failing waterpump need some help

[ecthellion]

so i have a thermaltakeThermaltake Pacific DIY LCS PR22-D5 300ml 5-Speed Adjustable D5 Pump/Reservoir Combo 3-Port G 1/4" Thread Tt LCS Certified POM PMMA CL-W082-PL00BL-A pump,a heatkiller iv pro nickel waterblock and an ek coolstream ex radiator, this pump keeps failing, this is a repclacement pump. the first one i bout lasted me about 8 months and i had to rma it and this pump is about 4 months old. it has really bad vibrations at the motor and the pump will eventually start knocking against the pump housing and eventually freeze up. should i go with a different pump? is this pump not suffcient for the radiotor and waterblock im using. im stumped i have no idea why this particular pump keeps failing. i have the same pump on my gpu loop but it does fail and has much less vibrations at the base where the motor is. any thoughts would be aprecaited, i cant figure this one out. thinking about just scrapping teh whole loop and donig a new one

 

[Nebulous]

Just replace the pump. I had a swiftech D5 and it lasted like 10 years. I had 2 brand new Corsair Branded D5's. 1 had a squeal and the other was DOA. No RMA on them as the Swiftech was over 10 years old and Corsair branded one they refused/honor the warranty claiming they were from kits. So I would have to RMA the entire kit, which I did not have because I purchased the pumps on clearance sale from Corsair. I have an ongoing personal issue with corsair which I won't go into detail here. Now I'm running a Lowara D5 pump in my current loop. Has been rock solid for over 5 years and 3 builds and I bought it used from a reputable member here. I'm sure a new D5 will clear the issue. It's alot cheaper than going the whole new loop route Pumps now are more of a expendable part since they're cheap. By the time you need a RMA, it's past it's age.

 

[ecthellion]

ok, i was eyeballing some eheim pumps, i dont know what it is but the pump i put onto my cpu cooling loop has really bad vibrations to it. not sure if its thermaltake or just luck of the draw with these pumps, they just seem to be failing way too fast. also i have been looking for an excuse to redo waterloop, never really like the thermaltake stuff but i got this cause it was a pump/res combo. thinking about going back to something a bit more custom.

 

[ecthellion]

also i dont understand why this particular set up has such bad vibrations at the pump motor, not makin much sense to me

 

[maxfly]

It sounds like the impellar is failing which is causing the pump rotor to rub or wobble or its overtightened and rubbing against the res housing. All 3 of my d5s run smooth without any noticable vibrations. My xspc d5 has the speed controller on the bottom and it is vibration free.
Your other loop components arent going to cause the pump to fail. Altho theres a slim chance the res is poorly designed and is causing the pump to rub if maybe the oring is bad but thats not likely. A bad oring would cause a leak. Then again it could cause the pump to rub if its tightened too far but even then the threads shouldnt allow it to be so tight as to make it rub. Do you remember if you had to really tighten them down tight to seat them? If so you could try backing them off a quarter turn and test. Be sure to put a towel under it in case it leaks. If it does just retighten it and dry it back off really well.
The only way to be sure is to see what the inside of your pumps look like. If you post some pictures of them we should be able to tell whats happening.
If they check out then thats not bad luck its poor manufacturing. It sounds like those are some bad d5s made for tt or by tt. You could probably get them rmaed but i dont know if thats even a good idea. Having 2 tt d5 pumps die so quickly(3 if your gpu pump is doing the same) makes me believe your just getting bad pumps from tt. I wouldnt take any chances. I would get them out of your loop asap( once youve tried backing them off).
Do your pumps have any stickers on the bottom where the control knob is? If so what do they have printed on them? Can you post a picture once you get them pulled?

 

[ecthellion]

It sounds like the impellar is failing which is causing the pump rotor to rub or wobble or its overtightened and rubbing against the res housing. All 3 of my d5s run smooth without any noticable vibrations. My xspc d5 has the speed controller on the bottom and it is vibration free.
Your other loop components arent going to cause the pump to fail. Altho theres a slim chance the res is poorly designed and is causing the pump to rub if maybe the oring is bad but thats not likely. A bad oring would cause a leak. Then again it could cause the pump to rub if its tightened too far but even then the threads shouldnt allow it to be so tight as to make it rub. Do you remember if you had to really tighten them down tight to seat them? If so you could try backing them off a quarter turn and test. Be sure to put a towel under it in case it leaks. If it does just retighten it and dry it back off really well.
The only way to be sure is to see what the inside of your pumps look like. If you post some pictures of them we should be able to tell whats happening.
If they check out then thats not bad luck its poor manufacturing. It sounds like those are some bad d5s made for tt or by tt. You could probably get them rmaed but i dont know if thats even a good idea. Having 2 tt d5 pumps die so quickly(3 if your gpu pump is doing the same) makes me believe your just getting bad pumps from tt. I wouldnt take any chances. I would get them out of your loop asap( once youve tried backing them off).
Do your pumps have any stickers on the bottom where the control knob is? If so what do they have printed on them? Can you post a picture once you get them pulled?

yea, i can take some pics. its a cylinder rez that sits right on top of the actuall pump. tt is sending me out a couple more but this same thing happened when i had an xspc res/rad combo it was cylindrical as well. i didnt put it together it came pre assembled. still tryin to figure out why it keeps happeneing. tryin to see what pumps to get so this wont happen, seem to keep gettting bad d5 pumps from both xspc and thermaltake. i did have the hoses reversed in one of builds so the water was flowing in reverse, not sure if that could have damaged something in the cpu waterblock

