Does buying large sums of RAM help speed up your computer?

[SPL Tech]

So at first glance one might think that as long as your computer has enough RAM to run whatever applications you want to run, adding more RAM wont do anything useful. However, I recently learned that Windows 7 and 8 uses caching by which the OS will preload commonly used components into the RAM to completely fill the RAM, so that if you create a new process and that new process is cached, it will execute instantly. Likewise, if you open an application that is not already cached, Windows will just dump part of the cache and load your new application into the RAM.

So that begs the question, would adding more RAM than needed (e.g. 16GB or more for a gaming platform) help speed up Windows by allowing Windows to cache more stuff in the RAM, or does the caching not really do that much?

If you are confused with what I am talking about, CRTL ALT DEL and look at the memory values. You will see free, available and cached. Free = not used, cached = used for caching purposes, but available for override, available = free + cached.

 

[EarthDog]

What you are mentioning is called Superfetch. SF does not fill your memory either, at least in my experiences and my uses for a PC (so maybe I should say it doesn't fill MY memory, LOL!). I run 16GB and commonly only see around 10% used at idle and maybe 4GB when gaming for a few hours in BF4.

 

[Blaylock]

To my knowledge this first appeared in Vista. My (CAD) work computer is running Vista with 16GB Ram and it defininately fills all free memory with what it assumes you will use next. I can tell you when it is wrong (usually) it can/will slow you down. This was extremely bad when my system only had 8GB Ram running Catia5 which uses between 4-6GB by itself. 2GB for Vista plus what ever was runing in the background (Endpoint, Outlook, 3DWare, etc..) and it was a recipe for disaster. Catia would hang for 20 mins at a time about every hour. After about a month my boss sat down to "show me something" and was furious with my system (lack of) performance and quickly got IT to correct it (MOAR RAM).


Long story short, the increased Ram has definately helped, but I can still notice a lag when the Ram fills and has to dump before opening a large file.

Side note: My previous employer was running a similar set-up but on Windows 7 and this lag was un-noticeable!



Edit: Added snip of current Performance tab.

 

[EarthDog]

CAD is a different beast all together. You can fill up ram just by using the file itself. Are you sure it was superfetch that was filling the space? Sounds like the CAD file itself was doing most of the damage...

If it was superfetch, it really is an instant swap. When this feature came out, people were complaining they didnt have enough ram as SF was using it. But as was mentioned, it simply flushes the old and puts in the new for SF which is really in an instant considering ram speeds today can refresh its entire capacity at least 1.5x /second when talking high speed DDR3 dual channel memory.

 

[Blaylock]

I can't say for certain if it was SuperFetch causing the issues. I can say the added 8GB of Ram eliminated the massive lag. The issue may have been just an in-adequate amount of ram. Even with the added ram though Vista still fills its cache even when nearly idle but now the "lag" is almost eliminated and not nearly as frustrating.

 

[EarthDog]

Notice in your screenshot only 2.8GB is cached? The rest is being used NOT by the cache...

 

[Blaylock]

To answer the OP's question a little more directly. SuperFetch works off time based routines. If you punch out from work at 5PM every weekday and open Excell to log your hours, Windows will recognize that pattern and just before 5 will dump the unused cache and pre-load the needed Excell data and wait for you. Lets say you get home from work at 6PM every day and go straight on to BF4. Assuming your system is already up, it will preload BF4 data into cache just before 6PM. It is a really genius idea and works great for users on a routine and doesn't seem to hinder users who are not. Also I believe Windows 7 and Window 8/8.1 have improved this feature over Vista.

That being said Superfetch will not help your ingame playing experience unless you are accessing files at routine times. You should however, verify you have enough ram to run everything without lag using the Process and Performance tabs.

Hope this helps clear it up a bit.

 

[Blaylock]

Notice in your screenshot only 2.8GB is cached? The rest is being used NOT by the cache...

LOL yes, I'm hard at work as you can tell.



EDIT: snip added to show idle. Notice the additional 1GB cached even at idle.

 

[Automata]

Does it allow more caching of files? Yes and this will speed up the system. However, if I had the choice between a solid state drive and more memory (that wouldn't be actively used), I'd go for the SSD every time.

To clarify on how much Superfetch uses: it uses as much as possible. Here is my laptop (main system) that I don't play any games on. 26.8 GB available RAM, 26.6 GB cached. The difference is because I'm using programs and it doesn't get filled right away.

 

[EarthDog]

Perhaps it does use more for people that do more? But there is a point of diminishing returns here no? For a user like me for example, who swears it doesn't use all the remaining ram as I really use so few applications on my daily driver, if you are already caching the programs etc that you use will adding more ram and subsequently more SF files in ram help in that case?

 

[Neostarwcc]

No, someone with an 8gb kit can whoop the *** off of someone with a 128gb kit speed wise. This is a common misconception. The only thing large amounts of ram will do is allow you to open more programs, otherwise it's useless and a rookie mistake. It's all about the megahertz baby.

