Building a new system. Advice?

[Arch]

Hi all,

It's been quite a while since I did an upgrade on my computer. Up until this point, I've been able to run all the games I wanted to play at the max-resolution with max graphic options. Unfortunately, that's no longer the case. Games like Civ4, BFME2, Need for Speed Most Wanted, and now Oblivion are running at less than the max settings and less than the max resolution. Now, normally this wouldn't both me, but with my 2005FPW, I prefer to run games at 1680x1050. I can't do this now.

At the moment I'm running the following:
Abit AI7
Intel Northwood P4 2.4c @ 3.2
1 gig Crucial Ballistix (2x512)
eVGA 6800GT AGP
Soundblaster Audigy2 ZS
WD 74gig Raptor
PC Power and Cooling Turbo Cool 425 ATX PSU

I've spec'ed out the following at Newegg:
EPoX EP-9NPA+Ultra
AMD Athlon 64 X2 4400+ Toledo
2gig Corsair XMS (2x1gig) 2-3-3-6
BFG 7900GT OC PCIe
Soundblaster Audigy2 ZS (carry over from old PC)
WD 150gig Raptor
Antec TruePower II 480 ATX PSU
Antec P180 ATX case
Total for all ofthis is $1600.63 (that includes shipping).

I'll be moving over my optical drives, so no need to include those. I have a couple of questions since I've been out of the loop for two years now.

1. Is the Athlon 64 X2 still the best chip out there for gaming? Is the Toledo core the one to go with?

2. Is there another motherboard I should consider? I had good luck with my Epox 8RDA+ back in the day.

3. I'm trying to build a PC that is as quiet as possible. I read good things about the P180 from Antec. Anything else I should consider?

4. Is there something that isn't on my list that I should consider adding?

Any other tips would be greatly appreciated.

 

[Soichiro]

1. Go with the Opteron 165 if you're willing to overclock a little. It has the same 1MB cache as the Toledo A64's but is cheaper and can usually overclock a few hundred mhz higher.

2. That Epox board you picked is a pretty good mid-range oc'ing board.

3. I love my P180, it's dead silent on idle and still fairly quiet on full load (CPU fan turned up). Only bad thing is that it weighs 35 pounds... empty. Definitely not a LAN party case.

4. I'd go with a bigger PSU (esp. if you're going to overclock) like the Antec TPII 550W or OCZ PowerStream 520W. Also, this part is just personal preference, but I prefer eVGA and OCZ over BFG and Corsair. As for BFG, their "overclocked" cards are just a marketing ploy and I could easily get my eVGA (cheaper) card overclocked higher, and I really like their step-up plan too, so you could maybe upgrade to a 7900GTX if you got more money within 3 months or something. As for Corsair, their RAM is a bit overpriced IMO, and I've dealt with their RMA service once before and to put it simply it was horrible (although I may have just gotten unlucky), but I have heard some very good things about OCZ's lifetime warranty on their RAM. Just as long as you don't put some ridiculous 3.8v or w/e into your RAM, they'll give you a replacement set in case it dies or won't run stock speeds. I've even heard of people who had their OCZ RAM die, and had a more expensive set shipped to them in exchange. That's really good support.

 

[Arch]

Thanks for the reply.

I'm not an extreme overclocker. In the past I've noticed that I've skimped on the CPU with plans to overclock it, only to spend money down the road on a larger heatsink or other items to accomplish said overclocking. Instead I could have been spent that money on a CPU with a faster base clock speed and less of and overclock.

I'm looking at these two chips side by side, this is what I see:
Operton 165 - 1.8ghz, $325
Athlon 64 X2 4400 - 2.2ghz, $460

What's the functional difference between the Operton and the X2? Is there any? How do I know what motherboards support it?

I'm not married to the Corsair brand. Right now there's a $40 rebate on that memory making a 2gig kit $155, which I thought was a pretty good deal.

I'm also not married to BFG. At the moment, that's one of the only brands in stock for the 7900GT.

 

[wa77ss]

Heres the comparisons -
Opteron 165 - 1.8GHz
Opteron 170 : A64 X2 3800 - 2.0GHz
Opteron 175 : A64 X2 4400 / 4200 Lower Cache - 2.2GHz
Opteron 180 : A64 X2 4800 / 4600 Lower Cache - 2.4GHz
A64 FX60 - 2.6GHz

The difference between the Opteron's and the A64's is that all the Opteron chips have 1MB of L2 cache which results in a higher OC. Where only some of the A64's have the 1MB of L2 cache. Since your not an extreme overclocker the X2's would suite you better since they are cheaper than the Opterons.


If you buy a BFG you are buying it for its warranty, not for its factory OC. Unless you want a long warranty, get a eVGA or something.


And for RAM, I would get some OCZ. You can find a good deal on them as well, and they are just all around better sticks than the Corsair IMO.


Good luck !!!

 

[Soichiro]

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16820227210

2x1GB OCZ Plats. Also $40 rebate, overall about $1 less than Corsair, but better timings.

 

[Arch]

Thanks for all the suggestions. At this point I think I'm going to stick with the Athlon X2 4400. I went ahead and bumped up the PSU to the Antec 550. Turns out it was only an extra $9. I also changed the motherboard for the 9NPA+Ultra to the 9NPA+SLI. I figure this way I have some expansion capability built in. I can add an extra 7900GT down the road to extend the life of things a bit. I'm going to stick with the Corsair memory. Its only $.01 more expensive.