 

[ecthellion]

is it possible that i could have damaged something inside the waterblock as i did have the in and outs of the water flow reversed for a few months, it was something i overlooked until i put these news pumps in, was an error on my part

 

[maxfly]

is it possible that i could have damaged something inside the waterblock as i did have the in and outs of the water flow reversed for a few months, it was something i overlooked until i put these news pumps in, was an error on my part

no that would only effect your temps, you didnt break them. the worst that would do is cause your temps to go up. something is wrong with the pumps themselves. you didnt happen to run them dry did you? that or over-tightening the pump to the res are really the only way you could have been the reason they are dying. from what you described theres something wrong with the pumps. what that is, we wont know until we see the impellers and rotors on those pumps.

 

[ecthellion]

ok, i will post pics of it tomrrow sometime, i have new rmaed pumps coming from tt. i didnt tighten anything on these pumps its an all in one pump res combo and comes preassembled from the factory. i didnt run them dry either, i made sure they had water in them before turning them on. since there should be no damage to the waterblock im going to take it apart and clean it as well. make sure theres no metal shavings in it from this pump.

 

[maxfly]

Cool, hopefully we will be able to help you figure out whats going on. Dont get me wrong, im not inferring that you did anything to damage them. Im just covering all the bases. I doubt they would accuse you of anything but this way you are prepared if tt says its your fault.
The reason i asked about the stickers on the bottom of the pumps was twofold. 1 to find out who made them(so we can avoid them) and 2 to see if there are any kind of lot number or serial numbers etc. that may give us an idea as to whether or not theres a bad batch of pumps. If your new pumps serial or lot #s happen to match up with the defective pumps it gives you the opportunity to refuse to use them and either ask for a different lot or get a refund.
Thats a good idea to check your block for shavings. You definitely dont want crud getting recycled into your new pumps.

 

[ecthellion]

so i opened my heatkiller waterblock for my cpu and the cooling fins on it where all gunked up with some type of black looking stuff, i took a toothbrush with some dawn and distilled white vinegar and gave it a goo scrub and after words soaked everything in vineager, not sure where the growth is coming from i have distille water and pt nuke running through my system, not sure why there would be growth with pt nuke running through the loop. getting a new rad because i have been wanting one of alphacools for a while know, when i get the new rad thinking about running a mixture of distilled water and vinegar through the loop for like 15 mins then doing a good flush. outt of curiosity how do you guys flush your loops. seems to take me a while to do it. shouldnt pt nuke just kill everything inside the loop as well?

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[maxfly]

Well its a laing d5 lol. I dont remember seeing a goulds pump before but its been a while since i researched the different laing manufacturers. Ill have to try and track them down. Regardless i wouldnt use another one in your loop. Theres definitely something wrong with how they were built to have failed in the same way twice and so quickly. They should last a minimum of 5 years and easily into the 7 to 10 range.
The black stuff in your block is the metal from the rotor scraping against the stainless steel housing. I cant tell for sure but it looks like the impellar(small white ball the rotor sits on) is either ground down on one side or its the angle of the pictures. Whats obvious is the rotor has been scraping up against the inside of the pump housing(the stainless steel) creating all of the black crud. Thats also what was causing the noise. Your coolant wasnt the reason for the failure it was mechanical. The rotor is supposed to be lubricated by the coolant. Basically there should be water in between the rotor(the magnetic part you pulled out) and the ss housing. The rotor should never actually touch anything but should ride on top of the impellar as the pump runs. Something obviously caused the pump to fail which resulted in the black mess in your cpu block and the scrape marks in your pump.
Its a pita but you have to pull your loop apart and clean everything. Otherwise that black crap will be redistributed through out yor loop again and could cause your new pump to fail. I use CLR to clean my rads and blocks(dont worry its safe to use). Pour it straight into the rad until full. shake it up really well. let it sit for 5 or 10 minutes. Shake it up again then drain it out into a bowl. Using a bowl for the first rinse will show how much gunk was in it. Keep rinsing it out until no more bubbles or dirty water comes out(i also clean new rads this way). With blocks, i take them apart and submerge the block in clr. Wait 5 or 10 minutes and rinse it off. You may want to use a toothbrush on the block where its dirtiest as soon as you put it in the clr. Basically if clr doesnt get it off it wont come off short of sanding. If the top is metal follow the same process. If its delrin acrylic etc just scrub it really well with a toothbrush and rinse well. I would get new tubing as well. The dirt in your loop will create a film that will coat the inside of the tubing. If its reused it will be redistributed through out your loop.
Personally i wouldnt touch another tt pump/res at this point. Theres definitely a manufacturing flaw thats causing these failures. But...if you dont have any other options and have to use one. make sure you pull the new pump and res apart. check that the impellar is perfectly round and the rotor doesnt feel out of balance and doesnt have any flat spots. Check that the housing is scratch free. It shouldnt have any marks on it. If any of that doesnt check out dont use it.
If you need anymore help or advise dont hesitate to ask! GL

 

[Zerileous]

Wow, that is one jacked up pump! I'm wondering if metal from the first failure remained in the loop and caused the second failure. Either way causes one to question the "all Laing pumps are the same" perception. Everything will have to be seriously broken down and cleaned for sure.