Awesome new air cooler technology

[irrykuxeh]

Read this article and definitely watch the video: http://www.extremetech.com/computin...t-dust-immune-and-almost-ready-for-prime-time

The heatsink IS the fan! This definitely has some pro's and con's worth considering...

Its quiet, small, really efficient, dust-resistant, and it looks sweet! (I wonder if it could me stained or painted or have built in LEDs...)

But, with metal blades, it seems a lot more dangerous than a fan. It would also be spewing hot air in every direction inside the case making it hell to direct a steady airflow.

What do you think?

 

[KurtBlanken]

This article was made in July, we likely won't see a real product come out of this for quite some time.

The idea is certainly neat, but I wished that they had explained the transfer of heat from the CPU to the fins more fully. It also seems that it would not deal very well with jostling or being put on a non-flat surface.

 

[irrykuxeh]

There is an interview with the inventor of the product here: http://www.extremetech.com/computin...tsink-your-questions-answered-by-the-inventor

I was just reading through it, and it answered a lot of my questions.

 

[Seebs]

Saw this mentioned a while ago at another site, or maybe it was here... Not sure.

Seems like a very cool idea, but the one thing that stuck out to me was:

It is a cast metal impeller that floats on a hydrodynamic air bearing just a thousandth of an inch (0.03 millimeters) above a metal heat pipe spreader, powered by a brushless motor in the middle.

What I get from that is that there is no mechanical connection between the heatplate and the actual impeller... So how would they implement that for computers where the motherboard is vertical and the cooler would be on its side? Wouldn't the thing just fly off?

 

[irrykuxeh]

Q: Does the air bearing heat exchanger only work in a horizontal orientation? Or are other angles possible?

JK: As discussed in the white paper, a downward restoring force many times that of the gravitational force acting on the mass of the heat-sink-impeller is generated by attractive interaction of the permanent magnet rotor and the high magnetic permeability stator. For this reason the device can operate in any orientation and the air gap varies little as a function of orientation angle.

From the interview^^
I was wondering the same thing

 

[Seebs]

JK: As discussed in the white paper, a downward restoring force many times that of the gravitational force acting on the mass of the heat-sink-impeller is generated by attractive interaction of the permanent magnet rotor and the high magnetic permeability stator. For this reason the device can operate in any orientation and the air gap varies little as a function of orientation angle.

From the interview^^
I was wondering the same thing

OK... So still no mechanical connection between impeller and plate. Ummm. Thanks, but no thanks. Going with the "hope for the best, but prepare for the worst" philosophy... I would not want a "free spinning" chunk of metal going 2000 rpm just a few cm over my $600 GPU. Even if we ignore the short circuit possibilities; the kinetic force that thing would have if it came lose would be enough to just shred any HW around it to pieces. That whole "the highly magnetic permeability stator" part is the thing that worries me... I'm not an expert in materials, but I think that puts Alu right out of the question... And the metals that are highly permeable to magnetism are usually quite heavy.

Now; don't get me wrong... I'd love to see something like this succeed, but as far as I am concerned... I'd rather use a classic design heatsink and strap a monster fan to it.

 

[KurtBlanken]

Seebs, the very first question from the interview mentions putting a protective cage around the device. Also, the impeller is stated as being made from aluminum.

 

[Conumdrum]

When I see it for sale and results come in. We seen it here in posts at least once already this last year.

Been around for a while on the 'Internets'. Nothing new. I hope it has 'Unobtainiun' in it, that would be cool.

 

[Seebs]

Seebs, the very first question from the interview mentions putting a protective cage around the device. Also, the impeller is stated as being made from aluminum.

I did read the cages part... It still doesn't compute in my head though... They say the impeller will be made of a metal highly permeable to magnetism. Aluminum is not highly permeable to magnetism; so how are they getting this done?

And for a bit of "worst case scenario"...
Let's say they do get a working unit with protective cage and all.
Let's say the impeller is about one pound in mass (A Thermalright Venomous X is 755gm or about 1.7 lbs).

I haven't done any physics since HS (over 20 years ago), but I think if an object with mass of 1lb, spinning at 2000 rpm were to come lose... No cage would be able to keep it from just shredding the cage - and itself - to pieces.

I know I sound like a "nay sayer" here, but stuff like this.. Just seems to add another "failure point" to a system that already has enough of them. The way I look at it; if the fan on my heatsink fails... Worst thing that happens is that temperatures rise and the CPU reaches the temperature that triggers a "self shutdown".

Whereas; if this new model happens to fail at the magnetic lock between heatplate and impeller (Murphy's law says that if something can go wrong; it will eventually go wrong); it won't just be a temperature shutdown; it will be pieces of metal raining down on every component inside your case.

 

[irrykuxeh]

It's worth noting that the impeller blades are facing the opposite direction of the way it spins. He even said in the video that you can touch it, and it feels like running your hand across a picket fence (just really fast). The only risk I see is a 1 pound piece of aluminum falling on top of your graphics card which is a "risk" that every CPU air cooler carries. This, of course, is solved by having a cage.

