SOLVED Basic PC build office/media

[Ivy]

Version A:

MB: Asus AM1I-A SKT AM1 (AM1) 43 CHF (Vendor: http://www.topd.ch/de/001001692)
　
CPU/GPU: AMD ATHLON 5350 2.05 GHZ. (AM1-Jaguar) 67 CHF (Vendor: http://www.topd.ch/de/001003899)
　
RAM: Kingston HyperX FURY DDR3 4GB 1866MHz Red Series 51 CHF (Vendor: http://www.topd.ch/de/000999429)
　
Case: Fractal Design Node 304 (25x21x37) 80 CHF (Vendor: http://www.topd.ch/de/000725024?campaign=Toppreise)
　
PSU: Be Quiet! System Power 7 400W 80+ 58 CHF (Vendor: http://www.brack.ch/netzteil-be-qui...=230110&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=toppreise)
　
Drive: Crucial m500 240GB 111 CHF (i dont really need above 250 GB because its not a raw HTPC, more of a allround browsing/media. Excessive vids amount would be streamed over a central NAS, the cheapest HDD is still almost half of that price so i go for higher performance). (Vendor: http://www.brack.ch/crucial-m500-ssd-240gb-256715)


Version B: (well, more powerful than Acer Aspire Revo RL80, almost same price range, size isnt much bigger, TDP isnt much bigger too*).
*SSD makes up for some TDP, it only takes around 1W in average, the 2.5" HDD of the Acer Aspire will need at least 5 W more than that. But in the TDP<50W range it doesnt truly matter anymore as long as there is no accu involved.


MB: Asus AM1I-A SKT AM1 (AM1) 43 CHF (Vendor: http://www.topd.ch/de/001001692)
　
CPU/GPU: AMD ATHLON 5350 2.05 GHZ. (AM1-Jaguar) 67 CHF (Vendor: http://www.topd.ch/de/001003899)
　
RAM: Kingston HyperX FURY DDR3 4GB 1866MHz Red Series 51 CHF (Vendor: http://www.topd.ch/de/000999429)
　
Case: Thermaltake Element Qui 220W 74 CHF (Vendor: http://www.topd.ch/de/000982857)
　
PSU: Included (Element Qui)
　
Drive: Crucial m500 240GB 111 CHF (i dont really need above 250 GB because its not a raw HTPC, more of a allround browsing/media. Excessive vids amount would be streamed over a central NAS, the cheapest HDD is still almost half of that price so i go for higher performance). (Vendor: http://www.brack.ch/crucial-m500-ssd-240gb-256715)


OS: Microsoft Windows 8.1 64, D 84 CHF　(Vendor: http://www.steg-electronics.ch/de/article/microsoft-windows-81-64-d-895384.aspx) Not that sure about that one but it is around 20% of total cost, isnt that spicy anymore to use a WIN OS, mainly for compatibility reason.


　
　
(Backup: Western Digital Blue Mobile LP 500GB 60 CHF, external optical drive is already available for Installation, same for Monitor/KB)


　
Version A: ~494 CHF (CHF to $ convertion is around 1:1 when taxes included, so its almost same to me)
Version B: ~430 CHF



Required capability:

--->1080P Video decoding
--->Browsing
--->High stability and hardware endurance (will be used for over 5 years).
--->SFF form factor required, Mini-ITX board
--->USB 3.0 port, any port slower than that is a nuisance for any external data transfer above 50 GB (over 20 min already @2.0) so its a requirement to me.


Useful hints very welcome, prehaps better parts available and/or at lower cost?


Originally i had in mind to buy a Laptop but i think the 1080P standart and good USB 3.0 ports is the future and can be useful for good quality and quick backup. However, a laptop having that sort of capability is more pricy than this build listed above, so its not very wise going even smaller. Especially because i dont plan to move the system around. The system will be stationary at home, so i can easely use a basic SFF build for even better results.


Of course there is other solutions possible such as "Acer Aspire Revo RL80" but the only advantage is the even smaller form factor, all other stats are inferior and the total price is still 400 CHF, not that cheap at all. A system which is far less powerful in absolutly any spec and no custom possible (no upgrade too).

 

[Theocnoob]

With these kinds of ultra-low-end systems I always wonder if it wouldn't be cheaper to obtain some late-generation socket 775 parts. JM2C.

 

[Ivy]

I dont see a way to obtain them except i go for auctions, but to be honest i dont like used PC systems from random people. The only *used* thing i enjoy is a used tea pot. To be stick on topic: Of course, a used system from a known PC expert/enthusiast is different to me but they rarely got such "ultra late generation parts".


