Designing new rig!!

[Antioch]

Hi guys.

I'm sure everyone knows the LianLi PC-V1000B these days - and that's what I'm planning on using for my new system. I'm trying to build the rig for silence as well as performance because I'd like to OC my CPU and GPU (though I don't know how much a 7900GT will give, as they use the 7900GTX cores that couldnt clock high enough).

Technical specs:
AMD Athlon64 X2 42/4400 (we'll see how cheap I can get em in a month after price drops)
GeForce 7900GT
ASUS M2N-SLI Deluxe motherboard (yup, going AM2)
2GB RAM, probably Corsair
DVD/CD-RW, going Plextor, SATA version
1x 74gb Raptor (16mb cache ver.)
1x 320gb Barracuda (7200.10) (16mb cache, NQC)

That being said, I'm planning on getting CPU, GPU, and chipset blocks and cooling them all in 1 loop.

Watercooling gear:
Haven't decided exactly what yet.

I'd like to mount a 120mm rad in the front bottom HD area, as I'm sure many people have seen before. I'd also like to mount another 120mm rad in the top 5.25" drive bay - cut a hole in the top of the case and get a nice grill. Will 2 120mm rads perform well?

As for the waterblocks, not too sure what is the best. People say that the Swiftech Apogee is great - better than DangerDen. Worth getting? Also Swiftech's chipset and GPU blocks are good as well. What do you think? Its said that the 7900GT's RAM runs a lot cooler than the 7800-models and that RAMsinks are enough for cooling, is this true?

Res - I'd like to get a drivebay res but I think I may not have room. Im which case I'll have to think of something. About drivebay res'es though, I've heard that they are sloshy, that is they make a lot of water sounds. Is this true? Can anyone reccommend one that is silent? If I can't fit a drivebay res, I guess I'll mount a small cylindrical res in the top of the case, or get that small, vertical res from alphacool (I think they make it...)

I'd also like to get the quietest pump possible. Of course I'm building a rig for cool temps, but also silence. I've heard that the DDC is the quietest pump out there, so I'm thinking about getting one. My question is, is it strong enough to pump through 2 120mm rads, a res, and 3 waterblocks? Hopefully it is, but if it isn't I guess I can always get 2 and hook em up in series.

Supposing the DDC isn't enough, how about using the alphacool top with the vertical intake port? Would that boost it? Or a DDC+, normal, or with alphatop mod? If I have to get 2, I would like to get this new Alphacool top.

I want to use smaller tubing, not 1/2" ID. I've used it before and, not that it was bad, but in this situation things will be too cramped and it'd be easier to use something like 3/8" ID. Is there anything smaller? I know that the AquaComputer parts and other german parts use smaller tubing - 1/4" (6mm)ID and 1/3" (8mm)ID I think. What size is best to go with?

Anyways, thoughts and suggestions are welcomed and needed!

Thanks guys!

When I get the parts and start working I'll make sure to create a worklog.

(BTW - if anyone knows any modders who are skilled aluminum workers, let me know. I'm looking for someone to build a small encasing for which I've made designs for - Thanks)

 

[Tekko]

You forgot to tell us your budget and which case will you be using...that might help us give better advice. But one thing is you are better to try and use a double radiator then two single ones, it will add less restriction and and you will have less connections in your tubing thus less place to have a leak...

 

[Antioch]

I mentioned it, but I guess I didn't state clearly enough. I'm going to be using the LianLi PC-V1000B. If I can get that damn casing I will use a triple 120mm rad.

Tekko - The trouble is, it's not really possible to fit a dual 120mm rad in that case. I have yet to see it done.

If possible I would like to get create my own top cover, similar to the one by Koolance pictured HERE. Then I would mount a top triple 120mm rad.

Budget... well there's no fixed number. Just not crazy expensive. I like to use the multiple smaller purchases and not add it up strategy, lol. But yea, not incredibly expensive.

