Do we really need to use Gold PSU ?

[Gh0sT-NoVa]

The thing is that it is quite hard to have 60+ Amp on one single rail (not a lot would support it ^^'). It is possible to use multiple rail in order to lower the requirement on each rail.

The seasonic X-760 for instance is a 12V single-rail PSU.

This one is multi-rail:

http://www.jonnyguru.com/modules.php?name=NDReviews&op=Story2&reid=327

The issue with the multi-rail is that you can't simply say "well, if I can do a single rail PSU that supports 60 Amp, I have to be able to build a 4 rail PSU with each rail supporting 60 Amp to build a monster PSU supporting 240 Amp muahahahaha"

It just doesn't work like that. If you plan to build a PSU, single or multi rail, the max power is determined by a lot of parameters outside the number of rails.
So, with a limited max power, you have to split it in several rails. You also have a limited current on each rail... so limited sometimes that it isn't enough to feed a GPU
The Inwin that I've linked you would have trouble running an OCd GTX580 for example

The key for the customer stays the same: always check the current for the 12V rail(s) and see if it matches with the components

WAO...that's 25 amp on the rail , it's still lacking ?? The GTX 580 is so power consuming ?? Because as i said ,i saw a vid he said usually 18 - 20 amp will do fine...but....uh he did mention something like if you don't go crazy like Xfire / SLI , heavily OC , Multi Rail be fine , if you looking to do heavy OC and such , it's better off with a Single Rail with high Amp , but usually those are over 1000W PSU....

Here , this is the vid i learn from , though looking back at it again...this is during 2008....lol ! Maybe things changed plenty since then...

 

[Knufire]

Most PSUs now are single rail, it doesn't have to do with the wattage. There's single and multi rail for low wattage and high wattage PSUs.

The figures that ED mentioned for the 580 was a voltmodded card on liquid nitrogen cooling, need a monster PSU for monster Ocs.

 

[fornoob]

Sorry, it is a typo, I meant GTX590 (~30A), not GTX 580 (~20A)

 

[EarthDog]

The thing is that it is quite hard to have 60+ Amp on one single rail (not a lot would support it ^^'). It is possible to use multiple rail in order to lower the requirement on each rail.

The seasonic X-760 for instance is a 12V single-rail PSU.

This one is multi-rail:

http://www.jonnyguru.com/modules.php?name=NDReviews&op=Story2&reid=327

The issue with the multi-rail is that you can't simply say "well, if I can do a single rail PSU that supports 60 Amp, I have to be able to build a 4 rail PSU with each rail supporting 60 Amp to build a monster PSU supporting 240 Amp muahahahaha"

It just doesn't work like that. If you plan to build a PSU, single or multi rail, the max power is determined by a lot of parameters outside the number of rails.
So, with a limited max power, you have to split it in several rails. You also have a limited current on each rail... so limited sometimes that it isn't enough to feed a GPU
The Inwin that I've linked you would have trouble running an OCd GTX590 for example

The key for the customer stays the same: always check the current for the 12V rail(s) and see if it matches with the components

Im really not sure what most of this means.. I need some coffee,

The inwin may have trouble if it was connected to the same rail, yep. OCP on those rails tripped at 27A (27*12= 324W).

 

[Gh0sT-NoVa]

The thing is that it is quite hard to have 60+ Amp on one single rail (not a lot would support it ^^'). It is possible to use multiple rail in order to lower the requirement on each rail.

The seasonic X-760 for instance is a 12V single-rail PSU.

This one is multi-rail:

http://www.jonnyguru.com/modules.php?name=NDReviews&op=Story2&reid=327

The issue with the multi-rail is that you can't simply say "well, if I can do a single rail PSU that supports 60 Amp, I have to be able to build a 4 rail PSU with each rail supporting 60 Amp to build a monster PSU supporting 240 Amp muahahahaha"

It just doesn't work like that. If you plan to build a PSU, single or multi rail, the max power is determined by a lot of parameters outside the number of rails.
So, with a limited max power, you have to split it in several rails. You also have a limited current on each rail... so limited sometimes that it isn't enough to feed a GPU
The Inwin that I've linked you would have trouble running an OCd GTX590 for example

The key for the customer stays the same: always check the current for the 12V rail(s) and see if it matches with the components

Most PSUs now are single rail, it doesn't have to do with the wattage. There's single and multi rail for low wattage and high wattage PSUs.