Anyway, the newer parts surely are very economical, but i think that the price is a bit high at that level of "performance". Parts such as the case wont change at all and even the cheapest case is still around 90 CHF at least... thats the weak spot and the PSU is not much cheaper at all too because 50 CHF is almost the "magical lowest spot", it simply cant go lower than that (in term the PSU isnt crap).


Thats somewhat the challenge, and of course even drives cant truly be cheaper than 50 CHF, but for twice the price there is already a good SSD available. Its somewhat a challenge to me to pick good parts in the lowest price range. On top of that, going small doesnt mean going cheaper... it seems to be a usual mentality that everything small is considered a expensive feature. But i find it important not to have stuff at the size of several shoeboxes just for easy computing tasks that can be performed at a fraction of that size, that just makes no sense and is bothering.

 

[Theocnoob]

I definitely didn't mean to obtain parts from random people. I was thinking more of going into the classifieds on OCF and getting 775 stuff there. Of course, if you go that route, there's no SATA 6... so that's a big downer. Unbeatably cheap though, at this point.

I guess we'll have to wait for somebody who knows more about these low end parts (I don't know a lot about AMD APUs) to come and comment in this thread.

 

[ATMINSIDE]

APUs are faster than C2D for sure.

Ivy, for your usage as an office/media computer the APU is the best choice.

 

[Theocnoob]

APUs are faster than C2D for sure.

They looked about equal to me in your link. What makes you say the APU is faster?

I agree going with the APU is a wiser decision for the SATA 3 6gbps support but other than that, it's sort of sad that a 2013/14 chip has barely more oomph than a 2007/8 chip. Granted, one was mid-high end and the other is rock bottom low end... but still. 7 years apart. Come on... Sad.

 

[Bobnova]

Have you thought about the new AM1 chips? They might be perfect for this. Or might not of course, but they're certainly cheap, and ought to do 1080p fine.

 

[ATMINSIDE]

They looked about equal to me in your link. What makes you say the APU is faster?

I agree going with the APU is a wiser decision for the SATA 3 6gbps support but other than that, it's sort of sad that a 2013/14 chip has barely more oomph than a 2007/8 chip. Granted, one was mid-high end and the other is rock bottom low end... but still. 7 years apart. Come on... Sad.

Make sure to read "higher is better" and "lower is better"
The APU is typically 20%+ faster than the C2D, with many being in the 50% range.
Its also going to be lower power than a C2D and have an integrated GPU.

Don't forget about DDR3, USB3.0, and availability of replacement parts.

 

[Ivy]

The AM1 surely is interesting but what matters most to me is if i can effectively drop the overall price using a AM1 chip and if i can still keep my SFF size, so that means i need to have a Mini-ITX. Overall the AM1 CPU itself is barely better than a C2D but that doesnt matter, it got a GPU included and is very low TDP (so the system can be fanless or very low noise), thats the big advantage.


I will have to figure out about the parts available to me from AM1 spec. Well that board looks interesting: http://www.asrock.com/mb/AMD/AM1H-ITX/
Problem is, at current time i have no clue how to get that board... its not available in my country.


Ok, that one seems available to me: http://www.asus.com/Motherboards/AM1IA/
It may lack the juicy extra features of the Asrock board but on the other hand its cheaper and i dont truly need the extra features on that PC.


EDIT: Its updated now, using a AM1 i was able to drop the price by 40 CHF, and the original performance seems around the same (because it got 4 cores instead of 2). Surely more improvements possible... keep it going. Surely, improvements in the form of "lower price but doesnt hit the performance like a truck". Price of case (Fractal Design) was able to be droped using another vendor, so another price cut to me.


Regarding RAM: The issue simply is, 50 CHF is kinda the magical spot and every single cent above that line is a huge upgrade... it just makes no sense to get a 1600 MHz CL 11 kit for 50 CHF in term there is another kit at 1866 MHZ CL10 at the price of 51 CHF, so its indeed hard choice, there is much RAM competition. Some people think "its an overkill", yes it is but the problem is, RAM performance is almost for free. RAM can always be clocked down, its just the specified max capability and of course more clock means higher quality (if kit cant handle it its lower quality). Have to take into account: AM1 is only supporting single channel memory, so a good performing single channel memory can make some difference because its already rather slow.


Regarding the PSU: What i truly need is a PSU able to perform at the very best level in the very low Watt range because that system is very low power (comparable to a Laptop) and i think typical power load will never exceed 50 W (processor is 25 W TDP, and the SSD/MB is not more than another 25 W). So i will have to find out what PSU performs best at the very low power level.


