-Chiller Project-

[sandman001]

Yes, but it also says?

"or are have a compressor that can withstand approximately 350psi, it's a pleasure to work with. "

"Though this can be used in a system of its own, you will need pressures nearing the 450 mark on a warm day to liquify"

 

[Pf.Farnsworth]

yep, indeed it is so

whats a good site to shop for compressors, the type that we use I guess, refrigeration/ac compressors? I realize any would work but i guess since we are trying to keep the noise, power consumption and size down we are in a sertain class that revolves around window ac units, home refrigerators, etc. Any good online store recomendations?

 

[sandman001]

WEll, you cna get a pretty decent ones off of Ebay.

They're are sold as matsu****a refrigeration compressors. They are about 1/4HP, and require a relay and a start capacitor.

I use a supco solid state relay and a 455mfd start capacitor with them.

 

[{PMS}fishy]

-20 would be fine probbably. I am leaning again towards a chiller. Pondering what gas to use.

With out a license all you will be able to get is R290 and R134a.

R134a is very expensive, and is a rather poor choice.

I use R290 in all my systems, and I recently regassed a Mach1 w/ R290 and its running a 560 ES D0 at -30c idle, and about -5c loaded.

 

[Pf.Farnsworth]

my fiance's father is an HVAC engineer/contractor with a licence. I am hoping to use his knowledge/tools/purchasing power

I havent talked to him yet, been pretty busy lately. But I need to go chat with him, I am sure he would be of great help.

 

[{PMS}fishy]

my fiance's father is an HVAC engineer/contractor with a licence. I am hoping to use his knowledge/tools/purchasing power

I havent talked to him yet, been pretty busy lately. But I need to go chat with him, I am sure he would be of great help.

In that case, r404a/r507.

 

[Pf.Farnsworth]

I was thinking R170 (ethane) boiling point of -88C. It's a much more suitable stand-alone refrigerant than R50.

IF is doable on a 1/2hp 2/3hp compressor.

Also I have a question. I would think the answer is no but I want to ask anyway. Would 2 1/4hp compressors use the same amount of power as 1 1/2hp compressor. The way I see it no because the 1/2hp one would have different efficiency due to different part sizes even if the construction is the same. But if its pretty close that's good enough for a yes for me. I was contemplating making a 2 stage cascade with 2 1/4hp compressors rather then 1 stage with 1 1/2hp compressor because with 2 stages you can get quite a bit lower temperatures.

 

[sandman001]

No offense man, but I'd suggest reading a bit more, and looking at some P/T charts.

Ethane, doesn't work on a an ambient temp condensing type system.

Even R410 isn't good without a specific R410 compressor, sinply because of the high condensing pressure at 30 to 35C.

 

[Pf.Farnsworth]

thats why I said "thinking", implying a question for you guys.

thanks for the heads up. That what I wanted to know, I haqd a feeling the preasure needed to condence at room temp would be to great.

-what would be a substance with the lowest boiling point that would be reasonable to use in a single stage setup?

-I have been pondering chilelr vs dd lately. I have to cool 2 gpu's and 1 cpu, so making 3 loops with 3 compressors is not very good for the power bill and gets bulky. I was however considering having a single loop with 3 capillaries but I dont know how works out with the temperatures. Enlighten me if you can because that solution is starting to look better and better day by day. If you have a large capacity loop then there should be enough refrigerant for all 3 blocks right, so the temperatures shouldnt suffer like they would if you started adding blocks to a water cooling system right? Also on that note can one use TXV / TVX (not sure whats the right name) valve instead of capillaries when you have more then one capillary?

 

[{PMS}fishy]

-what would be a substance with the lowest boiling point that would be reasonable to use in a single stage setup?

In that case, r404a/r507.

 

[Pf.Farnsworth]

I see, thanks, I was pondering if there were anything with lower boiling point, outside of "cheap" and "safe" ranges ;P thankd for the tip though.

