashing...

Is really a difference between dram 1333 and 1600? Because with the 1600 I can´t change the bus speed right? If i increase it in order to decrease the multiplier I won't be able to keep the racio 1/3 - dram/nbfreq.

Edit: Now, after 30 mins of blend at the same confg, my average temps are 54/55. It seems stable! Ran a 3d mark vintage test and a cinebench without any problems!

Again, any other suggestions? It would be great if I could decrease the vcore to decrease these temps a little...

Thanks for your support!

You should not need any where near 1.6 volts to hit 4.0, mine does 4.1 at 1.43 volts with CPUZ showing 1.44. I would be afraid that 1.6 over time will cause a good deal of electrical migration and premature failure. I had a 965BE that would only do 3.9 with every attempt to run at 4.0 causing BSOD at some point.

 

[Neuromancer]

Yeah we have to look at motherboard failure and see just how far those rails are bending under that load.

Board SHOULDNT be an issue, I ran a 555BE c3 unlocked over 4 GHz easily with the non evo version.

But much time has passed it might not be up to it now. Focus on motherboard specs. (temps and voltages) and see if everything is jiving.

1.6v should be good for benching near 5GHz IIRC and that was on a C2 stepping! (I was using much better cooling though)

 

[zide]

Well, I've been working on that today and I guess I finally got it stable. But I think I kinda cheated because I changed prime with OCCT. If it is stable on it, screw you Prime95 and that stupid large FFT test.

After some search, I found that the LLC would cause the system to crash and so I put it to 0% and it immediately became stable @ 1.45v. However this setting allows the voltage to alternate and, during the test, it reached sometimes a peak of 1.56v. But during the hour test the average voltage was around 1.49v.

These are my current settings:
20*200 @ 1.45v;
cpu-nb @ 1.3v;
nb freq @ 2600;
dram-1600mhz @ 8-8-8-24 @ 1.62v;
LLC @ 0%;
cool&quiet - ON (i've turn it ON only after the stability tests. However it is not working, I don't know why!);
unleashing mode - ON.

Eveything else was set on AUTO.

Max temp during the OCCT test was 57c and my room's temperature was around 24c.

What do you think?

 

[trents]

If you pass OCCT and not Prime then that points to something with the ram being the culprit, maybe the ram itself or wrong ram settings or a weak IMC on the CPU or even incorrect CPUNB settings.

 

[keny]

Too much strain on the IMC, AMD rates Deneb IMC's @ 1333 so 1600 is pushing the controller and the difference in performance between the two speeds would only be noticeable during benches and negligible during day to day computing, drop the ram to 1333 and run tighter timings and there will be no difference what so ever.

 

[zide]

My current settings:

Unleashing Mode: OFF
LLC: 0%



And this is the result after a 3 hour test with OCCT:


[




Well, my 3DMark Vantage CPU score increased from 13172 to 13528 after I changed from 1333 "7-7-7-21" to 1600 "8-8-8-24" and my Cinebench score went from 4.60 to a 4.75! If these are the advertised standard specs of the RAM, why shouldn' I be using them? I've been searching around and it seems that the Deneb handles it very well!

Thougts? Thanks!

 

[keny]

That's what im saying "you will only notice the difference in benchmarks and not in day to day computing" and you're failing prime because of something and it's pointing to ram, only a good Deneb will handle 1600 memory 24/7,it's not the specs of the ram but the specs of the IMC on the CPU that willbe the limitation , but if you feel comfortable with it passing occt instead of prime as a test that's up to you, I personally think if it's stable enough to do what you want with it without crashing then its stable, but for the ultimate test prime is the standard.