First time watercooling. Would love someone to look over my part choices.

[Conumdrum]

Those HS fans you want for low low speed control you need to mod them to PWM. In our cooling forum.

There is such things as overkill and wasted money so you don't need 5400 rpm fans

 

[tsukasa]

Those HS fans you want for low low speed control you need to mod them to PWM. In our cooling forum.

There is such things as overkill and wasted money so you don't need 5400 rpm fans

Yea i saw i need to mod them just a bit of soldering tho. I do tend toward overkill when I do anything involving computers. Would Scythe Gentle Typhoon 120mm x 25mm Fan - 3000 RPM (D1225C12B7AP-29) be less overkill?

 

[Conumdrum]

Yes, but if your gonna do HS fans get the 5400 ones and do the PWM mod and get a PWM controller for them.

 

[bassnut]

If I am understanding the information on http://martinsliquidlab.org/ it looks like the higher the rpm fan i use the better any rad performs. I figured i could just turn them up and down using a fan controller but have them if I want them or am I over estimating the usefulness of a fan controller?

Yes and no ..... it is all dependent on your choice of rads. In this case with the rads you have chosen, they do not need the rpm as compared to a rad with a real dense fin count where the higher rpm is needed to help push it through but even then there is a limit on how effective this can be as there is a limit of how much heat you can actually remove with each rad.

Those fans would drive you nuts after a while and then they would be in a box sitting in your closet just like my 55mm fans are now. From one guy who tends to lean towards overkill to another. Without the PWM mod of course .....

 

[tsukasa]

Yes and no ..... it is all dependent on your choice of rads. In this case with the rads you have chosen, they do not need the rpm as compared to a rad with a real dense fin count where the higher rpm is needed to help push it through but even then there is a limit on how effective this can be as there is a limit of how much heat you can actually remove with each rad.

Those fans would drive you nuts after a while and then they would be in a box sitting in your closet just like my 55mm fans are now. From one guy who tends to lean towards overkill to another. Without the PWM mod of course .....

What about http://www.frozencpu.com/products/1...n_-_150_CFM_FFB1212EH-PWM.html?tl=g36c365s936
or
http://www.frozencpu.com/products/8..._Fan_-_11311_CFM_AFC1212D.html?tl=g36c365s936 .
Just as loud I know but comes with the pwm already so no modding and I know delta makes great fans just need to figure out how to run 11 fans on one controller.

 

[Conumdrum]

If I am understanding the information on http://martinsliquidlab.org/ it looks like the higher the rpm fan i use the better any rad performs. I figured i could just turn them up and down using a fan controller but have them if I want them or am I over estimating the usefulness of a fan controller?

Yes, you are correct. You are a follower of basic Physics. Look at the heat dispersion curves. Err, the charts. Look at high FPI rads vs low FPI rads. Look at MANY RADS at Martins and Skinnees. You see low FPI rads can remove heat at low (quiet) fannage and the curve of dissipation drops off as fannage increases. Look at high FPI rads. At low speeds they don't do too well but they begin to shine at high (over 2000 RPM, when noise is an issue).

Under 1200 RPM quality fans is quietttt.

This stuff is more complicated than you thought eh? Your learning and doing well, you just have to digest it.

That's why I stress doing your homework for a LONGGG time and becoming a VERY frequent regular here first. I read and researched for 3 MONTHS before I bought one WC part. But that was back in 2007.........

Your doing fine.......... Don't overthink it.

 

[bassnut]

There are guys on here that love the deltas and recommend them whenever they can. That being said there is a reason that the GT AP-15'sare so popular and that is because they do the job very well and quietly. For some when they have a great preforming loop and cant hear it running ..... well that is music to their ears. Conumdrum really advocates to that way of doing it, I tend to like the more is better thinking but slowly have been coming over to his side. There are a few different versions of the AP-15s as we have already discussed and I am not the one putting out to pay the bill in the end it is up to you to make the choice of what you would like to use. We are just hear to answer your questions and try and guide you.

