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asus z87 decision help

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HiJack. In 7 years I'm hoping the brainiacs will make retail quantum computers that I can wear while at the beach, and will mow the lawn back home whilst mixing a margarita in both locations simultaneously.

And hope I'm not asking to much. Oh yeah, and need no cooling.
 
hum strange post robert and it seems youve been copying because been reading this on other forums a while ago

but now that youre on it

i hope in 7 years im still alive that my wife is ok that i dont have to kick my adolecent boy in the nuts and still read about the brainiacs that will make quantum computers ...
ooo and i hope im not asking tomuch but that smartasses actualy get an brain


back on topic
from i saw on the line-up of msi,asrock,gigabyte,asus

heres my 2 cents

msi i will say ....noway
asrock i will say ...you can do better
gigabyte i will say .....maybe ...just maybe
asus i will say .....good but they still can do better

all 4 of them have upgraded sounds (dont care about it)
some have mpcie dual or not (dont care)
all 4 have on most board additional power connection for cpu 4,6,8,double 8 (should i care? someone sayed cpus dont need much power anymore)
some have copper caps some have those japs black and some dont have any caps
(what would you choose?)
some use fan on the vrm some use fan and wc connection and some just use sink
(someone sayed you dont need any of them)
and i can go on
basicly i need the reputation and reliability of asus the cool looks of gygabyte and the price of msi (cant find anything from asrock)
gona be hard to find

ok serious now the gygabyte oc force seems great ,to bad its build for benchmark tables
didnt saw any picture yet of the oc one
down on the line cant find anything for my taste
asrock and msi are out of the question
and again the asus ones ...
 
Why are you ruling out a mobo built for a benching table whe you are wanting a board nuilt for LN2? I would say buy whatever you want but if I gave advice I would say get a Gigabyte Z87 UD5... what do you mean reliability.m of asus and looks of gigabyte? The factory the the gigabyte boards cone from are the same as the asus ones... personqlly more asus boards that I have bought died more than others... but its a lottery ..
 
yea youre right i didnt mensioned anything how i come on my opinions

so i will open my mind abit for you

on msi its the quality finish who is disapointing example look at the japanees black caps

the gigabyte force also use them but with better and full fitting around the capacitors than the msi

the asrock has copper colored capacitors and some boards just the silver ones
im not 100% sure yet but i think it isnt real copper

for the gigabyte oc force let me say this ,this board is nice and if they take out the benchmark table stuff off on the oc then this board has an chance to get in my rig
its just i dont want to pay for example an gpu bracket or oc buttons on the board
but i think old ppl would like those buttons because it feels like old school ocing
and no im not gona discuss on "what is old ?"

so if you asking me if the gigabyte oc force is an good board i will say yes because the board is well finished has al the features you will needed and there arent fake componants, itswell designed and will fit nicely on the bench
(hum that doesnt sounds like an loyal asus follower isnt it? )

about fail rates ppl Always use or the total nr or the percent but never both so they can choose whats looking the worse

i didnt looked yet at youre link and will after this post

the reliability on asus is my experience in my house ,in my town , in my country and i can say that the boards that has returned to asus because of failure on asus fault is very very very low and keep in mind i sayed "asus fault"

let me gimmy little example :let say an 15 year old boy is building hes first pc on hes own
he buys an asus board because ppl told them they are the best or he liked it by seeing ads ...
on the building he didnt used grounded gloves or mat and gave an static shock on the board that he didnt noticed then he start hes pc and smoke comes out hes case

then he blames asus to give him an bad board , on the other hand asus send him an new one to keep the client happy

you can be 100% sure that this event is added in the rates

if the asus boards come out the same factory as gigabyte then the fail rate should be close together
if not then something is wrong with the rate and has to be look at why

i hope it made some sence to you guys but let me say this

you get what you pay for no matter what brand or type you buy
the problem is that the majority of the people dont use it as it supposed to work
and someone sayed here in this topic already ppl Always look and wants the best and alot of time they get dissapointed because it isnt working well
the main thing is compatibility ,pc shops does build the pieces together what you ask but never take the responsability if it doesnt work
thats why they sell selfmade barbones where the items is on the list with tested compatibility who only pro can look into it

and pls o pls dont ask to explain my self all the time , but if youre an textwall addict go ahead ask
everything i say you can look up at google , chrome ,Firefox or what ever if you know where to look
the last days ive been using my free time making all those walltext and cant do more research
tommorow the nvidia 780 comes out ....so alot of text to read for me ...

now lets see that link
 
As a note, the color of paint on the outside of capacitors has nothing to do with their actual quality, despite what motherboard manufactures would like you to think.
 
I will not comment on the eye-candy department as that is personal opinion and I respect yours, as I expect you to respect mine. I'll just highlight that quality has nothing to do with looks. At all. The white and blue caps are probably the same as the other caps, as long as they are all the same kind and from a similar manufacturer.

