Considering a Water Cooling build

[Mr.Mod]

Hello, I am new here just signed up. I have come across this site many times while looking information up. So this time I figured I would join . So I followed this Notices tab here and clicked the first link so I hope this is in the right section.
Okay, As of now I have been sucked into wanting to build a new PC and go liquid cooled. I have NEVER done a setup like this. I have always just stayed on air riggs. It's time for me to evolve I guess but at the same time I am not trying to build a 10k PC lol.

So, as I am SURE most of you on here have heard and seen the same questions over and over and if so I do apologize but again I am a FULL noob when it comes to liquid cooling

So I know information is a big part so I hope I can give enough. First I will do a parts list. Then ask a few questions I will DO my best to keep them at a minimum

Parts List

Case - Corsair 800D Obsidian

Motherboard - MSI Z68A-GD65 (G3)

CPU - i5-2500K Sandy Bridge 3.3GHz ( will be OC to at least 4.5GHz )

RAM - Corsair CMZ4GX3M1A1600C9B Vengeance 4x 4Gigs = 16Gigs

GPU - EVGA GeForce GTX 580 FTW Hydro Copper 2 Video Card - 3GB, GDDR5

PSU - Corsair CMPSU 1200Watt ATX

RAD - XSPC RX360 Triple 120mm Radiator Rev 2.

REZ - FrozenQ PC Mods 250mm Liquid Fusion V Series "2nd Generation"

PUMP - Swiftech MCP655-B 12v Water Pump w/ 3/8" Conversion Kit

CPU Water Block - Koolance CPU-370 Liquid Cooling Extreme CPU Block

Tubing - 1/2" UV Blue DreamFlex Tubing

Fluid - I am still researching that one lol. Heard a lot of good and bad with certain fluids.

Screen - Not to sure yet but I am looking at a 28 inch 1920x1200

Fittings - This is where I get stumped I would like to use compression fittings. But I am lost as to the sizing and style I guess you could say. Looks wise I am going to go black but I am a little confused as to HOW some hook up to the GPU and so on. I have noticed some just push into place and that makes me a little nervous. Again, I am new to this so I may just be over thinking and missing a very simplistic answer on my own lol.

Fan Controller - Scythe Kaze Master Pro Ace

Fans - Scythe Gentle Typhoon AP-15's

So that's what I was going to try and work with so far. I was trying to keep it some what simple. Just 1 loop for my CPU and GPU. At first I was thinking of getting 2 of the GPU's I listed but some have said I would need another loop for JUST the GPU's. And, I have also read that with the right fans and with the RAD that I am going with I could pull it off with the 1 loop as long as I have the right pump for the head pressure.

Meaning, just in case I lost any one.

1 loop from PUMP > CPU > GPU > GPU > RAD > REZ > repeat.

For my first build I really do not want to try a second loop for 2 GPU's so I am thinking that ONE of those GPU's should handle some games well.

Example: Crysis 2, Metro 2033, MW3.

So I am thinking PUMP > CPU > GPU > RAD > REZ > repeat.

Now as for the order of cooling I am not to sure. I have read some say it doesn't matter the order, some say cool GPU's first because they generate the most heat then cool the CPU. (But from my understanding a GPU can handle more heat the the CPU so for me I am going with cooling the CPU first then the GPU.

I will also be doing sleeving on my PSU. I just do not know if I am going with MDPC or Para Cord. I have used the MDPC sleeving many times but I was thinking of trying out the Para Cord. I have seen some really nice jobs done with it.

A note on the CPU of my choice. I LOVE AMD, but at the same time I'm not sure if I should stay with that 965BE Phenom II x4 or if I should go with a 6 core. I know some say 6 cores do nothing for gaming really but it got me thinking. nVidia, using PhysX. Now I read that a lot of it still gets dumped on the CPU without using another card SLi mode or at least have a card for PhysX. If this is true then why not move to a 6 core CPU?. I am however not to sure how it effects even a 4 core but it was something I was thinking. I need to do a lot more reading on that.