I think you will be well served with some AP-15's but If you are dead set on using the High Speed fans check these out at Performance PCS. They are already modded for PWM for you. There has been some discussion about the way they have done this to work off the motherboard fan header and the possibility of drawing too much power through the header if you hook up too many of them and fry the fan header. I am sure Conumdrum can shed more light on this when he pops back in.

http://www.performance-pcs.com/cata...oduct_info&cPath=36_407_696&products_id=36550

http://www.performance-pcs.com/cata...oduct_info&cPath=36_407_696&products_id=36549

http://www.performance-pcs.com/cata...oduct_info&cPath=36_407_696&products_id=36548

I am not trying to recommend these fans just pointing them out. There is more homework for you here to see if you can run them safely off your motherboard fan header or find a pwm splitter cable that will allow you to draw power from a 4 pin molex but control them from your motherboard fan header.

 

[Conumdrum]

bassnut, there is only one type of AP-15 fans. Please enlighten me on the other ones if I'm wrong. For example there is the AP-30 fans. Maybe you haven't kept up with that.

You linked no AP-15 fans. AP 29, 30, 31 fans is what you linked.

 

[tsukasa]

There are guys on here that love the deltas and recommend them whenever they can. That being said there is a reason that the GT AP-15'sare so popular and that is because they do the job very well and quietly. For some when they have a great preforming loop and cant hear it running ..... well that is music to their ears. Conumdrum really advocates to that way of doing it, I tend to like the more is better thinking but slowly have been coming over to his side. There are a few different versions of the AP-15s as we have already discussed and I am not the one putting out to pay the bill in the end it is up to you to make the choice of what you would like to use. We are just hear to answer your questions and try and guide you.

I think you will be well served with some AP-15's but If you are dead set on using the High Speed fans check these out at Performance PCS. They are already modded for PWM for you. There has been some discussion about the way they have done this to work off the motherboard fan header and the possibility of drawing too much power through the header if you hook up too many of them and fry the fan header. I am sure Conumdrum can shed more light on this when he pops back in.

http://www.performance-pcs.com/cata...oduct_info&cPath=36_407_696&products_id=36550

http://www.performance-pcs.com/cata...oduct_info&cPath=36_407_696&products_id=36549

http://www.performance-pcs.com/cata...oduct_info&cPath=36_407_696&products_id=36548

I am not trying to recommend these fans just pointing them out. There is more homework for you here to see if you can run them safely off your motherboard fan header or find a pwm splitter cable that will allow you to draw power from a 4 pin molex but control them from your motherboard fan header.

Thank you for the warning I had seen a little on it but was unsure however at this point i am already looking into a dedicated fan controller. Just need to find a good one that can handle the load with the limited number of bays I have to work with.
Thank you for the links as well I have been looking primarily on frozencpu.com so I had not seen the premoded ones.
Also I should add it will be at least a month before I start building it so this is me trying to plan it out.

 

[bassnut]

Cool.... then you have lots of time to do your homework. enjoy

 

[RnRollie]

Surface is everything get an external 1280 MO-RA and you can use almost any normal fan

For other normal "in-case" RADs like 360s , as long as you keep (well) below 20 FPI you can get away with most fans although PWM AP-15s or NB eLOOPS are your best bet because they have good performance/noise balance.

CFM or RPM alone does not mean a thing; there are fans out there which will run at +6000 RPM and 300 CFM , but provide less that 1/8 inch H2O pressure.

Above 20 FPI (like Black Ice) and thick rads (like the UT80 Monster) you definitely need pressure. Preferable over 1 inch H2O.
And thus the playing field of "normal" fans becomes very very limited. At that point you are entering the noisy Delta territory. And you'll quickly find there are no 12v fans you can use without frying your MB header or fan controller because of the amps they pull.

In that case, i'ld say to get it over with and just go for ADDA, Sunon, Delta, pappst in the 24 to 48 volt category with a dedicated powersource (eg Meanwell) or running on plain mains power - let the real monsters out of the closet

Ideally, for a LOT of pressure with good CFM you'ld be looking at radial fans "squirrelcages" with forward swept fan blades... like the kind used in HVAC.
Of course, fitting a 1 feet tall , 5 lbs squirrel fan in a PC case is a bit unpractical

 

[RnRollie]

..... Just need to find a good one that can handle the load with the limited number of bays I have to work with.
.....

Very limited choice! Do not believe the 50 Watts per channel with bling-bling-sing-and-dance advertisments. The best you can pull from 12volts without cooled step-up circuitery is 7 Watts. And not even that if it is a bad design.