However if you're using all of your ram or almost all of ityou will notice a speed increase getting more capacity, yes. Otherwise, if you want a faster computer you need to upgrade your rams megahertz and not capacity. Hope what I said made sense.

 

[EarthDog]

+1 to most...

Ram speed, at least for gaming and desktop type work, does not matter much if at all (linked that in your other thread). However, some compute heavy tasks do respond well to ram speed increases. But most here do not use such applications really. Even F@H, a compute heavy application, does not respond well at all to memory speed increases.

 

[Neostarwcc]

We're not talking about the fastest or second fastest ram in the world in this topic though. My point is still valid because say if he owned a 800 mhz 16gb kit and upgraded to a 1,600 mhz 16gb kit he would notice a significant speed increase would he not? Otherwise, higher megahertz ram wouldn't exist at all and everyone would just stick to 800 mhz generic ram. After all, you can get a 64gb kit for like $60 and you'd never use 64gb's of capacity in your life (Okay, maybe someday we will but today in 2013 we won't).

What you're saying makes no sense, sorry. Maybe someday I'll understand but for now the higher the megahertz of your ram, the faster it is.

 

[EarthDog]

We're not talking about the fastest or second fastest ram in the world in this topic though. My point is still valid because say if he owned a 800 mhz 16gb kit and upgraded to a 1,600 mhz 16gb kit he would notice a significant speed increase would he not? Otherwise, higher megahertz ram wouldn't exist at all and everyone would just stick to 800 mhz generic ram. After all, you can get a 64gb kit for like $60 and you'd never use 64gb's of capacity in your life (Okay, maybe someday we will but today in 2013 we won't).

What you're saying makes no sense, sorry. Maybe someday I'll understand but for now the higher the megahertz of your ram, the faster it is.

You are correct with that example, but it is a poor one. Here is why...800MHz ram, is DDR2. There isn't 800Mhz DDR3, or if so, nobody is using it. The slowest DDR3 is 1066 IIRC. If you are 1600-2133Mhz, it makes little to no difference in that range. But if you are on 1066 and want to upgrade to 1600-2133Mhz, some gains are there to be had, sure.

Perhaps an analogy would help you understand... Let's say your garden hose spicket outside puts out 1GPM (data rate) with a garden hose attached to it that can handle 1GPM+ (say 1866Mhz ram). The garden hose itself already is not holding anything back. Now, you hook up a fire hose to that spicket (say DDR3 2400Mhz) which can handle say 5GPM (bandwidth). Does the flow of water increase because you hooked up a larger hose? No, it does not. The rate at which the data is being fed to the RAM is the bottleneck essentially, not the bandwidth the ram provides. Even with overclocking the CPU to feed the ram faster, really does not saturate the bandwidth 1600+Mhz ram provides.

Just a note, a lack of understanding the facts (where Mhz increases do matter and do not) does not make what you believe, true.

 

[Blaylock]

Neostarwcc I think your missing the OP'S question though. No one is questioning if faster ram makes your system faster. Will more ram than needed make your system faster? The answer is Basically no.


EDIT: maybe E_D is. Lol. Uh oh, here comes the garden hose analogy again! LMAO

 

[EarthDog]

No, I get it... and addressed the OP's questions in a prior post. I was just correcting Neo. I edited my post to quote him (even though I posted right below him which typically in forums means you are replying to the person directly above).

 

[SeeThruHead]

Neostarwcc I think your missing the OP'S question though. No one is questioning if faster ram makes your system faster. Will more ram than needed make your system faster? The answer is Basically no.


EDIT: maybe E_D is. Lol. Uh oh, here comes the garden hose analogy again! LMAO

Unless used as a ram disk.

 

[Neostarwcc]

Neostarwcc I think your missing the OP'S question though. No one is questioning if faster ram makes your system faster. Will more ram than needed make your system faster? The answer is Basically no.

I answered that too here:

No, someone with an 8gb kit can whoop the *** off of someone with a 128gb kit speed wise. This is a common misconception. The only thing large amounts of ram will do is allow you to open more programs, otherwise it's useless and a rookie mistake

And here:

However if you're using all of your ram or almost all of ityou will notice a speed increase getting more capacity, yes.

The rest was just an offtopic irrelevant debate between EarthDog and myself.

 

[Blaylock]

No, someone with an 8gb kit can whoop the *** off of someone with a 128gb kit speed wise.

OK, so lets assume I'm the rookie. You have 2 identical kits (same clock, same timings, same number of sticks, etc...) and the only difference between the two are the GB's. Please explain how the smaller memory is faster.

 

[EarthDog]

This depends on the how the ranks/banks are setup (there was a thread here on that), actually, but there isn't any whooping *** there either, LOL!

I also think you misunderstood what he was saying... read the next sentence saying that is a common misconception (it was poorly worded, LOL!).