Regarding CPU: AM1 is a low power CPU so it cant be compared to high power 1:1, however, when compared to a 3570K (mainstream gamer CPU) it would be around 30-40% of that raw CPU performance and thats totaly sufficient for a browsing/media CPU, anything above that level is simply overkill. The biggest advantage is the very high level of features (DDR3, SATA6, USB3.0, support for all sort of decoding) the AM1 is able to provide, it got great utility so i think its best choice.


Conclusion: I think PC is sorted out but PSU is still uncertain, (need of a PSU with good low power support). Another question is if i should just use a http://www.topd.ch/de/000982857 http://www.thermaltake.com/products-model_gallery.aspx?id=C_00002121
Thermaltake Element Qui, it would easely be able to supply my low power parts and there is almost no heat. So i probably dont even need a system fan apart from the included CPU fan. The price would be cutted down by 64 CHF, resulting into a total price of 430 CHF. Because using PC parts with lesser than 50 W TDP can easely deal with a Element Qui. Although im not sure about the general quality of the integrated PSU, although the E-350 is about comparable in TDP and checking out that review the PSU got a good efficiency in very low power mode of 50 W. http://techreport.com/review/21515/thermaltake-element-q-mini-itx-enclosure/4
Sure the E-350 may be about 7 W TDP lower vs. 5350 but the SSD will probably save up at least 5 W compared to the Caviar green (review specs) so ultimately there is no changes in heat output.

 

[Bobnova]

Might consider one of these for case/psu. It's a good unit and has a PSU built in that is decently efficient PSU at low loads: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811129185
My review of it: http://www.funkykit.com/reviews/chassis-systems/antec-isk110-vesa-itx-case-review

No optical drive space though, and it may cost more. I can't find it on topd.ch for whatever that's worth.

 

[Mandrake4565]

Ivy I haven't had any experience with the Am1s you listed but I did recently build an A10-7850k FM2 setup for my dad. I have to say it's a pretty darn good setup for the money. I did some testing on it and the Graphics performance was equivalent to my NVidia 450 gts gpu. One thing I did see is the speed of your ram greatly influences the Gpu performance. Point is for the money the Apu's are pretty good buys.

 

[Ivy]

I dont need optical drive because got a external install-drive for all of my PCs. In future only my HTPC will have a optical drive. My beta computer series will be optical-driveless, except HTPC.


But would be nice having a USB 3.0 port support near the front of the case.


Regarding A-10-7850 i just think its bit overkill for my needs of that current build.

 

[Mandrake4565]

Regarding A-10-7850 i just think its bit overkill for my needs of that current build.

Agreed, sorry if I got lost a bit on my point. I was just trying to say I think the Apu's in general are a pretty good value for general computing.

 

[Ivy]

I think i buy my spec B build, it seems to be best choice and very affordable too, at the same time maintaining some very good stats.


Btw: Indeed the APUs are becoming more and more useful nowadays. Many years ago it was more of a alpha and beta phase for a new integrated GPU solution, so there is no extra GPU needed, but those solutions was still immature and rather weak. Nowadays those IGP or "fusion" (also known as APU) solutions are increasing in power at such a huge margin (thanks to the dogfight Intel and AMDs is doing) that they can easely handle as good as any low and even average computing tasks without the use of a dedicated GPU. The only tasks still in need of a dedicated GPU are those who are in need of excessive computing performane. For example: gaming, certain development programs, video making programs and programs used for science and of course crypto-currency but apart from that not that much more anymore. Nowadays IGP/Fusion processors can even handle 4K media playback and almost anything a "standart user without gaming needs" could ask for. At the same time the computers are becoming smaller and smaller because the gape between the biggest and smallest systems is increasing thanks to many new options previously mostly unavailable to the desktop user. SFF is now a real name and not just a "swearword" even in the US (a country with rather low tolerance for small stuff). So yes the time is changing... we kinda have a new era of computing. Of course, the currently most powerful APU is the one the PS4 is using, and that one is comparable to the performance of a dedicated 7850 GPU, so those APUs surely have reached a spot we never imagined it would happen so soon before... but its a clear proof that there is lot of open potential.


However, the Kabini APU architecure, using true GCN shader cores, is the first APU that is truly powerful and able to handle almost any task up to the midrange level of computing needs, so i think its a great time in order to get a new APU based system. Of course, cant cant compare a low power processor such as the Jaguar to a high power processor, but even the Jaguar is handling most of the "average mainstream tasks" such as browsing and HD media surprisingly good. Actually its the first APU-only based system i ever build because finally they are able to satisfy my needs.