 

[calvin]

Noisy res operation arises from insufficient filling. Bleeding air causes the liquid level to drop. Fill, bleed, then a final top up will avoid water sloshing around.

Regarding your plans. To keep things tidy and functional recommend you consolidate some of your hardware plans. Your idea for dual pumps, dual rads, bay res, and cpu + gpu + chipset blocks is going to generate a lot of tubing runs. In that case you're right small as possible dia tubing is preferable. Recognize though that 1/4 is not common in a lot of the North American shops.

A local machine shop should be able to process your design idea, assuming you have adequate drawings of your idea.

Attractive case but a challenge for wc'ing so good luck.

 

[Antioch]

What are the pros and cons of going with smaller tubing?

 

[QuietIce]

The Swiftech MCW60 GPU block and MC14 RAMsinks are working great on my 7900GTX though I did have to modify two of the RAMsinks to fit under the 1/2" barbs. I doubt there would be a problem with 3/8" barbs.

IMO - air works fine for these motherboards. The heat-pipe system on my A8N32-SLI is very similar to the M8N set-up and does a decent job of cooling the chipset. I have the rear fan pointed in and directed onto the main chipset radiator and have MB temps (per ASUS Probe II) from 39-41°C all the time. The extra sensors mounted on the middle cooler (the M2N board doesn't have one of those) and the MOSFET HS read 30°C and 25°C, respectively.

 

[Antioch]

Yes, I imagine that the heatpipe cooler would work well if yoou point a fan at it. However, the LianLi PC-V series cases use the inverted motherboard mounting scheme, which results in an up-side-down heatpipe placement - and that is no good. It basically stops the heatpipe from working, which is why I need to get a chipset cooler.

 

[SolidxSnake]

I suggest you stick with the plain DDC+ with the alphacool top. That'd be plenty for a single loop. I'd also stick with 1/2" ID tubing. 3/8" ID is smaller, and easier to bend and route, but it's restrictive. I'd also stick with a single rad, either a 2x120 or a 3x120. I'm sure you could find a way to mount it in a Lian-Li (a Radbox would fit without modding). If you were going to mount the rad externally with a radbox, you could route tubing going res->pump->cpu->nb->gpu->rad->res, or ...gpu->nb->rad->res

 

[Antioch]

That's what I'm thinking about doing.

pump > rad > cpu > gpu > chipset > res > pump

although it might make thetubing run a little cleaner if I ran it like:

pump > cpu > gpu > chipset > res > rad > pump

but I'm not sure if that would make my temps take too much of a hit (especially if I go with dual pumps)

The bottom grey area is a Liang DDC pump, I'll get the Alphacool top on it and make intake the vertical tube and output the horizontal tube.

The purple box is a res. I don't know which yet, perferably a smaller one. Or I might go with the swiftech box type res (the small one), I don't know. Know any good 3.5" single bay res's?

The rad will be a triple 120mm rad, mounted internally with 3 120mm fans mounted externally. I'm looking at using a BlackIce 360 Pro (I believe it has a 1" thickness). As for fans, I don't know yet. I want to get the most silent possible. Any thoughts?

Waterblocks. I have no idea yet. Obviously I want the best flow with bester performance.

I don't know if a DDC can handle all that pushing and keep a good flow rate. Anyone know? If need be I can go with dual DDCs. Thoughts?

Oh, and for tubing I'm considering 3/8"ID tubing. Which kind is the most flexible?

Speaking of tubing, the output from the pump runs up in an opening behind the 5.25" drive bays incase you were wondering. I have yet to decide if I should put an L-barb on the output from the res... That might make it easier to deal with the tubing.

Anyways, thoughts, suggestions, ideas?

Ah, also, how much performance will I get out of a blackice 360 pro as compared to a 270?

Thanks!