The percentage is a balanced way of expressing the average of RMAs a company has had to fulfill. Even though Statistics are pretty easy to fake and make them display what you want to display, as a statistician friend of mine told me, I am pretty sure OCF has no kind of shady contract with any of the manufacturers, and ED sounds like a pretty sensible guy.

Your house, your town, your country... that is a small part of the world, isn't it? Your experience could be explained by scientifics as an anomaly of the average. I am in no way saying ASUS is a bad brand, nor that the others are better. I am not loyal to any brand, excluding nVidia to an extent, as my previous experience with Linux and AMD cards scarred me, though it seems they improved over time, specially with Steam coming.

Regarding the novice hypothesis, it is just that, an hypothesis, a possible explanation. We can't prove it wrong or right, so I'll give you the benefit of the doubt.

"you get what you pay for no matter what brand or type you buy". TF2. You don't need to pay for it in order to play. Does that mean it will not provide me with the same feeling of joy and fun a AAA title will? Certainly not.

Or, and let me highlight that I do not intend to start a OS flamewar here, they all have their pros and cons, what about Linux vs Windows? I paid no money to use Arch Linux, does that make it a worse OS? It fits the bill, it lets me tinker with it as much as I want to, I know what is going on every second, it gives me actual error messages instead of a faint "Your computer had to restart"... et caetera. Is here the upper hand for the "premium" OSes like Windows or Mac?

Compatibility is just being able to discriminate square pegs from round holes. Checking lists, making sure you buy the proper hardware for your needs, making sure it all fits nicely together... It isn't rocket science. It isn't something that requires an EE to look at. Most times, barebones are sold for specific niche markets with "propietary" hardware, for example, Shuttles or Clevo laptops.

I am going to go straight to the point. You want a motherboard for your system. You gave us some choices. We analyzed them, and we thought that you could use another cheaper board that would provide the same features. We gave to factual information proving these suggestions. You ignored these. It seems it bothers you when we recommend you a product that does not have ASUS on it, or that is not the top-high-end-est component, something you do not seem to need as you will not shoot for WRs on HWBOT, and that is the only point of those boards.

If this is what you want to hear, go on, get the ASUS Maximus VI Extreme and enjoy it. It is your money. That board is overpriced for normal usage, but if you can afford it and you truly want it, go for it. No, it will not guarantee a bazillion megahertzs over air, that is CPU dependant and nowadays the motherboard has nothing to say as long as it uses a overclocking-capable chipset. No, there's no guarantee it will work for 7 years with no hiccups. No, it will not improve your computer's performance at all compared to any other Z87 board worth its salt. But, it's your money. You can do what you want with it. You're free to do your bidding.

We don't have shares on any special company, we just want the best for our forum fellows. If you don't want to hear to the advice of those with a little bit more experience than you, it's all right.
 
exactly what i ment Bob

you guys ready for another text wall ? lolz

ive read the posting at that link but didnt read the whole topic
and this pops up my mind reading that

the data comes from an retailer in france , question 1 who is it?,question 2 what kind of retailer
(for those who wander yes i speak French too)

answer 1: while googling it to find out the firm that pops out is "idlc"
answer 2 : its an net retailer and delivery is only by chipment
considiration: transport damage is high in europe thats why chipment delivery does not have great sucess the only countrys where chipment delivery is high is Germany and england on amounts but also norweghe ,sweden but thats because population is low on the square meters surface and distance between towns is far (kind like US)

the poster is smart because he said you need to consider consumers fault and unsolded returns back to factory but the numbers is not been taking out the rates
question 1 how much has to be consider consumers fault
question 2 how much amount is unsolded returns?
answer1 :i cant pinpoint the numbers and cant tell the numbers you can take out some % but its not acurate
answer 2 again exact numbers i cant give but i will say high but depends the speed of upgraded lines or trend and i know that for net retailer its high because sells increase every new trend on new items and decrease on older parts and it also depends on what contract the reseller is on with the dealer seller the shorter time on the return posibility the better renewing rate and better selling rate and
the bigger resail compagny the better contract (shorter return time) they can force off the dealer seller and in that post it said the biggest reseller in france

the smart poster also said that the data isnt accurate (because of the above)but can give some indication

to keep it short on the poster he coverd all the bases took out all the possible traps
and he know that those numbers arent 100% correct so if the rate is wrong its not hes fault and i agree on that

now about the rate numbers

ASRock 1.90% (as against 2.1%) 0.20%differane
MSI 2.11% (as against 1.5%) 0.61% differance
Gigabyte 2.17% (as against 1.6%) 0.57% differance
ASUS 2.66% (as against 2.2%) 0.46% differance