If if you have 3 capillaries and blocks and a large capacity loop then there should be enough refrigerant for all 3 blocks right, so the temperatures shouldnt suffer like they would if you started adding blocks to a water cooling system right? Also on that note can one use TXV / TVX (not sure whats the right name) valve instead of capillaries when you have more then one capillary?

 

[{PMS}fishy]

Instead of trying to build some crazy tripple evap phase change, why don't you start off easy with something like an r22/r290 based single evap for the CPU.

Its not as easy as you seem to think that it is.

My first phase change took well over 10 hours of fabrication, and close to 40 hours worth of research, planning, and development.

 

[Pf.Farnsworth]

I have been researching and developing this idea for a year now. Not 8 hours a day every day but a lot, a lot of classes aren't worth listening to yet you have hours and hours to kill lol. I wouldn't mind if it took 100 hours of fabrication, I have the means and the time and a decent amount of money to spend on this.

Trying something small first is the first reasonable thought, however my entire life I skipped the simple and tried for the hardest and it has always worked out. I have an obsessive personality, if I start doing something it always gets done and its never simple, I dint like simple. I am majoring in mechanical engineering so you can probably tell I live and breath this type of projects. Not claiming I know much but I am ridiculously obsessive and crazy to boot. I am actually talking with one of my friends companies supplier about working out a diamond heat spreader / bottom for the evap. No promisses, but I will try my best. If I fail it wont bother me, I will just try until I succeed. I hate easy things.

 

[{PMS}fishy]

I still think your best bet would be a single DD for the CPU, and maybe a dual evap for the video cards.

 

[Pf.Farnsworth]

heh, on another note one of these will do nicely for the distribution. Comes with a TEV also which is much much better solution then a capillary. Lowest temperatures and fast, cant go wrong with a TEV. As gary put it nicely

"Cap tube size is like the gear ratio in your transmission. You can size it for higher torque or higher speed. The cap tube is sized for faster pulldown or lower temperature. A TEV is like an automatic transmission. Best of both worlds"


http://www.sporlan.com/20-10.pdf

Top one, 3 way split, just what I need.

 

[{PMS}fishy]

Looks to be expensive, over complicated, and a big point of failure.

Ideas and theorys are all well and good, but I seriously recommend some hands on fabrication before you even consider a project of this complexicty.

I'm not doubting your ability, I just can't say that I have ever seen a set-up with three evaps.

Have you even begun to consider the heatload that you are dealing with and the size of the compressor that you are going to need?

 

[Pf.Farnsworth]

Looks to be expensive, over complicated, and a big point of failure.

What is expensive for some person is not for another, due to 1. abundance of money and / or 2. ends justifying the means.

Quite the oppisite actually, very simple very well made. TEV's are also known for reliability and preformance. That and I trust gary as well as you should too since he does this for a living and we all read his posts and know he isnt just blowing hot air.

Ideas and theorys are all well and good, but I seriously recommend some hands on fabrication before you even consider a project of this complexicty.

I have done more complicated things in my lifetime lol. Not ever failing takes the fun out of life, I want something I can have a chance to fail at.

I'm not doubting your ability, I just can't say that I have ever seen a set-up with three evaps.

I have seen quite a few on phasechange.com and other places. The biggest problem is tuning the capillaries, pain in the axx but well worth it. Bowban had a write up on his somewhere but I cant find it now.

Have you even begun to consider the heatload that you are dealing with and the size of the compressor that you are going to need?

yes and the size (hp) isnt the only thing to consider and not the most complicated one either. A compressor increases its capacity as the evaporating temperature rises, and decreases its capacity as the evaporating temperature drops. It has to be be able to compress the refrigerant enough so at room tremperature (I use the term room temerature assuming your condencer takes it to it, unlese you are cascading, or your conenser doesnt) it will condence, any stronger and it will speed up the prosses a bit but you hit a point very fast where adding horses doesnt increase the speed. Of coarce if you introduce more heat in to the system and dont Upgrade your condencer then compressing your refrigerant becomes harder and needing more power. But if everything is done right from the start things should be fine.