At which point will my CPU "bottleneck" my GPU?

[Xenharmonic]

Hi guys, I'm a noob and I'm trying to upgrade my graphics card.
My PC is: http://h10025.www1.hp.com/ewfrf/wc/document?cc=au&lc=en&dlc=en&docname=c03000845

Which has the: AMD A8 3800 Processor
(I hear you can't really upgrade the processor with HP computers =( )

Now I orignally wanted to get an MSI 7850 power edition (and also upgrade my power supply)—but after asking on another hardware forum they told me that there would be no point as the "APU" would bottleneck the performance of the graphics card.
Is this true?
Someone suggested a 7750, but now im worried that the CPU will bottleneck it as well =/.
The standard MSI 7750 has a core clock of 830Mhz.
According to some the 7770 would be a good option. The normal version is 1GHZ, and the OC'd is 1.1GHZ

Guys im really sorry I had to post this here =( but I would really benefit from some advice about upgrading my graphics card.
Thanks so much guys, by posting in this thread, you've made a noob very happy

 

[RGone]

I thought the system in question was an OEM with proprietary motherboard and power supply. Followed your link and surely enough it is a ready-built HP system. Most OEM systems are not generally very upgradeable. Well mostly only with what the system builder recommends.

Your system shows that it came with an add-in video card the Nvidia GT 520 and the way HP has it setup you cannot then use the onboard video at all. This would seem to defeat the purpose of having a Cpu that is an APU with cpu and video inside the same component.

The APU in its' cpu section is default clocked at 2.4 Ghz and if not processing much information can Turbo Core itself up to 2.7Ghz. Not very fast cpu power for 2GB performance video cards.

Then when looking at the case itself, it is a small mini-tower and depending on its' design, I wonder if the bigger and longer video cards will even fit the case. Certainly there is doubt the video card can run cool enough in that very small container.

Then the power supply is supposed to be only a proprietary 300 watt version and the video card has a 6 pin Pci-e power plug on it for drawing up to 150 watts by design. Will the card draw 150 watts from your under-powered 300watt supply? No certainly not all the time, but it will be severly hampered if it did. The GT 520 card does not have an added PCI-e power input so it is designed to run within the rated output of the HP installed power supply.

So there we are again when talking of upgrading a pre-configured OEM computer; in that that the OEM is just not really giving us a very good upgradeable path. I certainly would rather have at least a 4 core processor running at 3600Mhz if I planned on trying to buy a $300.00 (maybe more in AU) and then need a better power supply for more money and still be at the point of wondering if the video card could even run cool in such a tiny OEM case without enough fans to get air to the video card.

Cpu bottleneck? What about power and room for the video card and cooling it? I think those are way more of a concern to begin with, not to mention the slow CPU mhz that the OEM bios will not allow to overclock like most good DIY systems will allow.

I think the video card upgrade is bottle-necked everywhere from the first thought. Maybe someone else will have another idea.

 

[funnyperson1]

Hi guys, I'm a noob and I'm trying to upgrade my graphics card.
My PC is: http://h10025.www1.hp.com/ewfrf/wc/document?cc=au&lc=en&dlc=en&docname=c03000845

Which has the: AMD A8 3800 Processor
(I hear you can't really upgrade the processor with HP computers =( )

Now I orignally wanted to get an MSI 7850 power edition (and also upgrade my power supply)—but after asking on another hardware forum they told me that there would be no point as the "APU" would bottleneck the performance of the graphics card.
Is this true?
Someone suggested a 7750, but now im worried that the CPU will bottleneck it as well =/.
The standard MSI 7750 has a core clock of 830Mhz.
According to some the 7770 would be a good option. The normal version is 1GHZ, and the OC'd is 1.1GHZ

Guys im really sorry I had to post this here =( but I would really benefit from some advice about upgrading my graphics card.
Thanks so much guys, by posting in this thread, you've made a noob very happy

Hey Xenharmonic,

Welcome to the Overclockers forums, please don't feel sorry for asking valid questions here.

I was going to tell you to go for the 7770 because it's probably worth the extra $20 over the 7750.

However without upgrading your power supply you are probably better off with the 7750 800Mhz edition which is powered completely from the PCIE slot. I don't think it will be worth it for you to buy a new PSU+7770 unless you also plan to upgrade the motherboard and CPU in the future.

Whether or not the CPU will be a bottleneck for the 7770 probably depends on what games you want to play. Most FPS games are usually GPU intensive (Crysis2, COD, etc.) but many popular games are more dependant on CPU power (GTAIV, DiabloIII).

 

[Xenharmonic]

Hey Xenharmonic,

Welcome to the Overclockers forums, please don't feel sorry for asking valid questions here.

I was going to tell you to go for the 7770 because it's probably worth the extra $20 over the 7750.

However without upgrading your power supply you are probably better off with the 7750 800Mhz edition which is powered completely from the PCIE slot. I don't think it will be worth it for you to buy a new PSU+7770 unless you also plan to upgrade the motherboard and CPU in the future.