-They all raised just not the asrock and my personal conclusion without back checking it reflects the sells
msi starts to sell more to ocers because they started to build with some better parts
same for gigabyte after some important news came up and wasnt know before
asus sells still have an increase of sells but loosing alot of consumers who did go to msi or gigabyte

If we look more particularly at the rates for motherboards with a P67 chipset, we get the following scores:

- ASRock 1.75%
- MSI 2.46%
- ASUS 3.71%
- Gigabyte 5.04%

The Gigabyte score is rather off-putting but is adversely affected by one model, the GA-P67A-UD3 with a returns rate of 7.51% for around 1/3 of sales. Generally speaking, several models have rates of over 5%:

-my conclusion on this
because asrock sells dropped the return is low (because ocers loosing interest in the brand)
the majority use of msi mb is by ppl with low assets and an very small part ocers but sells are increasing to ocers the numbers seems normal and true
the majority use of asus is ocer and extreme ocer and the numbers seems normal and true
now about gigabyte the high rate is easely explained the sells of theyre board has increased masifely and recflects the time frame when it acured and the majority use changed from low ocers to ocers and extreme ocers ,for that increase of failure is expected

- 11.17%: ASUS M4A79XTD Evo
- 8.76%: ASUS P8H67-M Evo
- 7.51%: Gigabyte GA-P67A-UD3
- 6.83%: ASUS P8P67 Deluxe
- 6.69%: ASUS Sabertooth X58
- 6.42%: ASUS P8P67 Evo


i didnt checked up the boards but i see an line here ,do you see it?
and no im not talking about that the most are asus ,you see it now?
beside one board im not sure of it but all the rest are boards that pop up on forums for ocing
the gigabyte seems not to fit in this line up but in fact it is

its one of the cheapest standard ones
remember my previous post? "you get what you pay for"
the gigabyte news on that time made ppl to jump on them and expected to get great oc with it even with the low ud3

in the post it said that they consider only boards that are between 6 month and 1 year in use
so for an part it exclude (but not totaly) the transport damage and the build damage(not totaly)

now i gona let you think something out :
someone experienced or not gona oc hes mb can you figure out the time frames how that person build and oc hes pc and how it would do it?how long it takes for a person to decide its enouf

i know the answer on this and i tell you that this rates doesnt show asus in bad way
it just show that ppl handled theyre oc in bad way and that for the 4 brands

for me the right numbers would reflect the real failures if they would take consideration of an working time frame from 2 weeks to 1 months because thats the real brand failure
time frame
 
First of all...it's a percentage. Percentages are not affected by the number they sell. ASRock having a lower failure rate because they sold less boards is bad logic.

Second, I study economics and can tell you that "you get what you pay for" is wrong. Price is determined in large by what someone is willing to pay for it, which can be changed by many other means (such as marketing) other than the quality of the product.

Everything you mentioned about why the numbers would be wrong (such as shipping, etc) would affect all brands equally, so the numbers are still useful for seeing the relationship between brands.

Again, we're trying to help you and it seems like you've already made a decision and all you're doing is ignoring our suggestions, this seems rather pointless.
 
I still do not understand you say I want the Maximus VI Extreme that is in fact built for people wanting to pour LN2 on top of it. Yet you say the Gigabyte oc force is built for benching table (Which by that logic so is the MVIE) It will still have mounting points for a case. Also in the past 7 years I haven't used any anti static mat or wristband. Mobos aren't as vulnerable to static as they used to be. Please give logic on why you say what you say because so far you have none which leads me.to.believe you have no clue what to do... also what knufire said the market dictates prices to the point of what people pay.
 
i will keep this short
its easy to bash somebody who dares you out isnt it?

1) i never ignored somebodys advice in this topic in fact theres only 2 advices
a)buy the sabertooth
b) dont buy the extreme VI or deluxe

and all other post is about attacking me and try to make me look as an idiot

advising the sabertooth is wrong and never got any other advice on an board
advising not to buy the extreme or deluxe is right, its overkill

and i gues the next post will be " why dont you lissen,why is sabertooth wrong?"

but first thing first saying that the advice is based on factual information on items that isnt out yet ,no specs,no stats are out yet doesnt make you reliable as adviser

and secondary do youre research before advising anything

knufire :i said the % reflect the sells didnt said i base this on the % but i base this on the world selling scale of the brand that i had to search it up to compare those numbers

no im not smarter then you guys i just do my research very deaply
i try to rely on you guys advice with the information at hand of this moment i was hoping that someone could came up with good advice on an board if it wasnt the extreme or deluxe and can back it up that makes sence

sofar this topic has been disapointed not like the watercooling topic maybe its the way you guys trying to advice me

i know by fact that extreme or the deluxe is overkill for me and that even before i came on this topic
but wanted to know if i choose one of this 2 what would it be?and can i have help to decide it?

a way its funny to read that i ignore advices but above all you guys ignore everything i say now im off to work my nightshift sleep well
 
Are you talking about market share? Their failure rates still wouldn't be affected by market share.

