AMD Athlon 64 3200+ (VENICE)

[fxyardtrader]

Hello,

I'm overclocking my old 3200+ Venice CPU, been doing it for one or two weeks now and I noticed how often I was here, in this forum, reading other people's posts about overclocking these AMD cores. It has been very helpful to me, so I decided to register here and see if you guys could help me out too.

Ok, let's get to the subject. My mb is Asus A8N-E and I have stock cooling. So far what I have done, I've been slowly raising FSB and now it is in 290 at multiplier of 9x. So it's a little bit over 2.6GHz now. I've ran Prime95 succesfully through complete stress test, over six hours with no crashes or anything. Temps are in full use around 56C, so it looks like a new cooler wouldn't be a bad idea to get it around 50C, maybe below. I have basic thermal compound now, but Arctic compound is on it's way. So maybe one or two degrees goes with that.

Now it looks like I have a wall up ahead at FSB 290, because raising beyond that system gets unstable, actually not willing to start to Winblows. I don't know if it's my memory which is the neck of a bottle here. Divider (Memclock index) is now set to 266MHz.
HTT is at 3x, was 4x before, but HT speed was over 1100MHz, so I lowered it. Now it's running at 875MHz.

I really don't know anything about memory, so maybe there you guys could help me out. I have 4GB, Kingston PC3200 200MHz. RAM freq is now 187MHz and voltage 2.50V

Should I lower Memclock one step lower, to get more out of the CPU? But how that would affect to overall speed, when memory is running so low freq?


Let's gather those values

FSB (or CPU freq): 290
PCI Express Clock: 100MHz
DDR Voltage: Auto
CPU Multiplier: 9x
CPU Voltage: 1.5125V
PCI Clock Synch: 33.33MHz
HTT 3x
And divider (memclock): 266MHz

I haven't changed timings, yet.

Thanks in advance and greetings from almost warm and sunny Finland.

 

[Johan45]

To the forum fxyardtrader

The 939 takes me back. Had a X2 3800+, Great chip and is still in everyday use just not with me.
You should run P95 and post some HWmonitor pics also CPUz ,memory and spd tabs so we can see all of what's going on.
Also post a sig like the one you see in my post with as much info as possible about your setup.
Isn't the native HT speed 2000MHz on those chips?

 

[mammut]

That Kingston RAm might be good for 240'ish at ~2.75V. 3-3-3-8 @2T.
If you go with 187MHz, can try 3-3-3-7@1T.

HT 3X (or 4x), multi 9x290, RAM DDR333(166) 0.83 ratio.

Calc. online help tool
http://www.freewebs.com/pixdesigns/calc.htm?CpuFsb=290&CpuMux=10&LdtMux=5&RamRat=2.00

HT max recom. is 1000MHz for that gen.

 

[fxyardtrader]

Ok, great. That's a start. Will try those later today and post pics from cpuz.

 

[fxyardtrader]

Ok, here's images from CPU-z

CPU
http://http://i1346.photobucket.com/albums/p696/fxyardtrader/CPU_zps5582aedd.jpg

Memory
http://i1346.photobucket.com/albums/p696/fxyardtrader/memory_zps5ecc9f88.jpg

Speed
http://i1346.photobucket.com/albums/p696/fxyardtrader/speed_zps9f2e3188.jpg

E: Without memory changes.

 

[Johan45]

Follow mamuts advice if you're going to OC then bump the DRam volts a bit see if it will let you. If you're having difficulty then drop the multi get your core where you want it then try to ficcle with the ram to speed it up.
Please attach images to the post in the future. Go to advanced you'll see a paperclip.

 

[fxyardtrader]

Will do. Oh, didn't see attach button.. I have to look again.

I will post results later today. Thank you.

 

[fxyardtrader]

Temps during Prime95, max 56 degrees. Is it too much, would there be a reason to upgrade cooling? System is very old what comes to CPUs today.. socket 939, so is it worth to spend few euros to buy a better fan? Although.. I don't know how far I'm trying to go with this setup. 3GHz would be great, but.. well, just thinking here, giving thoughts.

Looks like I have to play with memory tomorrow.. 1,5 year old child (girl by the way), can really minimize your free time completely.

 

[Mandrake4565]

I may be wrong but I believe the max on the chip is 65c. If you really want to push on it then a new heatsink such as a coolermaster 212+ or evo I believe fits it and would make a great improvement over a stock heatsink. Just make sure it fits inside the case.