Whether or not the CPU will be a bottleneck for the 7770 probably depends on what games you want to play. Most FPS games are usually GPU intensive (Crysis2, COD, etc.) but many popular games are more dependant on CPU power (GTAIV, DiabloIII).

Thanks guys— I've come to the ultimate conclusion that I might have to wait a couple of years to get the high performance shiny stuff I wanted .
I think ill get a 7770 and a new power supply—at least that way when the PC gets old i'll be able to kick that AMD8's arse?

 

[Neuromancer]

The integrated 6550D in your 3800 will outperform the 520 in benches, so I would pull that card if you have a 520 installed.

LLano APUs see even more improvement when coupled with high speed RAM. Depending on what speed yours came with upgrading to 1866 will further improve the GPU performance of the 6550D. If you are running 1600 already, thats fine it appears the jump from 1600 to 1866 is VERY small in games, but it is a 15-20% increase from 1333 in low res/low details gaming which is all you can expect from the IGP anyway.

You can hybrid crossfire with a 6670 as well which can make higher res gaming doable.

http://www.guru3d.com/article/amd-a83800-llano-processor-review/11

HP says "integrated video is disabled with use of a graphics card" however they are pairing it with an nvidia card so of course not.

I would geta video card from a store with a great return policy or purchase a used video card for very cheap to test it out. Worse case scenario you would only be a out a few bucks returning it or using it in another PC. (Say one that only has Intel integrated graphics


EDIT:

 

[RGone]

^ Or NO intergrated graphics at all. Hehehe,.

 

[Neuromancer]

lol that image shows which cards are supported in hybrid mode. No DG or attach only means no hybrid I would think...

I really find it hard to beleive that a llano setup (no matter who builds it) would completely disable the integral GPU when PCIE was populated since the lanes are there for both. (might not be crossfire, but should still work)

You would have to add a cutoff onto the board and HP removes things doesnt add them. And claims its a hudson D2 chipset..

 

[funnyperson1]

The integrated 6550D in your 3800 will outperform the 520 in benches, so I would pull that card if you have a 520 installed.

LLano APUs see even more improvement when coupled with high speed RAM. Depending on what speed yours came with upgrading to 1866 will further improve the GPU performance of the 6550D. If you are running 1600 already, thats fine it appears the jump from 1600 to 1866 is VERY small in games, but it is a 15-20% increase from 1333 in low res/low details gaming which is all you can expect from the IGP anyway.

You can hybrid crossfire with a 6670 as well which can make higher res gaming doable.

http://www.guru3d.com/article/amd-a83800-llano-processor-review/11

HP says "integrated video is disabled with use of a graphics card" however they are pairing it with an nvidia card so of course not.

I would geta video card from a store with a great return policy or purchase a used video card for very cheap to test it out. Worse case scenario you would only be a out a few bucks returning it or using it in another PC. (Say one that only has Intel integrated graphics


EDIT:

This is probably the easiest and most affordable approach for OP to get decent graphics performance. It's great because you don't have to worry about power and heat constraints since the 6670 doesn't need external PCIE power.

 

[RGone]

Neuromancer, not sure about that graphics thing of no IGp if there is a discrete card. Even the first boards had to have a switch added in bios to enable both at the same time. So it may disable by default and not by default enabled.

I can see a reason for OEM rigs for many, but I just am not able yet to see such for myself. The path to upgrade for OEM, well large OEM, is not very great. They just cannot allow for much upgrading since their techs must go by a troubleshooting chart. No room for all the possibilities.

Back when I had a tech support role, it was for the motherboard. You cannot imagine the difficulty in getting a decent breakdown of parts in the case and plugged into our brand motherboard.

General email began with my flippety flippy board will not boot. Okay, then which model, what ram, what power supply, what O/S. Same thing we go thru in getting enough information to try to assist those that want to overclock. The very reason I try and get them to make a signature as soon as the forum itself will allow same.

By the way, thanks for the graphic of the video cards. That was nice man.

RGone...ster.

 

[Neuromancer]

I agree with your rgone. Actually teh reason fopr not supporting upgrading by teh large companies has nothing to do with support. It has to do with the dollars. They want people to buy a new computer not upgrade their existing one.

Support goes into that im sure, but basically..

My first package PC was bought at a staples had a celeron 700 MHz CPU and 800 series chipset, advertised AGP graphics, the pinout was there, there was no AGP slot.

I looked into upgrading it, max was 800 Mhz celeron and still stuck with no discrete GPU.

First and last time I ever bought a "package" pc. Been building my own ever since.

Big companies suck.

I do understand where you are coming from. I worked at smaller company that built handhelds over the last 30 years from controllers for CNC machines, to Windows based units. (the carlson explorer? Yup I built some of them don't go trying ot get my fingerprints now, its a chain lots of people worked on them)

I started in QC. And went up through everything up to assembly. My sister at 14 ran the oven. (Friends/former coworkers of my parents owned the company have you heard of the Carlson Explorer? I built some of them, tested more, and fixed some others )

I just helped out in busy periods.