 

[SolidxSnake]

If you're going 3/8" ID tubing, you won't need the alphacool top, just mount the pump sideways so both barbs are facing upwards. I was under the assumption that you wouldn't want to cut into the case (because Lian-Lis are so goddamn sexyy ), but if you mount it that way, i say you do this. First, mount the res in the lowest bay you can. Also, i'd buy an x-flow rad just for a cleaner tube routing. It could go: res->pump->cpu->gpu->nb->rad->res. A normal 360 would work fine too. I'll draw out a pic and edit this post when i do.

Also, for fans, complete silence would be 3, or even 6, Yate-Loon fans. They don't push much air however. It depends how quiet of a fan you need. I'd probably go with 3 Sanyo-Denki's or Panaflo's (the panaflos are 86.5CFM, the Denki's are 102CFM), and then undervolt them to 7v or 5v. My Sanyo's are audible at 7v, but are quiet enough. I can't hear them over my room's AC with just the fan on (or my music for that matter ).

For waterblocks, I'd go Apogee, Maze4 or MCW-60 (with the Swiftech ramsinks), and i'd probably use a maze4 chipset for the chipset block (if it fits with a video card in there). A DDC+, or even a DDC won't have any problems pushing through that. However, i'd HIGHLY reccommend 1/2" ID tubing, with a modded Alphacool top for the DDC.

Edit: This picture is with an x-flow rad, and normal unmodded DDC using 3/8" tubing.

 

[calvin]

Antioch - nice idea. IMO a great water cooling layout is one that delivers performance while not compromising functionality. I like the way your runs keep the pci slot area clear.

Regarding most flexible tubing options- Primoflex, Tygon R1000, or Silicone. In 3/8's you should be able to make some pretty tight turns with any of these options.

 

[Antioch]

Yes, in the beginnig I did think I wouldn't want to tear up the case too much, but the more and more I thought about it I realized that I would have to. A single 120mm rad in the bottom front wouldnt' offer enough cooling power, so I'd have to put a second one in the top . Not only are 2 120s more expensive than a double 120, but they also offer more resistance in the loop. Then I thought I should put a double 120mm in the top, and then I thought, what the hell, I'll just splurge and get a triple in there since it will fit.

By the way, will a triple really offer that much more heat dissipation than a double? I don't really know, but I was thinking that since I want to run fans as silent as possible I'd get low flow rates and that a larger rad would be better since I'd have more surface area to cool stuff off with.

As for the fans... do the knob/dial fan RP controllers that you can install in your drivebay limit the voltage the fan recieves? or do they drop the current? Which I suppose is the same thing in the long run as V=IR, lol. But I was thinking I'd like to get the fan that runs the quietest while still performs well, that way I can crank it down to near silent while I'm on my desktop, then turn them up a bit (and still have them not too loud) while in games.

By the way, I must apologize if what I'm saying doesn't make sense or sounds dragged out. I'm incredibly tired from a long weekend and I'm about to go back to bed.

Uh, what else.

Thanks for the layout design idea. The reason mine is a bit cluttered is that I heard it's best to make the loop go pump > rad > cpu ... that way the CPU gets the coolest possible water without whatever heat the pump dumps in. But, yes, if you disregard that idea it is easier to make a clean run.

Calvin, yes I wanted to try and keep the PCI slots as clear as possible, thats why I'm going with the thinnest rad I can find (another reason why I wanted to go with a triple - more surface area even thought its thinner). However, the top PCI slot might still be unuseable. Physically you'll be able to put a card in there, but I think it will be so close to the rad that it might block airflow. I don't have an exact number yet, but I'd guess the installed card would have abou a centimeter of clearance. Even so, I will only have 1 card - a graphics card, and maybe an HDTV tuner later down the line so I'm still ok.

Oh and, as for ripping up the sexy LianLi. Yes, for the longest time I didn't want to take a blade to her, but in the end I think I'll have to. What I want to do is get a shroud/top shaped like the Koolance Exos2. Here's a picture of the "built in" version:

If I can get a nice top then I won't feel bad. I'll also put a nice brushed aluminum black 3.120mm grill on top instead of those circular grills.