The figures that ED mentioned for the 580 was a voltmodded card on liquid nitrogen cooling, need a monster PSU for monster Ocs.

Ah i see that really clear things up.
But i myself forgot that even without doing voltage mod , when we OC our GPU , with MSI Afterburner , we can tweak the Maximum Voltage too !

Sorry, it is a typo, I meant GTX590 (~30A), not GTX 580 (~20A)

GTX 590 lol , that's just got worst then ! Also i recall the 500 series is lot more power hunger compare to 600 , just like the HD 6000 series and 7000

Hmm just did a check on the price list again.

Corsair HX 650W - 141 $
Seasonic X-660W - 143 $

I might as go for the Seasonic for it's GOLD

Unless Corsair HX is GOLD too , then there's no different lol. But if recall correctly , didn't they updated AX to Platinum and HX to Gold ? But why are my shops still selling HX as Silver...old stocks ?

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817139012

The AX 650 here is selling for 168 $

While in US Newegg it's only for 149 $ but both the HX and AX is rated GOLD on Newegg....

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817139016

 

[fornoob]

Im really not sure what most of this means.. I need some coffee,

The inwin may have trouble if it was connected to the same rail, yep. OCP on those rails tripped at 27A (27*12= 324W).

Well, it is a looong way to say: don't think all high wattage PSU are multiple-rail, and that it allows you to build monster PSU only by multiplying separate 12V rails

Sorry for the headache :

 

[Knufire]

There's two versions. Your shops are probably still selling old stock of the old version.

 

[Gh0sT-NoVa]

There's two versions. Your shops are probably still selling old stock of the old version.

Yeah i check with a vid , the guy said Corsair have now updated it , currently HX is on V2 now...
I thought Corsair would have to take back the older stocks ? So if i were to buy the older one , i will lose , hope they will bring in new stocks soon...

 

[Bobnova]

Multiple rail units are safer than single rail units in short circuit conditions. A big single rail unit takes an awfully short circuit to shut down, where a multiple rail PSU of the same wattage will shut down far more easily.
This is important, as you can have a direct short on a single PCIe or CPU power connector that is short enough to cause a fire and not short enough to trigger OCP/SCP on a single rail unit.
Correctly done multiple rail units are safer, and won't cause issues.
Incorrectly done multiple rail units can have trouble with high wattage GPUs. With any multiple rail unit its a good idea to keep track of which rails you have plugged into what. In the case of the GTX590 for instance you would want to make sure you used two PCIe cables that are on different rails. Problem solved!


Efficiency wise, unless you're running 24/7 at high load there will be a truly minimal difference in your energy bill. Similarly the amount of heat produced by the PSU is a pretty small different until you get to a much high consumption rig than what you have.

If you aren't a server looking for years of error free uptime (and, of course, running an OS that can actually manage that. Windows ain't it) and aren't doing liquid nitrogen style benching, ripple and regulation really don't matter either as long as they're within spec.

That's the elephant in the room when it comes to PSU reviews. As long as it's within spec, it won't cause issues. That's the point of the spec.
As a PSU reviewer I make a fairly large deal out of small differences, because I'm rating PSUs against each other rather than rating them based on whether they can run a system. The Overclockers.com rating system is nice that way, as it reflects more the idea that the PSU functions and does what it says it will, rather than a numerical rating that makes much over differences that the end user won't notice.
(The other site I review for is numerical, I don't like it. Fail/Meh/Approved is better IMO)
Please note that the above is not an attack on PSU review sites that use numerical ratings. Not in the slightest.

Also on efficiency: Modern Gold PSUs have an almost flat curve from 20% onward, there isn't a dip at the high end anymore like there was in pre-80+ and 80+ base units, and to a lesser extent earlier 80+ bronze units. I would advise against buying a PSU 50% larger than you need, it's wasted money at this point. Something that has some room for OCing if you plan to OC is nice, but other than that buy what your computer actually needs and don't worry about the efficiency curve.

The bottom line is, if your current Seasonic unit is working well for you, I would not replace it.
If you are going to replace it (why?), as long as it's a PSU within spec that does what you want, efficiency and regulation and ripple control don't matter much.