 

[Horrerblade]

Before you jump into water cooling are you sure that you are going to use it to its full potential. I know it looks AMAZING ( lol i wish i had one) BUT getting a water cooling system and not benchmarking or pushing your gpu/cpu to the limit is like getting a Lamborghini but never going above 60 mph sure it looks cool but you just wasted alot of money when a low end sports car would do the same thing if you get what i am saying. But it dose look very nice so if you have a wad of cash that you don't want go for water cooling. Next if you are building a high end build PLEASE for the love of god go with intel a 2500k will serve you so much better and last you longer then its amd counter part. I am not a water cooling expert so some one else will have to help you there but i am pretty sure that this is a good coolant. For your monitor look for some thing with a 120 refresh rate and maybe try going to a dual monitor setup so that you can use that 580 to its full . You dont need 16 gb of ram but you might as well with ram being so cheap lol. Thats all i can tell you for now so hopefully another member can help you more

 

[I.M.O.G.]

Welcome to the forums. I moved your post from gen hardware, to the water cooling section - there are more people in this sections specializing in water cooling builds. I also renamed your thread title, so people would have a better idea what your thread is about.

Other than that, Horrerblade is right to advise you about if watercooling is right for you.

On the other hand, he's wrong to suggest $20 cooling fluid. That is a waste of money - most people suggest using distilled water with an anti-bacterial (kill coil or something similar).

As for specific components, others around here will chime in on those soon.

I don't know that your CPU cooler is a good choice by the way - I think there are more high performing CPU blocks. The order of your loop is good.

 

[manu2b]

First,

Second, using 2 580's with a PhenomII is a waste of money. They'll be bottlenecked by the cpu, even @4 GHz.
As HorrerBlade says, it seems that you want to build a high end rig, so go for either the 2500k, or better (if you do some heavy multitasking/rendering/encoding/photoshop), a 2600K.

Third, one 360 rad, even a high end one like the Black Ice, won't be able to dissipate the heat of your CPU oc'ed (160W)+ your 2 580's (2x250W). You need at least two of them, if you don't want 10000rpm/500CFM (exagerate, right?) fans.

Fourth, loop order doesn't have any impact as the water difference in the loop after reaching equilibrium is around 1/2°C.

Fifth, read the stickies!

 

[thebski]

I don't have time right now to go through the whole thing, but I'll give some information to get you started.

First, many people have a hard time believing this or understanding it, but trust everyone when they say that loop order literally does not matter, with one exception. You must go res -> pump. Outside of that, it does not matter. Here's an example I posted in a thread last night:

I think of it like heating up water in a pan that has a hot plate on the bottom but somehow has the sides of the pan actively cooled. In your loop, the cpu block acts as the bottom of the pan (heated by a hot plate), and your radiator acts as the sides that are cooled somehow.

Now imagine this set up with someone stirring the water. Is the water going to be hotter at the bottom and cooler at the top? No. It will be one unified temperature because someone is stirring. There is a certain amount of heat going into the pan via hotplate, and a certain amount being extracted via cooled sides, so eventually the water in the pan is going to reach an equilibrium temperature. The point being though, that the temperature is going to be the same in the bottom of the pan as the top of the pan because the water is being stirred.

It is exactly the same in your loop. Your loop is a body of water. You may not think of it as a body of water because it isn't a container of water like you'd generally think of a body of water, but it is still a body of water that is formed in an odd shape contained by your tubing, res, etc. As long as the pump is going and water is moving, the water is going to be mixed around in your res and other parts of your loop to where it will essentially be the same temperature at any point in the loop.

What does all this mean? You could put 4 GTX580's and an i7 3960X OC'ed to 5Ghz in order and then follow that with 4 huge radiators. You could also have a radiator between each component. You might think having a radiator in each component would cool better because each block is getting "cooled" water. Not so. The whole body of water is cooled. The whole body of water is also heated, but it's moving so that's where the equilibrium temperature comes in. It does not divide up into sections.

Also, water doesn't really spend enough time in a block to "heat up" enough to really see a difference. It's in and out and might heat up 1C, but it's the continual passing of water that is at an equilibrium temperature that cools it.