Any other suggestions? Tips? Etc?

 

[Soichiro]

I would still suggest the OCZ for the warranty and tighter timings. I mean, come on, it's a choice between 2-3-3-6 (Corsair) and 2-3-2-5 plus unlimited lifetime warranty (OCZ).

 

[Arch]

The Corsair memory carries the same warranty. The slightly faster timings don't really interest me. I did not read good things about OCZ and their ability to process rebates, something that I hate.

 

[Arch]

Is there a good up-to-date AMD overclocking guide? What is the 1T / 2T timing I keep reading about. Seems to do with memory although I'm not sure how it related. Also, what's HTT? Is it equal to something I would be familar with on my Intel board?

 

[wa77ss]

Do yourself a favor and get the OCZ. I dunno about Intel but the timings on A64 platforms do matter quite a bit.

Heres a guide to overclocking the A64 platform - http://www.ocforums.com/showthread.php?t=391768

 

[rseven]

I don't think the timings matter much on an A64, but I agree that I'd rather have the OCZ. The GSkill is another good choice. Both OCZ and Mushkin have reps her at the OCF, which is nice should you have a problem. Also, I would go for an Opti 170 over the 4400 X2. The 200MHz difference in clocks can easily be made up in a modest OC and it can be hhad for about $400.

 

[Soichiro]

Just to clarify something real quick

The difference between the Opteron's and the A64's is that all the Opteron chips have 1MB of L2 cache which results in a higher OC. Where only some of the A64's have the 1MB of L2 cache.

The cache does not improve overclockability. The Opterons really overclock better because they are binned better and tested better to be able to run at a lower stock voltage (since they are designed to be server chips).

The extra cache is never a bad thing though. Although it doesn't help for overclocking, it does improve overall system performance.

And yes, as everyone else is saying, you should go for the OCZ

 

[rseven]

This is a bit off topic, but a couple of years ago,before the A64's, I was building an XP2500 rig for a friend. I had an XP2400, which ran 2000MHz stock next to the 2500's 1833MHz. The 2500 was the newer Barton core with twice the L2 cache(512mb). Well, I did a little experiment with running Seti@home files. I was using it to burn in his CPU. Well, his system thoroughly out performed mine despite the mine having the extra clock speed. I was so impressed that the next week I ordered a 2500XP for myself. So, extra cash....uh...cache comes in handy.

 

[Arch]

Ok, I changed the memory to the OCZ memory. I still think I'm going to stick with the Athlon X2 4400. It has the same amount of cache as the Opteron's. The Opteron 170 is $65 less than the Athlon X2 4400 but is 200mhz slower. This time through, I think I'm just going to buy the faster CPU and do a more modest overclock instead of a slower cpu and more extreme overclock.

 

[towcutter]

After reading these posts, It raised some questions as to why to use the opteron 170, instead of the 4400. With the proper cooling, will the 170 outperform the 440. I was planning to use a thermalright XP-120 and an asus a8n32-sli deluxe board. I also planned on ocz pc-4000 2x1024 platinum xtc memory. What kind of overclock can i expect?

 

[FlakMonkey]

MOBO
CPU
GPU
HDD
RAM
PSU
DVD/RW

Someone wanted me too put them together a system recently and here is what I came up with, its quite a nice rig. One thing I wuold change is the BFG gpu to an eVGA, and throw in that P180.

 

[towcutter]

Thanks for the sugestions. I did want an sli board. I was going to use the 2 rapters on my current system, along with the sound card. Will that memory have enough head room to overclock the opteron, I thought I would need at least DDR500 at the fsb speeds required. What's a P180?

 

[ffzen]

Let's say you o/c the 170 from 200x10= 2.0ghz to 250x10 multi= 2.5ghz
You'll have to use a divider like 166 or 5/6 or 9/11 if you use ddr400 so your ram runs at ~208mhz

or
you can get something like this ddr500
so you can run your ram 1:1 and not use a divider.

 

[Arch]

I changed my mind regarding the Antec P180 case. With the powersupply at the bottom I would have to drag the ATX connector up and over the video cards to connect it. Not good. I'm going to get the Cooler Master Praetorian PAC-T01-E1 instead.

 

[Arch]

So, I'm stuck again. These are my two choices. I don't know which one to choose. What do y'all think?

Abit KN8 Ultra moterboard
AMD Athlon 64 X2 4400+ Toledo
2gig OCZ PC3200 (2 x 1gig) 2-3-2-5 timings
Sapphire ATI X1900XTX PCIe
Soundblaster Audigy2 ZS (carry over from old PC)
WD 150gig Raptor
Antec TruePower II 550 ATX PSU
Cooler Master Praetorian PAC-T01-E1
Total price for this system is, with shipping $1754.

Or

Abit KN8 SLI moterboard
AMD Athlon 64 X2 4400+ Toledo
2gig OCZ PC3200 (2 x 1gig) 2-3-2-5 timings
2 x BFG 7900GT OC PCIe in SLI
Soundblaster Audigy2 ZS (carry over from old PC)
WD 150gig Raptor
Antec TruePower II 550 ATX PSU
Cooler Master Praetorian PAC-T01-E1
Total price for this system is, with shipping $1950.

Now, the ATI system would be a little slower, but it costs $200 less. The X1900XTX is noisy, but is it noiser than a pair of 7900GTs?