And, SolidxSnake, with the 3/8" ID tubing, why do you say to not use the Alphacool top? And id the DDC+ that much louder than the DDC? Also, is the increaced performance boost worth it - considering that I'll be on 3/8" ID tubing?

Swiftech for CPU, DangerDen Maze4 for GPU, and DD or Swift for chipset? I've heard that the Storm is more restrictive than the Apogee - is that true? Does it offer enough increaced cooling power to make it worth the increaced restrictivity?

I'm going to pick up a GeForce 7900GT, voltmod it, and OC to, hopefully 700+ on the GPU. I'll also try to boost the ram as well and as such the heat will rise. Although the 7900's are said to have cooler RAM since it's a difference version (DDR3 I think? can't remember off the top of my head and Im sleepy as it is), I still think that they'll get hot while OCed. Will those swiftech RAMsinks be enough to handle it?

I've heard it said that the blocks that cover both GPU and memory offer too much resistance to make it worth it... yes?

And, if I remove the heatpipe, should I look into getting coolers on the mosfet/8-phase power area? If so, what options are available? (Going for the ASUS M2N-SLI Deluxe motherboard - not the one with wireless and nforce 590, but the one with nforce 570).

Hmm, that's all I can think of for now. Sorry for the long post. I guess I tend to ramble when I'm exhausted.

Thanks for the good ideas and help guys. Keep it coming! =D

PS - Incase you were wondering I'm actually aborad in Japan right now. Getting back home on July 30th and I'm just trying to plan things out so I can jump right in. When I start I'll post pictures and a log.. that kind of thing.

Edit:
By the way, I've been fooling around with the idea of going with 8mmID 10mmOD tubing and getting some AquaComputer parts. Any thoughts on that? Just wondering what the general concensus was, lol. It's just a thought lingering in the back of my mind.

 

[SolidxSnake]

Yes, in the beginnig I did think I wouldn't want to tear up the case too much, but the more and more I thought about it I realized that I would have to. A single 120mm rad in the bottom front wouldnt' offer enough cooling power, so I'd have to put a second one in the top . Not only are 2 120s more expensive than a double 120, but they also offer more resistance in the loop. Then I thought I should put a double 120mm in the top, and then I thought, what the hell, I'll just splurge and get a triple in there since it will fit.

By the way, will a triple really offer that much more heat dissipation than a double? I don't really know, but I was thinking that since I want to run fans as silent as possible I'd get low flow rates and that a larger rad would be better since I'd have more surface area to cool stuff off with.

As for the fans... do the knob/dial fan RP controllers that you can install in your drivebay limit the voltage the fan recieves? or do they drop the current? Which I suppose is the same thing in the long run as V=IR, lol. But I was thinking I'd like to get the fan that runs the quietest while still performs well, that way I can crank it down to near silent while I'm on my desktop, then turn them up a bit (and still have them not too loud) while in games.

By the way, I must apologize if what I'm saying doesn't make sense or sounds dragged out. I'm incredibly tired from a long weekend and I'm about to go back to bed.

Uh, what else.

Thanks for the layout design idea. The reason mine is a bit cluttered is that I heard it's best to make the loop go pump > rad > cpu ... that way the CPU gets the coolest possible water without whatever heat the pump dumps in. But, yes, if you disregard that idea it is easier to make a clean run.

Calvin, yes I wanted to try and keep the PCI slots as clear as possible, thats why I'm going with the thinnest rad I can find (another reason why I wanted to go with a triple - more surface area even thought its thinner). However, the top PCI slot might still be unuseable. Physically you'll be able to put a card in there, but I think it will be so close to the rad that it might block airflow. I don't have an exact number yet, but I'd guess the installed card would have abou a centimeter of clearance. Even so, I will only have 1 card - a graphics card, and maybe an HDTV tuner later down the line so I'm still ok.