To handle the big boys , the safest way is something like mCubed t-balancer, Alpha HeatMaster, AC poweradjust, Koolance CTR. Thou, i've heard that the BitFenix Recon is also capable of a few things

A reason why you should go for PWM fans whenever possible: with a decent PWM fan splitter you can run the fans of the PSU directly and only the tach a pulse is connected to the MB header. And thus your fancontroller becomes your MB wihtout the usual worries

 

[tsukasa]

Very limited choice! Do not believe the 50 Watts per channel with bling-bling-sing-and-dance advertisments. The best you can pull from 12volts without cooled step-up circuitery is 7 Watts. And not even that if it is a bad design.

To handle the big boys , the safest way is something like mCubed t-balancer, Alpha HeatMaster, AC poweradjust, Koolance CTR. Thou, i've heard that the BitFenix Recon is also capable of a few things

A reason why you should go for PWM fans whenever possible: with a decent PWM fan splitter you can run the fans of the PSU directly and only the tach a pulse is connected to the MB header. And thus your fancontroller becomes your MB wihtout the usual worries

So the rampage 4 extreme has 4 pwm fan headers each at 1amp so the fans can't be powered by them if I am understanding correctly. What would be considered a good splitter in this case to power them by molex but control them with pwm?

If I am understand the specs of these correctly with mCubed t-balancer I can run 2 fans per channel with the splitter for a total of 6 fans per device to to max amp limit or with Alpha HeatMaster 1 fan per channel 4 per device.So I need 2 mCubed t-balancer or 3 Alpha HeatMaster. Is this correct?

 

[RnRollie]

if you would run multiple fans of the MB header it could burn the header although 1 amp is better as most board do
Anyways, the AKASA AK-CB002 would work as PWM splitter with power from a traditional molex... but its a bit .... ugly. But i think they have a sleeved 5 fan splitter also.. this one running off a SATA power.

for the mCubed & such, i dont know the limits from the top of my head, but it sounds about right .. OHMs & AMPEREs laws prevail

ah, it all depends on choice of fans and how many.. the mCubed & HM3 can take some load.. as long as the total WAtts/Amps is below the max of the controller, you are ok. (which means that you could probably run a daisychain of 10 "low-power" fans of a 20 watts source , but only two or tree Delta's

 

[Conumdrum]

Fan control for multiple PWM.

Get this.

http://www.swiftech.com/8-waypwmsplitter.aspx

 

[tsukasa]

Fan control for multiple PWM.

Get this.

http://www.swiftech.com/8-waypwmsplitter.aspx

Thank you that is one of the ones i was looking at but was unsure if it could handle the load.

Slightly updated shopping list:

a. Res : EK-RES X3 250 Reservoir
b. Pump : Swiftech MCP655 Special Edition 12 VDC Pump With Speed Controller
c. Cpu block: Koolance CPU-380I Water Block (Intel Processor)

d. Rads
i. Swiftech "eXtreme Performance" Triple 120mm Radiator
ii. Swiftech "eXtreme Performance" Single 120mm Radiator
iii. Alphacool NexXxoS Monsta 240 Radiator

e. Fans
i. 8 fans Scythe Gentle Typhoon 120 mm by Nidec Servo Corp. - 1000-5400 PWM Fan - Sleeved
ii. 2 Akasa Viper S-Flow 120mm fan(case fans)
iii. Swiftech 8-Way PWM Splitter Box

f. Fittings
i. Bitspower Ultimate G 1/4 Thread 1/2" ID x 3/4" OD Compression Fitting - Silver Shining (BP-CPF-CC5)
ii. Bitspower G1/4" Silver Shining Dual Rotary 45-Degree Compression Fitting CC5 For ID 1/2" OD 3/4" Tube (BP-45R2CPF-CC5)
iii. Bitspower G1/4 Thread 90-Degree Rotary 1/2" ID x 3/4" OD Compression Fitting (BP-90R3CPF-CC5)
iv. Bitspower Deep Blood Red Y-Block Fitting With Triple G1/4" Ports (drain line)

g. Tubing
i. Masterkleer PVC Tubing 1/2" ID / 3/4" OD - 10ft Retail Pack - UV Pink
ii. Masterkleer PVC Tubing 1/2" ID / 3/4" OD - 10ft Retail Pack - UV Purple

h. Misc
i. IandH Silver KillCoils - Antimicrobial .999 Fine Silver Tubing / Reservoir Strip
ii. Phobya HeGrease Extreme Thermal Paste - 3.5g
iii. Koolance Threaded Rubber Funnel - G1/4" Thread (LIQ-FNL)


Which is better a pump/res combo or 2 separate pieces?

