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cx-550b vs. fortron bluestorm

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Ok. I decided to do more reading. I found this article in spcr by burcakb.

Shall we try and put a more realistic and informed judgement into this argument?

The DFI boards are marketed as overclocking boards. They have the ability to go to EXTREME overclocks - provided with monster voltages & airflows.

Now, as this is SilentPCReview, while we may all wish for a little overclock, we don't usually want it to the point where noise becomes a serious issue.

The most important criteria these days when choosing a PSU is the 12V feed power, not the total wattage. The 3.3V + 5V rails are mostly around the same ballpark in modern PSUs so the differentiating factor is the power delivered on the 12V line.

A Winchester Athlon64 operates on 1.4V Vcore with a top cited TDP of 67W. That means the top power draw without overclocking will be 5.6A on the 12V rail. Let's overclock some. 25% clock increase at a cost of increasing core voltage to 1.8V. I think we can agree that this puts a kind of worst case scenario for heat & power. Since power draw is related to the SQUARE of core voltage, 1.8^2 / 1.4^2 = 65% increase. Add the %25 clock increase too, that gives you a 100% increase in power, resulting in 134W. We can safely assume that we're pushing the limits of possible quiet cooling. 134W required 11.2A on the 12V rail.

Lets look at nate's gear:
The 6600GT I'm guessing will drain around 2.5A. The seagate will require around 2A at spinup, less afterwards, say another 2 for the DVDRW. That's a total of what? 6.5A. OK, let's say, he goes for extreme overclock on the 6600GT and adds another hdd and another DVD. That'd make 3A for the 6600GT, 4A for the hdds, 4A for the optical drives (this is really a worst case scenario. Thanks to cascaded spinup, the actual power draw will probably be at least 2A less) for a total of 11A.

So a PSU supporting 12A on each rail or a total of 24A on a single 12V rail will be enough to get you very serious overclocks on both the CPU and the VGA. The Seasonic SS 400W is 22A on the 12V rail so it's borderline (I think if you tried running the system with the 400W, it still would run stable but we're really being extra extra safe here) so a Seasonic 460W would be more than enough for you.

There's your proof that a 500W is overkill. Please note that the power requirements for the CPU overclock (a 100% increase) is pretty much a worst-case scenario and you really wouldn't be able to exhaust so much heat quietly anyway. I'd even bet money that if you overclocked a little less (even the same overclock at a slightly less voltage, say 1.7A) that system you specified (plus an extra hdd or two even) could be run with a 400W seasonic in a properly ventilated case.

For the record, despite my patience, I'm also getting fed up with newcomers who carry the "I don't want to learn anything, just answer my question" attitude. This is not directed at any one person but a general vent of my frustration.
Click to expand...

Now I don't know what all that means. I wish I could find a article to help me both understand and calculate like he did (anyone got a link?? would much appreciate it :) ). I'm still wondering how that efficiency thing works. if he caculated to 22.2a (if I read it right) and the psu gives 24a with 80% efficiency doesn't that become 19.2a ?? or does it not work that way?? (oh well, anybody got a link where i can read and learn, much appreciated). Been reading alot (so much I don't know :( ).


Anyways, after all that got a new psu looking I'm looking at.

I need it to handle :

fx-57- oced
2gb memory
2 74gb raptors
2 6800 ultra extremes- maybe oced
4 - 120 mm fans
dvd-rw

(even if I don't get that at beginning, I want something that can handle it- I don't want to waste money and keep changing psu's)

Will this handle it ?? I'm basing it off what that guy wrote. It has total of 29a for the 12v, not sure if that will be enough though. Whats the minimum?

http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=17-151-023&depa=0


If this works (is enough power), that would be perfect- everything i want. But guessing too good to be true.

Here's the whole article:

http://forums.silentpcreview.com/viewtopic.php?t=19778&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0

Is it wrong or good info??
 
it seems like a nice psu; it's still atx though. at one point or another you'll have to go to 24 pin. now, i don't know when amd platform would go btx, if ever, but there's something to keep in mind. ones again, need to ask Wolf about this one.
 
The Seasonic won't handle that load, I think... 6800's are a little more power hungry than the 6600's. I would suggest this one:

http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=17-103-478&depa=0

Not much more money, and a whole lot more power - that single 36A 12v rail should never run out of steam for you. I'd also give the OCZ 520w+ units a look, or Zippy above 500w. Zippy has the only dual 12v rail unit I'm currently recommending for SLI on the 6800's... it's a 600w good for 26A and 20A on each one.