Oh and, as for ripping up the sexy LianLi. Yes, for the longest time I didn't want to take a blade to her, but in the end I think I'll have to. What I want to do is get a shroud/top shaped like the Koolance Exos2. Here's a picture of the "built in" version:

If I can get a nice top then I won't feel bad. I'll also put a nice brushed aluminum black 3.120mm grill on top instead of those circular grills.

And, SolidxSnake, with the 3/8" ID tubing, why do you say to not use the Alphacool top? And id the DDC+ that much louder than the DDC? Also, is the increaced performance boost worth it - considering that I'll be on 3/8" ID tubing?

Swiftech for CPU, DangerDen Maze4 for GPU, and DD or Swift for chipset? I've heard that the Storm is more restrictive than the Apogee - is that true? Does it offer enough increaced cooling power to make it worth the increaced restrictivity?

I'm going to pick up a GeForce 7900GT, voltmod it, and OC to, hopefully 700+ on the GPU. I'll also try to boost the ram as well and as such the heat will rise. Although the 7900's are said to have cooler RAM since it's a difference version (DDR3 I think? can't remember off the top of my head and Im sleepy as it is), I still think that they'll get hot while OCed. Will those swiftech RAMsinks be enough to handle it?

I've heard it said that the blocks that cover both GPU and memory offer too much resistance to make it worth it... yes?

And, if I remove the heatpipe, should I look into getting coolers on the mosfet/8-phase power area? If so, what options are available? (Going for the ASUS M2N-SLI Deluxe motherboard - not the one with wireless and nforce 590, but the one with nforce 570).

Hmm, that's all I can think of for now. Sorry for the long post. I guess I tend to ramble when I'm exhausted.

Thanks for the good ideas and help guys. Keep it coming! =D

PS - Incase you were wondering I'm actually aborad in Japan right now. Getting back home on July 30th and I'm just trying to plan things out so I can jump right in. When I start I'll post pictures and a log.. that kind of thing.

Regarding the triple vs double: I'd stick with the triple for silence for your logic basically. If you haev a double, you'll probably need stronger (and in turn louder) fans to keep up with silent fans on a triple rad.

Regarding fan controllers: They reduce voltage. They work fine to plug fans into and lower/raise speed.

Regarding the routing: That's a myth. There is almost no difference between water anywhere in the loop (1C, 2C at most). It's better to have the tubing go in the easiest, shortest, least restrictive route.

Regarding the pump: I was under the impression that the Alphacool top was to increase pressure and flow with a 1/2" ID setup, and that there wouldn't be any benefits with 3/8" ID tubing. If there is a benefit, i stand corrected.

Regarding the Storm vs Apogee: The storm does cool better than the Apogee, because of it's jet impingement design. Also, it does benefit from high pressure. I'm not sure on the numbers, but if you can afford it, the Storm is the way to go. Also, with the storm, you'd want to have the pump's outlet go into the CPU first, as that would give most pressure and cooling power.

Regarding the Vid card: I'd suppose the ramsinks have enough cooling power as long as you have some airflow in the case. If you want to get all-cover waterblocks, Eddy_EK makes great waterblocks, as well as consumer9000 (www.stasisthermal.com). I'm not sure if they have 7900GT blocks however.

Regarding the MOSFETs and other cooling: I'd definately cool those down. Microcool ChipSinks would work fine, I'd suppose. Again, make sure you have some air blowing over them. I'd guess your Lian-Li has an exhaust fan right where the power regulation is, so with some sinks you'd be fine.

Regarding the 8mm/10mm ID/OD tubing: I'd stick with 1/2" ID tubing for performance. 3/8" ID is restrictive enough (especially with a storm). If 1/2" is too thick to route in your case (i highly doubt it), you could use 7/16" tubing with 1/2" barbs (and 7/16" Masterkleer is dirt cheap from McMaster-Carr, Part Number: 5233K44)

 

[Antioch]

Dangerden "coverall" GPU waterbloks are no good?

I'd probably go with 3/8"ID. I had 1/2"ID in my first, and previous WC build. It only cooled the CPU, but the tubing, though it was Tygon, was still bulky.

