****ed about BTX form factor

[MoreGooder]

Consequences of BTX form factor

It appears that all of this wonderful case modding so that we can see our watercooling goodness will cause people some heartache. That's because the motherboard tray will be on the opposite side of the case when we switch to BTX format (maybe).

Not only does this mean that within the next year or two you will have to upgrade to BTX/PCI Express but you'll also have to buy a new case to fit it all in. Having the mobo on the opposite side would lead us to a case window on the right hand side. That's fine if you wanna swap everything around on your desk, but for me I will never be able to arrange my room and be able to see through a window on the right side.



And, has anyone thought about the implications of the BTX format yet for watercooling?

Let's talk budge here too. My estimates are: New case: $100, New mobo: $150, DDR2: $350, PCI-E Vid card: $400. New PSU for BTX format: $100. Then, to upgrade your waterblocks: CPU W/B: $60, GPU W/B: $50. Assuming you don't want to upgrade hard drives, that brings us to $1210. Expect to pay +/- $200 of that amount if you plan to upgrade in 2005.

Thinking about AMD right about now.....

 

[Speed_Mechanic2]

Wait till BTX actually hits market before you get worked up about it

 

[slater3333uk]

I feel the same way

Think i will get a SFF shuttle for my next pc and w/c that

 

[MoreGooder]

Wait till BTX actually hits market before you get worked up about it

Well, I woudn't be "worked up about it" if I hadn't just completed the best case mod/wc setup I have ever done. Knowing that it's destined for the trash heap is upsetting.

 

[UberBlue]

Nothing is ever permanent in this hobby. Think of every part you've ever owned. How many of them are outdated and in the trash heap?

 

[ZachM]

There is a way to adapt your current PSU to BTX. Someone already wrote a guide. Linkage. There's $100 off the price. One thing I wish they would do with BTX is make it so the back connections and PCI ports are in the same place as ATX. That way you could use an ATX case. Everything else on the motherboard would just be swapped around.

 

[johan851]

Yay, someone else is ****ed off about BTX too!!

What bugs me about it is that it's not really an improvement in the design change - BTX doesn't do anything technology wise that ATX couldn't. It's just a better layout for airflow, so Intel can keep making their retardedly hot processors.

I love my case too...

 

[MoreGooder]

Nothing is ever permanent in this hobby. Think of every part you've ever owned. How many of them are outdated and in the trash heap?

True.... nothing's permanent. But how many times have you been able to use at least part of your system in your upgrade efforts? With BTX nearly everything needs to be replaced. Ok, yeah, you can do something with an ATX PSU, but that's really minor.

If AMD follows the Intel bandwaggon towards BTX then we will have no choice down the road but to shell out the cash if we wanna continue on an upgrade path. The problem I have is that one manufacturer of one component of your computer is sumarily dismissing any other concerns computer users might have with thier total revamp of the form factor. It just ain't right.

For all of you w/c'ing friends out there, where do you think you'll be puting your pump and radiator in a BTX case? Certainly not right in the bottom of the case like you do now. There won't be enough room.

 

[nosilverman]

Also, what possible reason could there be to flip the case around? It wouldnt change temps or anything at all. I also have the same problem with windows, I like having my window, but wouldn't be able to see it on the other side. The thing about putting the cpu and nb in a line seems smart though, but why couldn't mobo makers just do that on a normal atx board?

 

[MoreGooder]

Yeah, I don't understand why it has to be on the other side of the case at all. The exact same design could be accomplished but mirror imaged.

Think about how the mobo and case manufactures must feel about this! Once BTX starts to hit the market, they'll have to change over their tooling ($$$$!) to make a line of cases to accommodate it. Currently, if you look at the steel construction used to make a typical ATX case they can use the same tooling for several different models. Only the paint and plastic parts change frequently. Ahanix is a good example. Their cases are pretty much identical except for the skin. BTX means a total change of tooling from the ground up for case manufacturers.

Mobo manufacturers will also suffer the consequences because the new Intel socket has the pins in the socket. The new Pres-hot processors will have pads on the bottom. This means that bent or broken pins will mean replacement of the mobo. Think of the RMA implications to mobo manufactures. I'm sure they're thrilled.

 

[pauldenton]

iirc colermaster have just unveiled a case that can be used in both ATX and BTX configurations.....