 

[fxyardtrader]

I may be wrong but I believe the max on the chip is 65c. If you really want to push on it then a new heatsink such as a coolermaster 212+ or evo I believe fits it and would make a great improvement over a stock heatsink. Just make sure it fits inside the case.

Looks like that's why I'm here.. pushing this to the limit. W7 takes a lot and if some background program takes a lot from CPU, everything else is a pain, so I will look to that heat sink. It is cheap compared to buying a new system.

 

[Tech Tweaker]

Ah, the Athlon 64 3200+ Venice.

That one's a favorite of mine, ever since I had one that went to 3.1GHz

Before we begin I have to ask, what are your plans for this system? Is it your main computer, or are you just having some fun with a backup PC or an old one you had laying around?

Yes, I'd recommend you upgrade the cooling. With stock cooling you're pretty much at the limits of what the stock CPU heatsink can handle right now as far as the heat load is concerned. Really 56°C is pretty hot for one of these, and it's right around the temperature where the socket 939 CPU's tend to get unstable. I personally try to keep mine below 50°C if at all possible, if using air cooling.

The other thing that will hold you back is memory. You say you have 4GB of it, so I am assuming you are running 4x1GB memory modules/sticks. If you're going to go for a higher overclock you'll want to decrease that to two sticks maximum, otherwise you'll be putting more strain on the memory controller and limiting your overclock because of it (also it will cause more heat with 4 modules instead of two, since the memory controller is in the CPU).

Personally as far as a new heatsink I'd recommend the Thermalright Ultima-90 (what I use normally), Ultra 90, or Ultra 120 Extreme (if you can fit it, not all motherboards can fit a cooler this big though). If you go with those though you would have to supply your own fans, since they do not come stock with fans. These are only found on the used market anyway, so it is random whether or not you can find one that comes with fans. There are other good heatsinks out there though in case you would prefer another brand.

For thermal compound I would recommend Arctic Cooling MX-2 or MX-4.

I might recommend using the stock 10x multiplier for the CPU if possible, just because it will put less stress on your northbridge (and less heat), then you can run 10x260 for 2.6GHz.

As far as the HT Link speed, you should be fine as long as you keep it below 1200MHz (for most motherboards anyway, some will have trouble going over 1100MHz though. I generally try to keep it as close to 1000MHz as possible though, even though I know my boards can handle higher speeds.

What kind of cooler are you running on the northbridge (aka chipset) by the way? Stock I'm guessing?

If you increase your CPU multiplier to 10x and lower FSB to 260MHz for 2.6GHz I'd recommend setting your DRAM clock/memclock to 333MHz, which should give you a memory speed around DDR432 (216MHz)/PC3500, then set Cas Latency to 3, RAS# to CAS# Delay (tRCD) to 3, RAS# Precharge (tRP) to 3, and Cycle Time (tRC) to 8. Also, I'd recommend increasing memory voltage up to 2.7V to increase your chances of keeping the memory stable. Most memory modules should be able to run at these settings, but there are some that won't.

If you could post the model numbers from your memory (or a picture of the sticks with the model number) that would be helpful in attempting to identify them. Also pictures of the insides of your computer would be good too so that anyone who is interested in helping can see what you are dealing with.

Most of the 3200+ Venice CPU's max out around 2.8-2.9GHz with good air cooling, some can do 3.0-3.1GHz with a good CPU and board though.

I don't have my overclock settings for the 3200+ Venice with me right now as I'm at work, but I can check to see what I had when I get home.

 

[fxyardtrader]

Tech Tweaker: That was helpful post, I'll post pics from my memory. I haven't thought about decreasing memory, though it is pretty logical here.
Looks like the coolers which you mention are pretty hard to find. I can get Coolermasters a fare price here in Finland.. and I think technology today is wayy better than back then when my cooler was a good choice. I will check my cooler tomorrow. I actually bought this system from my old employer which did a bankcrupty few years ago. They used it to 3D designing back then, I just upgraded the GPU. I use my i7 laptop mostly, so this desktop have been laying around and now I got to play with it. I consider it as a gaming system, because I don't want to install games to my work laptop.
What comes to my memory, there is two sticks same of a ind and two sticks completely different from these two and each other. One stick hyper x and one sonething else, I will check that tomorrow and send photos.