Even if I had the Storm, would a regular, single DDC still be able to deal with that loop?

Also, I've heard that some of the dyes can clog your system and put sticky blue goo in your storm core... true? Which dyes/additives do you recommend for use with distilled water? Hopefully I'll be able to go all copper that way I dont need to add the corrosion prevention additives.

 

[SolidxSnake]

Dangerden "coverall" GPU waterbloks are no good?

I'd probably go with 3/8"ID. I had 1/2"ID in my first, and previous WC build. It only cooled the CPU, but the tubing, though it was Tygon, was still bulky.

Even if I had the Storm, would a regular, single DDC still be able to deal with that loop?

Also, I've heard that some of the dyes can clog your system and put sticky blue goo in your storm core... true? Which dyes/additives do you recommend for use with distilled water? Hopefully I'll be able to go all copper that way I dont need to add the corrosion prevention additives.

Dangerden blocks are good, but expensive. They make one for 7900GTs?

Hmm, i'd check out 7/16" tubing. I dunno, i just got something against 3/8"

I'm sure a DDC would be able to deal with it. It's actually better for high-restriction loops than the D5.

You'll want a liquid based dye. I use FrozenCPU water dye.

 

[Antioch]

Well I'll look into the 7/18" tubing. But I really can't say without holding them in my hands, lol.

I'll look into that dye - thanks.

I thought they made one that fit on 7900GTs. Ah, here it is. It's a new model as well - looks really nice. Link
Doesn't look very restrictive to me, but what do I know?

Is the Apogee or Storm better than the DangerDen TDX? New AM2 TDX waterblock.

As for bay reses - any suggestions? I'm not going to be putting any LEDs in my case(or res) nor will I have a side panel widow, so I don't really think I need a *bling* res. However, I am thinking that it might be nice to have a nice, stylish, clear-front res so I can see the waterlevel. If not I'll just put the bay cover on it so I don't have to see it, lol.

Thanks for the help SolidxSnake

 

[calvin]

As for bay reses - any suggestions?

http://www.performance-pcs.com/catalog/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=318&products_id=4489

 

[SolidxSnake]

Well I'll look into the 7/18" tubing. But I really can't say without holding them in my hands, lol.

I'll look into that dye - thanks.

I thought they made one that fit on 7900GTs. Ah, here it is. It's a new model as well - looks really nice. Link
Doesn't look very restrictive to me, but what do I know?

Is the Apogee or Storm better than the DangerDen TDX? New AM2 TDX waterblock.

As for bay reses - any suggestions? I'm not going to be putting any LEDs in my case(or res) nor will I have a side panel widow, so I don't really think I need a *bling* res. However, I am thinking that it might be nice to have a nice, stylish, clear-front res so I can see the waterlevel. If not I'll just put the bay cover on it so I don't have to see it, lol.

Thanks for the help SolidxSnake

The storm blows away the TDX, and i'm sure the apogee beats it by a fair margin as well.

 

[Antioch]

What about the SCYTHE S-FLEX SFF21F fans? Do they provide adequate flow? As mentioned above, silence is important to me. Near silence at least. I'll probably stick them on a controller so I can manually crank them down to lower noise/speed levels, and crank them up when the situation calls for it.

And I erally can't decide between the BlackIceGT Stealth 360 or BlackIceGT Stealth 360 Xflow. They're the same rad, right? With the exception that one has the barbs on the same side, and the other has them on opposite sides, right? I know that the point of ease of tube routing was raised before, but I wish the Xflow's barbs flipped sides, lol.

Anyways, they still perform the same right? The Xflow is $10 more expensive (I think) but also 14mm longer...

 

[sir_pyro]

They're pretty good fans. I have two in my system right now on the rad, and I'm about to add one to a second rad and one for a case intake. I cant here them at all over my north bidge and PSU fan, and seem to be in the same class as a Yate Loon in noise. They also seem to throttle nicely on my fan controller.