I tend to stick to single rail designs for 6800's in SLI for the simple fact that one of the 12v rails in a dual setup may not be adequate for these cards. The Seasonic might run them now, but it won't be able to get power from the other 12v if it needs to in the future, if nVidia comes out with even more power hungry cards. The single rail design won't have that problem.

Edit - FWIW just thought I would mention - if memory serves BFG is selling a 6800 SLI package that comes with a Fortron/Powertech dual rail unit. It's the FSP550-60PLN, which does have dual 12v of 18A each.
 
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mcoleg:

Thx :) . So caught up into the reviews and different parts, I didn't realize that psu didn't have 24 pin. I gotta be more careful.

Wolf:

Thx :). I got an eye on that sparkle and ocz (both look good, just don't know about their sound), but still reading up. In my readings finding more psu's and learning more things. I'm gonna pass on that zippy since you already mentioned they are built for performance and probably loud. I had bought the top of the line antec many years ago (paid over $150 for it then- was over 500 don't remember exactly which one). Boy that thing was loud !!! I had read so many good reviews on it and figured it should last me many years to come so worth paying the money (and I guess it would have too), but I didn't realize how loud it was. I ended up giving it away to a friend.This time I'm not gonna make the same mistake again. Plus I am goin for the Holy Grail of silence and performance. although impossible, will try my best. I guess I might try modding the sparkle if necessary. Not gonna mod the ocz though,If I buy that one (just gonna live with it). But still reading up, learning, and looking at other options also.

Quick question: there is a psu with 4 rails

It has 12V1@9A, +12V2@9A, +12V3@15A, +12V4@8A thats 41 amp total on 12v line

Is that a good thing, or is it gonna create problems??

edit: haha Wolf. I just saw your post at another forum:

If anyone at OCZ is reading this, I really like the idea of Powerstreams with 120mm fans and modular cables
Click to expand...

I totally I agree !! If I could find one of those (if they ever take your suggestion and start making them), I would stop searching and buy it !! That is exactly what I am looking for, but can't find.
 
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I must confess, the FSP/Sparkle 550w units are also aimed at servers - single 80mm fan. I have no idea how loud they are.

Skip the 4 way 12v unit... hard to tell which does what on that one. Seems a little too divided up to me. There's probably a reason OCZ decided on the dual rail Topower 600w design - that one can also be had in triple or quad 12's.

lol - forgot about that post in the other forum :)
 
mcoleg said:
anywho, why nf7-s w/xp-m 2600+? i know that's what i am typing on :p but you could get dfi lp 250 and semtron 2600+ for the same $. should be a bit faster.
Click to expand...


:cool: Ah, but what about after overclocking? Those xp-m 2400 to 2600+'s overclock like nothing else.

the sempron 2600+s are getting to around 2.5 or so, but then again, so does my non-mobile 2100+.

I guess the architecture of the semprons could be that much better that it doesn't matter.
 
I would think hard about go with this type of setup if I where you.

1.) Budget 64

A64 2800 Becuase windows 64bit edition comes out in two weeks. $109
DFI Lanparty 250gb Best s754 board out there.
Gskill pc-4400 LC not the LE or LA but still some pretty decent TCCD $239
EVGA 6800nu A much better choice than the 9800 for the same price $244.

then #2

2.) Future proofing.
A64 3000 s939 90nm probably will get you atleast 2.5ghz. $139
DFI Lanparty Ultra-d Arguebly the best A64 board put there $147
OCZ VX 1gb the best A64 mem you can get when coupled with the DFI $245
EVGA 6600GT PCI-e inexpensive and fast $185

And to power these.

Fortron AX500

Good Luck on building your first rig.
 
Thx wolf,mcoleg,crash,speed bump :). After these lasts posts, I've decided I'm gonna check one last thing out. If it doesn't work out then choose between the fortron or ocz. But first I want to check out the quality of that coolmax/rosewill/star tech/who knows what other names it goes by (reminds me of the forton ;) ). There is a microcenter close by me where they sell the star tech, gonna go check it out. If it turns out to be badly made then I'll choose either the fortron or ocz. If it looks like good quality, then I'll take my chances on it (heck, $50 is not much of a risk, doesn't work out then I'll buy the fortron/ocz). Too many good reviews. Actually, not one bad review yet that I've seen by forum members. And it seems incredible if true !!! (I know,I know, the saying if its too good to be true, it probably is :D ).