All that said, if your pump fails and water stops moving the water in that block will heat up in a heartbeat and you will have major heat issues. A water block doesn't act as a very good air cooler .

-----

On another note, go Intel. I know people have the AMD/Intel debate, but right now there's no comparison. Just go Intel and your problems will be solved.

I'll come back with more later when I have time.

 

[Horrerblade]

I would have said distilled wasted but he said fluid so i told him the best one (in my opinion). Also please correct me but the 580 will run most games on high or close to it on the market so you only need one but if i where you instead of going with the 580 i would go with the this card it out preforms the 6990 and the 580 if i am not mistaken SO you would get better performance out of this card. I would go with a 480 rad more surface area is more cooling.

 

[Mr.Mod]

Thank you all so far with your answers. Sooo I'm dumping the AMD as I did read more and more into a few things. See I am still kind of new to the gaming world on a PC but I am HOOKED!. From a few things I have read PLUS all of your insight so far I will be moving to at least an i5 2500K, just means finding another Mobo as well but what can I say....I'm hooked.

Hopefully some other will be able to help me with some Fittings questions I think that's all that's left lol.

Also, @thebski. I think that has been the BEST explanation to understanding the cooling aspects of build that I personally have read.[/B][/B]

 

[Horrerblade]

Or you could get 2 different 240's and put them in different places if a 480 wont fit but that case i have heard that even though it is a "watercooling" case but i have heard that it isn't that good for water cooling so go for another case that you want lol maybe like a haf X BUT i don't know much about water cooling so another member might be able to assist you in choosing a better case. (if i am not wrong)

 

[Horrerblade]

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811517017 this seems like a good case

 

[skycake]

A Corsair 800D can fit a 360 on the top and a 240 on the bottom. The new NZXT Switch 810 can fit a 360 or 420 up top and a 240 bottom.

 

[fall]

Fittings?

Mainly down to what you want to pay...

Compressions are expensive! I just replaced all my barbs with compressions along with angle fittings and spent over 250$ (there were a few other misc items but only like 40$ worth).

Barbs are cheap, very cheap. They do not look near as nice as Compression but they do their job well!


Size:

It will depend on the size tubing you get. With barbs you have more freedom and can use many types per size. With Compression however you have to get EXACT Size. So that means if you change your tube size you have to get all new fittings.

As far as what size to get. I personally like 1/2in ID (inner diameter) and 3/4in OD (outer Diameter) because I like the look of bigger tubing over smaller. Most i think use 3/8in ID and vary with OD. Size is based on what you like aesthetically, other than that there is really no difference in performance and that you do not want a tube with thinner a 1/8in wall (kinks easy lower than 1/8in).

hope that helped! Welcome!

 

[thebski]

If you are actively deciding on a case, the Corsair 800D is a good one that is popular, and I'd also recommend taking a look at the Xigmatek Elysium. Both cases can fit a large enough loop to cool a CPU and two graphics cards internally.

Have a look at my youtube channel to see how I set up my new build with an Elysium case. You can get a 420mm rad in the top and a 240 or even 360 in the front with virtually no modifications. You may have to line some screw holes up depending the 420mm radiator you get, but it's very minor.

For the CPU block I'd look at either the XSPC Raystorm, Swiftech Apogee HD, or the EK HF Supreme. Those are all good blocks, and it honestly may come down to appearance for you.

Check out Skinnee Labs and Martin's Liquid Lab for water cooling product reviews. I would mainly review your choice of CPU blocks and your choice of radiators. They're good places to go to find out how much heat a radiator can dissipate at a given fan speed for a given temperature delta. You may also want to look at this guys youtube channel . He's tested what seems like every fan available from dead stop to full speed so you can get an idea of what a fan may sound like. I'll say though that the fans sound a little louder on video than they will enclosed in the case because the camera is pretty close to the fan in his videos. These videos may help you determine that given fan speed based on what you think you can tolerate.

That brings up another point: a fan controller. May be wise to look into fan controllers, especially if you're looking at going the Black Ice GTX series route for your radiators. You're not going to want to listen to 2000 RPM fans while you're checking your email.