 

[Gh0sT-NoVa]

Multiple rail units are safer than single rail units in short circuit conditions. A big single rail unit takes an awfully short circuit to shut down, where a multiple rail PSU of the same wattage will shut down far more easily.
This is important, as you can have a direct short on a single PCIe or CPU power connector that is short enough to cause a fire and not short enough to trigger OCP/SCP on a single rail unit.
Correctly done multiple rail units are safer, and won't cause issues.
Incorrectly done multiple rail units can have trouble with high wattage GPUs. With any multiple rail unit its a good idea to keep track of which rails you have plugged into what. In the case of the GTX590 for instance you would want to make sure you used two PCIe cables that are on different rails. Problem solved!

So meaning , since Multi Rail PSU are modulars ( i think all are modulars , least the one i know of are ) , basically there will have like 12V2 with 2 PCI , and another 12V3 with another 2 more , so i have to split it using 1 PCIE from 12V2 and another PCIE from 12V3 instead of using both PCIE in 12V2 rail then am i right ??

Is there a way to check what's your GPU amp requirement ? Must i use tools ?

The bottom line is, if your current Seasonic unit is working well for you, I would not replace it.
If you are going to replace it (why?), as long as it's a PSU within spec that does what you want, efficiency and regulation and ripple control don't matter much.

Hmm actually , TBH , no good reason. It's working flawlessly , silently too. No power shortage etc. It's just that , recently i have really became a PC enthusiast , since my current Seasonic looks so normal and simple. While comparing to those other gaming rig builds i saw , i got all jelly (jealous)

I guess i just want my PC to look as awesome as theirs but yet as powerful too

I know some might question , if that's the case why built a budget PC in the first place ? It's because i rush it , since FarCry 3 etc is coming out , my old PC couldn't handle it , i couldn't wait , so i just grab everything is cheap yet powerful enough to run all the modern games , so reason being now im slowing upgrading everything to even higher end and better looking (My PC now it's only 4 months old )

 

[Bobnova]

Not all are modular, though these days it's tough to find a non-modular that is multi-rail. Using one plug from each rail is indeed the way to go if faced with an obscenely high draw GPU and low amperage rails. Generally OCP is set to around 30a though.

GPU amperage requirement can be found by taking the TDP (google it, 7870 TDP, you'll find a bunch of results) and dividing by 12 (volts). Watts = volts * amps. GPUs pretty much only use 12v.

Quite personally, I wouldn't touch the PSU if it's working well.
Paint it maybe. That's a very good PSU.

 

[Gh0sT-NoVa]

I see , I will check that out about the amperage thing for GPU.

Speaking of painting PSU , i seen some people uses those Carbon Fibre stickers wrap the case of the PSU , i dare not do such thing , because im not so sure is it ok , will i ending up not able to let the heat on the PSU case to disperse? Since it's all wrap up like that.

http://www.mnpctech.3dpixelnet.com/picture_library/di_noc_3m_carbon_fiber_case_mod_power_supply.jpg

Hell someone even did their Mobo o 0

http://www.mnpctech.3dpixelnet.com/...c_3m_mnpctech_asus_motherboard_sabertooth.jpg

 

[Bobnova]

Nope that would be just fine. The fan and heatsinks will get rid of the heat.
I wouldn't do a mobo, though.

 

[Gh0sT-NoVa]

This is quite off topic , but as i read from BIOS , Mobo seems to have temperature too , that's just shocking when i first saw it...in that case could Mobo overheat ??

And I just got back from the shop , had my Corsair Vengeance exchanged for another pair , ran MemTest86 ( eve 2 stick together at the same time , with 1600mhz ) it passed flawlessly ! Cheers ! I guess i can go on trusting Corsair =p

But Bobnova sorry to go against your advice but im still planning to change another PSU , maybe i will just keep this S12II 620W as a spare for things now lately tend to die easily or gives problem.....

So i went to the shops check , we have new stocks , for HX series , some shops still old....

But can't decide , Corsair / Seasonic....i think Seasonic still best = p ?
Price same , both are at RM 429..both Gold rated , but Corsair is 650W while Seasonic is 660W lol 10W more lol ! Maybe i can run few extra fans XD ?