Thanks to you, I'm very delighted to see how you guys help unknown people here. This is something which we don't have in Finland.

 

[fxyardtrader]

Tech Tweaker: Ok, now I've done those changes which you mentioned. Everything went fine, but as soon as I changed memdivider to 333MHz, the system won't boot. So, it has something to do with memory, right?
Lower is attached photos of CPU-z with new settings. HT Speed looks quite low, so maybe I should change it to x4 instead of x3, right?

About that memory, I have a "kit of 2", so it's 1GB per stick. Model is here: KVR400X64C3AK2/2G. These two sticks are what my co-workers back then ordered.
I took off two sticks, which were: 1GB Kingston Hyper X KHX3200A/1G and Kingston KVR400X64C3A/1G. These two sticks are what I had left overs from older desktops.


Memory slots in use are 3 and 4 and number four have same specs as slot 3.

E: Samsung Kies and W7 64bit just won't match.. remember. Getting drivers for Note 2 can be really painful as W7 tries to use it's own drivers instead of Samsung drivers. Blah..

 

[keny]

Here's the settings I used for running a CPUz on my old Venice 3200, I love messing with the old stuff and its a blast to tinker with, the max CPUz and max stable are not too far apart (a couple of hundred MHz max) si it should give a rough Idea of what's achievable or not

http://valid.canardpc.com/show_oc.php?id=2568888

I thought you would help out here tweak

 

[fxyardtrader]

Nice setup there you have. What cooler you used, air or water and which brand and how your core voltage is so low?

So 3gig is possible.. that's good news. Hopefully that is possible for me too.

Yeah, messing with old school PC is something. I still have my very first pentium 75MHz power machine and I found burned Win95 and 98 cds and 6.1 MS-Dos disks. Thats late ninetie's. Maybe someday I woke that beast up.

 

[keny]

Nice setup there you have. What cooler you used, air or water and which brand and how your core voltage is so low?

So 3gig is possible.. that's good news. Hopefully that is possible for me too.
)

Its probably on my TTFrio but I cant remember for sure but definately air, as for the core voltage, don't take no notice of that, it is a glitch with CPUz, it would have been higher than that and that clock won't be a 24/7 stable, you would be looking at a few 100mhz less for 24/7, but still fun to get to

 

[Tech Tweaker]

Tech Tweaker: Ok, now I've done those changes which you mentioned. Everything went fine, but as soon as I changed memdivider to 333MHz, the system won't boot. So, it has something to do with memory, right?
Lower is attached photos of CPU-z with new settings. HT Speed looks quite low, so maybe I should change it to x4 instead of x3, right?

About that memory, I have a "kit of 2", so it's 1GB per stick. Model is here: KVR400X64C3AK2/2G. These two sticks are what my co-workers back then ordered.
I took off two sticks, which were: 1GB Kingston Hyper X KHX3200A/1G and Kingston KVR400X64C3A/1G. These two sticks are what I had left overs from older desktops.


Memory slots in use are 3 and 4 and number four have same specs as slot 3.

E: Samsung Kies and W7 64bit just won't match.. remember. Getting drivers for Note 2 can be really painful as W7 tries to use it's own drivers instead of Samsung drivers. Blah..

Yes, that is a memory problem.

I think I see the problem there, your Bank Cycle Time (tRC) is set too low/tight on the timing. I would increase that to 12 (or just set it to Auto, which should get it at about the same setting).

Yes, I would recommend increasing your HT Link multiplier up to 4x. I'd say keep it at 4x up until you hit around 270-275MHz FSB (or until you hit instability), assuming you do that is, since not all chips will reach that high of a Front Side Bus speed.

Okay, I'd recommend running with the two matching sticks then. I can't say for certain what kind of memory chips those Kingston Value Ram sticks are running, just not finding any info on them at the moment.

Also, you should put your memory into slots 1&3 or 2&4 if you want them to give you better bandwidth and speed and run in dual-channel mode, as I see from one of your screenshots that you are currently running in single channel.