As far as fittings go it's a matter of budget and preference. There are two kinds: barbed and compression.

A compression fitting is really a fancy version of a barbed fitting that has an outer "nut" that screws down and tightens the tubing around the barb. A barbed fitting is simply a barb that you slide your tubing over that you'll need some kind of hose clamp to clamp the tubing to the barb.

That said, there are subsets of those kinds. You can find barbed and compression that have different angles built in. You can buy straight fittings and then buy angled adapters. You can also buy compression fittings that are either fixed or rotary. Rotary fittings means they can swivel to prevent tubing pressure trying to unscrew your fittings.

Price wise, it goes like this: barbed < compression < rotary compression < angled compression < rotary angled compression < adapters plus compression < adapters plus rotary compression. You can also get rotary adapters which are more expensive than fixed adapters.

Compression fittings look better to most people. Other people don't care. I personally didn't want to buy an expensive system and put a bunch of tacky looking hose clamps in it, so I went with high priced fittings. Beware though, it's not hard to spend 200 on fittings.

I will shoot a fitting video on my rig to show you the differences and put it up on youtube by the end of today.

 

[fall]

I suggest every one copy and paste TheBSki's posts from today into a text document and use them from now on for helping people!!!

Only with your permission of course

They are the best most insightful single posts i have read in a while! Im at work too much I cant take the time to type a great answer like that.

 

[Mr.Mod]

Thank you again everyone. So far I think I am going to change Mobo's and CPU's For a Mobo I am thinking of MSI Z68A-GD65 (G3) and for the CPU I was thinking of the i5-2500K Sandy Bridge 3.3GHz
@thebski again TYVM sir. I looked at your Vids of the Black Devil. Very nice, as for a fan controller I can't believe I forgot that lmao. I was looking into a Scythe Kaze Master Pro Ace. Not to sure about how to control the pump as well. I mean will a pump crank up and down on its own?

 

[thebski]

As for pump control, somebody that owns a 655 can tell you on that one for sure, but if I'm not mistaken there is a 5 speed setting switch.

The MCP35X also from Swiftech uses PWM to control the speed automatically. You just plug the PWM wire in where your CPU fan usually plugs in, and that allows you to set speed profiles through the bios or through the motherboard vendor software so the pump speed will vary based on loads or temps.

 

[thebski]

And feel free to copy and paste anything I say, as long as it's correct . I was a total noob not very many months ago, so I know the feeling. The good people here and on other forums helped me learn a ton and the hobby has been great to me. If I can give back to the hobby a fraction of what it's given me then I'm all in.

 

[m0r7if3r]

As for pump control, somebody that owns a 655 can tell you on that one for sure, but if I'm not mistaken there is a 5 speed setting switch.

The d5 has two variants: fixed and variable speed. The fixed speed runs at the equivalent of setting 4 (out of 5), the variable has settings from 1-5. Skinneelabs has details on all this and what each power level performs like, give it a look

And feel free to copy and paste anything I say, as long as it's correct . I was a total noob not very many months ago, so I know the feeling. The good people here and on other forums helped me learn a ton and the hobby has been great to me. If I can give back to the hobby a fraction of what it's given me then I'm all in.

You've come a long, long way. I'm impressed and I really hope you stick around and help people if you have the time

 

[Black C5 Z06]

Another case suggestion: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811119245&Tpk=cooler master storm trooper

It's on sale right now, and that's a CRAZY good deal.

 

[m0r7if3r]

Another case suggestion: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811119245&Tpk=cooler master storm trooper

It's on sale right now, and that's a CRAZY good deal.

Completely OT question: What does your avatar mean? It says bolt action hero, but the M16 that guy is carrying is not a bolt action weapon...am I just overthinking it?

 

[Black C5 Z06]

Completely OT question: What does your avatar mean? It says bolt action hero, but the M16 that guy is carrying is not a bolt action weapon...am I just overthinking it?

That is precisely why it's my avatar. Just to see who will catch it lol.