Thx speed bump for the list :). I actually have a roadmap . I'll explain it in the morning (you can smack me in the head and knock some sense in me then :D ). Its late and i'm too tired to think and type. I much appreciate the layout (especially adding the prices, that helps out alot !!). after I lay it out, who knows it might not even sound right to me and I end up taking your advice ;) . Either way, I need to make up my mind on all the parts fast. I only have one more week to decide. I have to order everything within 7 days, put everything togather, and get it stable (well as much a amd can get stable that is). Classes start in 1 month.

Edit: sorry had to do a edit. I'm so tired and sleepy, i'm not sure I wrote correctly. I meant at the beginning of this thx to your last posts wolf,mcoleg,crash and speed bump that I decided on going with your advices and getting the fortron/ocz. However, I just want to make sure I'm not letting go of a great thing in that rosewill in case it is as good as it sounds.

(goes to the sports store to find a helmet)
 
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well, if you do decide to get it, please make sure and let us know how it performs...
 
Okay, I'm waaaaaaaay new to OC. I've built a lot of systems. I tried to overclock a duron once by putting some pencil on it or something. That was years ago. It fried! So, that was the end of that. I'm building a new system. I have most of it but there is the PS issue. I have no idea what to get. I know I'll need over 400W. My system... Asus A8N-SLI Deluxe, Athlon 64 3800+, Corsair VS512MB400 x2, nVIDIA Geforce 6600GT and a 74GB Raptor. I need a PS. I like the idea of modular. Once I get a PS, I'll be ready to assemble. THEN, I need to learn how to make my chip, video card, memory etc. sing! Where do I start learning about making this stupid fast workstation... go faster???

Thanks
Frankie B.

Oh, and how do I add an avatar?
 
frankieb :welcome: to OC FORUMS

Well, I'm a noob too So I will let someone more experienced answer your question. I would venture a guess from your spec and what everyone has been telling me they will recommend a fortron blue storm 500w (ax500). As far as avatar, I believe you need to have a certain number of posts before it allows you to add one (not sure but i think its 50 posts- Someone else plz confirm, thx :) ).

mcoleg:

I definitely will. But someone will have to teach me how to use a multimeter and how to take readings ;) .
 
The trouble with Rosewill is you don't know what you might be getting - I've seen 5 different OEM UL file numbers on these things ranging from ATNG (decent - Coolmax uses them) to Deer (awful). I would avoid them until they make up their minds.
 
Oklahoma Wolf said:
ATNG (decent - Coolmax uses them)
Click to expand...

wait a minute, I'm so tired I didn't realize it at first. You already know the manufacturer of coolmax and their quality?!?!?!? But I read so many good reviews on those 500 and 550 watters (400 watters is a different story though) !! Hmm...So I should forget about the coolmax then? Or do you think there is chance that these might turnout to be good this time??
 
thx chunkymunkey :). I've read it. I appreciate it :).

thx schismspeak :) . So build quality as in it will last longer, or performance ?? I'm not too worrried about lasting too long. As long as it lasts 2-3 years is enough for me. 100,000 hours equals roughly over 10-11 years. I'm pretty sure I'm gonna upgrade before then :D . Performance is a different issue. From what I can tell from the reviews of forum members, it stays well within the regulation on oced systems. Most quality psu's (ocz excepted) seem to drop below the voltage (even pc power and cooling <--ok I'm gonna get flak for this :D )but within regulation so guessing that's not gonna affect stability or ocing power.Am I correct in assuming that?? The only psu that i've seen in reviews that stays above the voltage most(if not all, only found one review it didn't)is that ocz 520 powerstream. Plus if its decent I'm gonna assume it won't fry (sp??) any components when it decides to croak.

Well, as usual I appreciate your thoughts on what I just said above :).

and I really do appreciate everyone's advice. everyone's been pretty helpful and friendly (eventhough I'm somewhat going against the grain in my talk at least<-- just trying to figure things out and calculate whats worth it most for me ).

P.S. - I'm also gonna venture a guess that if staying above the voltage actually makes a difference for ocing power, then the pwstrm 520 is better than pcpc(PCPowerandCooling).(puts helmet on).
 
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Speed Bump:

Ok You convinced me to go the 939 route !!!

Boy I must have been really tired last night. I couldn't think straight. Thats only $200 more than the nf7-s route. Well worth it. Thx alot !!!! :). I'm still not sure about the 500w fortron though because I want to go more powerful system later.
 
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