We can't back up anything, since, as you said, the boards aren't out yet. Right now, all our advice is under the assumption that the Z87 boards will be similar to the Z77 and Z68 and P67 boards, which were all very similar.

If you had asked the same question about Z77, I would have recommended the ASUS P8Z77-V, the Gigabyte UD3H or UD5H, or the ASRock Extreme6. My recommendation for the Sabertooth was only because it had a longer warranty, no other reason.
 
Don't get me wrong. Reading my post again it might have sounded a little bit harsh. That was not my intention, sorry.

There have been more advice here than just "get the Sabertooth" (something I do not recommend) or "ditch the Maximus".

We just want the best thing for you. It is true that no Z87 board has been released, but from experience of previous ROG boards we know that it is not necessary for daily usage. We just want you to save a pretty penny.

If you had asked the same question about Z77, I would have recommended the ASUS P77-V, the Gigabyte UD, or the ASRock Extreme6. My recommendation for the Sabertooth was only because it had a longer warranty, no other reason.

Why the Extreme6? I haven't really read any review regarding the Z77 flavors, but back on P67, the only difference between the 6 and the 4 were a couple extra SATA and USB 3.0 ports. Something that was not worth it IMHO.
 
My bad, it was the MOSFETs, not the VRMs. And the lack of a doubler:
http://www.overclockers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=722124

ASRock is using D-PAK MOSFETs under the heatsinks, D-PAKs were phased out years ago on enthusiast VRMs because of their lack of performance compared to newer low RDS(ON) packages such as PowerPAK and LF-PAK when it comes to thermals. They can cause a lot of heat as they aren?t so well suited for really fast switching power supplies such as needed for newer processors. However you can find them on a few sub $80 motherboards and the Z77 Extreme4.
What bothers me about a lot of reviewers is that they totally miss this issue, most possibly because they don?t bother popping off the heatsinks.

Here we have another oddity, Instead of using a doubler/dual-driver for each 2 phases such as the Z77 Extreme6 does, the Z77 Extreme4 uses 5 Intersil ISL6612 which are just simple drivers(4 for the vCore and 1 for the iGPU). Now ASRock is also doubling its phases, however the issues here is that they are linking two phases to each other, so it is a big 4 phase VRM made to look like a 8 phase VRM with added inductors. There VRM is controlled by an ISL6367, a very high tech analog PWM. We will get into the PWM more with the Z77 Extreme6, as ASRock advertises the PWM as fully digital, while even Intersil doesn?t do this. The Z77 Extreme4?s VRM needs to be a bit better, I mean they could have just used 4 phases of high quality and still had the same cost, but sometimes they have to play the phase wars against GIGABYTE and ASUS. Every phase in my book requires its own driver, thus making this board a 4 phase VRM.
 
O.K. Perhaps I should have not thrown out any comments. But as you said ballbreeder, now I'm in it.

Money's tight. You've got a young family, an older computer you want to pass down, you want to build a newer unit that will last you 7 years, your cycle of upgrade apparently. And you want advice so that your hard-earned money won't be wasted, you won't get frustrated. If I'm missing any points you made, correct me.

So here it is. What will you be "throwing at it", the new build, in 6 years? Hard to say. Your needs will change perhaps. Software will change. Your primary concern at the moment is reliability. All the boards mentioned have a defined failure rate. No matter what board you choose you are tossing the dice. Will you get one on the good side of the success rate or the bad side of the failure rate? No guarantees whatsoever what will happen up front so no matter what you choose, if you get a bad board you'll have to make a warranty claim and then have ill feelings toward the Brand you chose.

Many of the posters to your thread have built a lot of computers in their lives. Certainly more than 2 every 7 years. And have dealt with bad mother boards and other equipment. Even killed their share while enjoying their passion. So any advice from us isn't from just a set of stats on failure rates but has to do with upgrades, long term use, short term projects, passing down equipment and then maintaining it. Lots more is going into the advice than stats. So be a bit more open minded than you appear in your posts.

I was throwing a barb at your statement about a computer lasting 7 years. I admit it. I am a smartass, yes, and then some. And quantum computers: no, not copying anything. I've been reading about the technology for over a dozen years, reading up on the advancements with regularity and that technology may be in limited use before the next 7 years pass from what I've read and studied. So maybe it isn't too far fetched to expect to see you back here in 6 years wondering which quantum series has the least failures, the magneto induced phasing or the laser induced?

I sincerely hope that you enjoy your next build and that you and your 7 year old share many wonderful memories together, especially if he gets the computer enthusiast bug ! :cool:
 
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