 

[Seven]

One thing I do like about BTX is it does make a cleaner setup for watercooling. If you'll look at the BTX Lian-Li's, the mobo area is MUCH cleaner. Your wires won't be all over the place. In fact, wire management will get much better. I can almost guarantee somebody will build a hybrid air/water block/heatsink to take advantage of the air over the processor. I got my PC-70 for free, so it's not bugging me at all.

Plus, there's a good chance BTX won't become the standard for awhile anyway, so no need to worry. Watercooling systems are highly interchangeable anyway.

 

[MoreGooder]

I'm thinking that for my next "rig" i'm not even going to have a case at all! I'm going to mount everything on the back of my desk, and use external drive enclosures sitting on my desk along with a nice external water cooling rig. Then, it won't matter anymore what changes. All I'll need is a mobo tray and some modding skills. I'm already planning this adventure. Could be fun.

 

[nosilverman]

With the CPU and NB in a line, I wonder if it would be possible to make one long heatsink or waterblock that would cover both of them? It would work as long as there was a standard distance between them, and no caps and other stuff in the way.

 

[IZON]

It must have something to do with the way the BTX mobo's are put together during the manufacturing process; that coupled with a complete ignorance about end user requirements. But I'm sure ignorance can't be blamed entirely, there will probably be new advantages to having the board on the left.

 

[MoreGooder]

... there will probably be new advantages to having the board on the left.

Such as? I can't think of a single advantage of making the board mirror imaged to what it is in ATX.

 

[BladeRunner]

Well I can't be sure if this is a main reason, but way back when pci-express was first touted about, it was said the design would mean the cards are the correct way up for cooling, I thought this would mean mirrored layout like an ISA card, instead of the thermodynamically upside down agp card in an atx tower case.

I didn't for one minute think they would do this by flipping the complete mobo case around, but BTX format it does get pci-express vga the correct way up.

 

[jamesavery22]

Well I can't be sure if this is a main reason, but way back when pci-express was first touted about, it was said the design would mean the cards are the correct way up for cooling, I thought this would mean mirrored layout like an ISA card, instead of the thermodynamically upside down agp card in an atx tower case.

I didn't for one minute think they would do this by flipping the complete mobo case around, but BTX format it does get pci-express vga the correct way up.

Eh I dont think thats really "right" though. If you think about how it is now, you have a vid card with the majority of its cooling being cooled by air from the bottom of the case.

If you flip it around the fan on the GPU is going to be sucking air thats heated by the CPU's heatsink...

Only advantage I see of doing that is that the cards with heatsinks that take up an extra PCI slot wont anymore. Course they wont fit on some boards at all as some dont have any space between the VGA cards and the NB...


The main drive for BTX is money, plain and simple. If there was a real functional reason for flipping the board around we wouldnt have to be here digging for it. They did it just so its impossible to use a BTX board in your current case.

I just pray all the mobo and case manufacturers continue the trent of looking at BTX for what it truely is, a large pile of smelly steamy bull dung.

Link to xbit source page

Foxconn seems to be the only mainboard maker besides Intel who has BTX mainboards and even chassis. No other manufacturers cope with BTX today; to tell you the truth, even Foxconn does not believe the BTX standard will ever become seriously popular

Very glad to hear that.

 

[Seven]

As am I. I think ATX is fine, it's just intel's excuse for producing extremely hot chips. I think ATX Rev. 2 would be better. Window on the left side of the case, still works with ATX mobos, cards that are cooled better, etc.

People just need to make their cases cool better.

 

[rogerdugans]

Well, I gotta say that I am not too worked up about it for a few different reasons:

1) my preferred cases for water cooling are old Pentium-era server cases- usually the AT style. Modding must be done just to get an ATX system in there!
2) my newest chips are XP Palomino cores- I have not seen enough of a performance boost to get me to upgrade to a newer cpu yet.
3) The systems I have (XP Pally cores) should be fast enough to take me through any real NEEDS for another year or two- no real need for me to rush into BTX anyway.
4) Modding is half the fun for me: when I DO start with BTX in a few years, I look forward to the challenge of installing one in an old AT-style case!
5) and last but not least: I already have plans to switch a case around in the near future: my main rig is on the right side of my desk and I expect to have a matching case in the near future. The system going into it will be on the left side of my desk, water cooled, lit and windowed; it is going to need mods to get everything reversed and visible through a window on the "wrong side" of the case.