Voltage settings I used when overclocking mine:
2.0GHz (stock): 1.3-1.31V (1.35)
2.4GHz: Not tested
2.5GHz: Not tested
2.6GHz: Not tested
2.7GHz: Not tested
2.8GHz: 1.38-1.39V (1.425V)
3GHz: 1.54-1.55V (1.350V x 116.8%=1.5768)

The voltage on the left is what I actually observed while in the OS running programs such as CPUID Hardware Monitor, CPU-Z, and SpeedFan. The voltage on the right is what I had actually set it to in the bios. There is some "Voltage Drop" (the Voltage will "drop" below the voltage set in the motherboard's BIOS for one reason or another, mainly due to electrical resistance as far as I know) on my board, as there tends to be on almost every board (from this era at least), as well as "Voltage Droop" (Voltage tends to "droop" when the system is placed under a heavy load).

Also, here are some of my screenshots:

Here's the settings I used for running a CPUz on my old Venice 3200, I love messing with the old stuff and its a blast to tinker with, the max CPUz and max stable are not too far apart (a couple of hundred MHz max) si it should give a rough Idea of what's achievable or not

http://valid.canardpc.com/show_oc.php?id=2568888

I thought you would help out here tweak

You know me too well kenny, I just love talking about and tinkering with the older stuff.

I'm kind of surprised more of the people that are into old gear haven't popped in here yet.

 

[mammut]

Should definitely try running the RAM config in dual channel mode and preferably
with as high frequency it can take. The benefit of a high memory bandwidth is noticeable
in all-round usage.
terkkuja.

 

[fxyardtrader]

Ok, I moved the sticks into slots 1 and 3. So it's dual again.

I loosened Bank Cycle time and started to raise FSB again. Now it is at 275, x10 and HTT at x3. HT dropped kind of low, but raising it to 4x and it goes around 1100MHz, so two options, which one is better? About that FSB raising, I noticed that A8N-E doesn't like big jumps.. I had to go with one or two MHz at a time to get 275.

After FSB 275, system goes unstable.. blue screens, keyboard not working properly and jamming into Windows 7 bootlogo.. stuff like that. Does this mean, we have a maximum OC with CPU?

Memory is kind of tricky.. soon as I go with 333MHz, system won't post. So is there anything to do with that, other than to buy a new memory?

I haven't tested these settings with Prime95 yet, that I will do tomorrow. In the mean time, I will start overclocking my GT 9800 with afterburner MSI. Let's see how that goes..

mammut: samoin sinne.

Edit: Would it be a good idea to start lowering the core voltage, to get it as low as possible? 1.58 is pretty high..

 

[Tech Tweaker]

Ok, I moved the sticks into slots 1 and 3. So it's dual again.

I loosened Bank Cycle time and started to raise FSB again. Now it is at 275, x10 and HTT at x3. HT dropped kind of low, but raising it to 4x and it goes around 1100MHz, so two options, which one is better? About that FSB raising, I noticed that A8N-E doesn't like big jumps.. I had to go with one or two MHz at a time to get 275.

After FSB 275, system goes unstable.. blue screens, keyboard not working properly and jamming into Windows 7 bootlogo.. stuff like that. Does this mean, we have a maximum OC with CPU?

Memory is kind of tricky.. soon as I go with 333MHz, system won't post. So is there anything to do with that, other than to buy a new memory?

I haven't tested these settings with Prime95 yet, that I will do tomorrow. In the mean time, I will start overclocking my GT 9800 with afterburner MSI. Let's see how that goes..

mammut: samoin sinne.

Edit: Would it be a good idea to start lowering the core voltage, to get it as low as possible? 1.58 is pretty high..

Yes, 1.58V is a little high for that level of overclock. I'd drop that down to 1.45V and see if it will run at that voltage level. Which should drop your temps down a bit too.

As for instability past 275MHz, that could be your northbridge overheating. Do you still have the stock heatsink on that? I'd recommend upgrading to a better cooler on there in addition to a new CPU heatsink, because that could be one thing that is limiting your overclock. Stock heatsinks aren't typically known for cooling well and/or running cool.

On the memory you could try raising the voltage to 2.75V. Really the kind of performance and speeds it will run at depends on what kind of memory chips it has and what they are rated to on their maximum frequency (speed). Really I'd be surprised if they don't run at the 333MHz multiplier at some settings of some sort. Also, you could try running looser timings at say 3-4-4-8 or 3-4-4-10 rather than 3-3-3-8 and see if that works.

I'd say try the x4 multiplier for 1100MHz and see if it is stable at that frequency setting.