Also Swiftech "eXtreme Performance" 240 vs Alphacool NexXxoS Monsta 240 Radiator the alphacool should yield greater benefit because it is 80mm thick correct?

Also the tubing is confusing me now it appears to be the same tubing but frozencpu lists it at 3/4 inch outer diameter and performancepc lists it at 5/8 od and i can't seam to figure out which is right.(solved)

 

[RnRollie]

ooh yeah the AC Nex Monsta can dissipate A LOT... if you can get the airflow. Might need to go push-pull the get the most out of it... but then you are looking at a package which is at worse +/- 160 mm think (80 rad + (2x 38mm fans) and at minimum 105 mm (80 + 25) thick, not counting shrouds or antivibration spacers

But the best that the alphacool rads have going is the freedom they offers because the number of ports available

Then again, the swiftech tend to have a better finish

 

[Conumdrum]

Thank you that is one of the ones i was looking at but was unsure if it could handle the load.

Slightly updated shopping list:

a. Res : EK-RES X3 250 Reservoir
b. Pump : Swiftech MCP655 Special Edition 12 VDC Pump With Speed Controller
c. Cpu block: Koolance CPU-380I Water Block (Intel Processor)

d. Rads
i. Swiftech "eXtreme Performance" Triple 120mm Radiator
ii. Swiftech "eXtreme Performance" Single 120mm Radiator
iii. Alphacool NexXxoS Monsta 240 Radiator

e. Fans
i. 8 fans Scythe Gentle Typhoon 120 mm by Nidec Servo Corp. - 1000-5400 PWM Fan - Sleeved
ii. 2 Akasa Viper S-Flow 120mm fan(case fans)
iii. Swiftech 8-Way PWM Splitter Box

f. Fittings
i. Bitspower G1/4 Thread 90-Degree Rotary 1/2" ID x 5/8" OD Compression Fitting (BP-90R3CPF-CC4)
ii. Bitspower G1/4" Silver Shining Dual Rotary 45-Degree Compression Fitting CC3 For ID 3/8" OD 5/8" Tube (BP-45R2CPF-CC3) Wrong size?
iii. Bitspower Premium G1/4" Shiny Silver High Flow 1/2"ID (5/8" OD) Compression Fitting
iv. Bitspower Deep Blood Red Y-Block Fitting With Triple G1/4" Ports (drain line)

g. Tubing
i. Masterkleer Hose PVC 15.9/12.7mm (1/2"ID) UV-Reactive Pink 3.3m (10ft) "Retail Package"
ii. Masterkleer Hose PVC 15.9/12.7mm (1/2"ID) UV-Reactive Purple 3.3m (10ft) "Retail Package"

h. Misc
i. IandH Silver KillCoils - Antimicrobial .999 Fine Silver Tubing / Reservoir Strip
ii. Phobya HeGrease Extreme Thermal Paste - 3.5g
iii. Koolance Threaded Rubber Funnel - G1/4" Thread (LIQ-FNL)


Which is better a pump/res combo or 2 separate pieces?

Not much diff. Looks mainly and case constraints.

Also Swiftech "eXtreme Performance" 240 vs Alphacool NexXxoS Monsta 240 Radiator the alphacool should yield greater benefit because it is 80mm thick correct?

Also the tubing is confusing me now it appears to be the same tubing but frozencpu lists it at 3/4 inch outer diameter and performancepc lists it at 5/8 od and i can't seam to figure out which is right.

You have to have it exact in size no matter what for compression fittings. One of them is wrong.

 

[tsukasa]

I think I have most everything planned out now. Just waiting on blocks to come out for the pair of gtx 780 I ordered today then I think it may be time to start building. May go with a pump top res still debating that choice.

 

[Conumdrum]

Using the D5 still? Look up the Monsoon.