 

[ssjwizard]

This article has popped up every 6-9 months for almost 2 years already. The guy is pushing the idea and no one is picking it up. There are reasons for it. Regardless of the lab controlled test data, the cost and manufacturing complexity is simply to high to push to the consumer. Nice idea but its unlikely that it will ever reach market.

 

[dtrunk]

i call BS on 9000 fronts...

"The prototype (shown above and in the video below) is 10 times smaller than a commercial state-of-the-art cooler, but has the same cooling performance."

^ yea, which?

"The dust immunity derives from two facets of the Sandia Cooler’s design: a) Because they’re constantly moving at 2000+ RPM, it’s almost impossible for dust to settle on the heatsink’s blades, and b) Centrifugal force drives out any dust from the tiny air gap between the heatsink and heat spreader."

BS. that's like saying a fan blade that spins at 2000rpm will never accumulate dust... BS.

"Koplow has estimated that if every conventional heatsink in the US was replaced with a Sandia Cooler, the country would use 7% less electricity."

^lmfao... sure.

"In computers, a Sandia Cooler would mean that we could finally cross the 4GHz/150W TDP thermal wall — or build computers that are thinner and quieter."

^WTF. i'm pushing 4.4ghz @ only 58w...

I call PURE and SIMPLE marketing BULL$&#^. Plus i'd rather lose a fan blade at 2k rpm instead of having that whole thing destroying everything in my case. PLUS, once some dust does build up on the INNER area of the heatsink its heat dissipation ability will drop to ZERO; as the air is sucked into the middle it will for sure build up dust right there.

 

[Conumdrum]

Why don't we just wait till it shows up and not get our pants in a wad.

Old news, leave it at that.

 

[Seebs]

It's worth noting that the impeller blades are facing the opposite direction of the way it spins. He even said in the video that you can touch it, and it feels like running your hand across a picket fence (just really fast). The only risk I see is a 1 pound piece of aluminum falling on top of your graphics card which is a "risk" that every CPU air cooler carries. This, of course, is solved by having a cage.

The orientation of the blades is immaterial if/when the thing comes lose... One of them edges catches on the cage and it's metals shavings shower time.

That's the thing that makes this a "nice idea but" in my mind.

Why don't we just wait till it shows up and not get our pants in a wad.

Old news, leave it at that.

Agreed. If/When such cooler comes to market... We'll see what happens. This one is kind of like the one by the Australian company that claim to have come up with a way to do unlimited detail 3D rendering with little to no cost in the GPU department. I forget the name, but they do pop up every once in a while with a "new" update. It never is the "ready for market" solution though; always seems to be the "we're just one step away from getting there".

 

[Jonathan924]

You know, there are quite a few technical images of this cooler on the internet. Does anyone think it would be possible to manufacture this thing ourselves based on images already posted so we can test it ourselves?

That is, barring any copyright/patent/trademark red tape or issues to work around.

 

[Conumdrum]

Sure. Let us know when you got a prototype after a few $1000K of research and purchasing of equipment and having material science engineers and mechanical engineers to build it.

Your kidding right? You know how much this level of enginnering costs?

This concept was first posted last year. If they ain't made it to market by now imagine how hard it is..................

Hate to burst your bubble, but the discussion of this has been around a long time on many forums.

 

[Jonathan924]

Why would I spend any money on research and engineering when they have already done it for me. What I meant was more along the lines of creating a 3d model based off pictures they've already posted, and from there machining our own. Not redoing all the R&D that they already put into it

 

[Conumdrum]

Okay. You can call them to get the tech at 1-800-.........

3d models are like looking at the North Korean Launch Site from a satellite to see the hat size of the guy with a stick in his hand.. What bearings? What tolerances? When your at 0.0002" tolerances, WAYYY less than a human hair.

You an engineer? Of some Masters or Graduate degree? Then you understand the mastery of the tech.

Ohh welcome to the forums. Science matters.

 

[bluezero5]

This article been around for a while.

I personally think it is lacking in some areas, and probably not the best PC cooling solution. It might have applications in Fridges and other devices that requires a heatsink, but the design of it will likely never work well in a PC, where most of the time you are vertically mounted, not horizontally.

we will see. I am open minded.
for now I am betting against this as a breakthrough though, so I won't be investing in it yet.

 

[WhitehawkEQ]

Q: Does the air bearing heat exchanger only work in a horizontal orientation? Or are other angles possible?

JK: As discussed in the white paper, a downward restoring force many times that of the gravitational force acting on the mass of the heat-sink-impeller is generated by attractive interaction of the permanent magnet rotor and the high magnetic permeability stator. For this reason the device can operate in any orientation and the air gap varies little as a function of orientation angle.

Sounds a lot like the Turbo Encabulator

From the interview^^
I was wondering the same thing