Formula-z and FX-9590. Hangs and Freezing.

[ShrimpBrime]

FOR THOSE WITH AMBIENT COOLING AND HANG/FREEZE ISSUE

OK, I did some research on this set up as I encounter Freezing and hangs. This is a common issue with this particular setup from what I read. And I've been trying to figure out WHY.

Oh man oh man. underclock it freezes I read..... ya that happens.

Overclock and it Freezes, ya that happens too!!

WHY?

Well after some testing here and there, Thinking this is figured out.

First let me start with Pstates generated through Cpu-z post here and a small explanation as to what your problem may be.

Processor 1 ID = 0
Number of cores 8 (max 8)
Number of threads 8 (max 8)
Name AMD FX-9590
Codename Vishera
Specification AMD FX(tm)-9590 Eight-Core Processor
Package Socket AM3+ (942)
CPUID F.2.0
Extended CPUID 15.2
Core Stepping OR-C0
Technology 32 nm
TDP Limit 219.8 Watts
Core Speed 1404.7 MHz
Multiplier x Bus Speed 7.0 x 200.7 MHz
Rated Bus speed 2608.7 MHz
Stock frequency 4700 MHz
Instructions sets MMX (+), SSE, SSE2, SSE3, SSSE3, SSE4.1, SSE4.2, SSE4A, x86-64, AMD-V, AES, AVX, XOP, FMA3, FMA4
L1 Data cache 8 x 16 KBytes, 4-way set associative, 64-byte line size
L1 Instruction cache 4 x 64 KBytes, 2-way set associative, 64-byte line size
L2 cache 4 x 2048 KBytes, 16-way set associative, 64-byte line size
L3 cache 8 MBytes, 64-way set associative, 64-byte line size
FID/VID Control yes
Min FID 7.0x
# of P-States 7
P-State FID 0x22 - VID 0x02 - IDD 18 (25.00x - 1.525 V)
P-State FID 0x1F - VID 0x02 - IDD 18 (23.50x - 1.525 V)
P-State FID 0x1D - VID 0x02 - IDD 18 (22.50x - 1.525 V)
P-State FID 0x18 - VID 0x0B - IDD 14 (20.00x - 1.412 V)
P-State FID 0x12 - VID 0x15 - IDD 11 (17.00x - 1.287 V)
P-State FID 0x8 - VID 0x25 - IDD 7 (12.00x - 1.087 V)
P-State FID 0x10C - VID 0x35 - IDD 4 (7.00x - 0.887 V)

As you can see above, this cpu recommends a cpu voltage of 1.525v @ only a 22.5x multiplier. That's only 4500mhz on a cpu that rated stock of a 23.5x multiplier.

OK. Lets say you post stock. All the power savings are on and stuff, you want to load test at stock.

Take note the horrible horrible v-droop at stock, mine drops down to as little as 1.416v roughly. When disable the Cool and quiet and C6, the board still has a horrible v-drop, mine is reporting still on load 1.416v

At idle, it goes as high as 1.5000v. scratching my head, I wanted to eliminate that droop. So I try and run say 1.5000v @4.7ghz 23.5 x 200. @ load again, this cpu drops v-core pretty hard.

OK, so let's up the LLC or Load Line Calibration. Now, we are running 1.5000v set manually and stays pretty stable.

BUT now the issue becomes heat and still an under-volt at 4.7ghz Pstate requesting 1.5250v.

Uhg. now we run hot hot hot. Gets difficult to control this bad boy FX-9590.

Pulling my hairs out, bumping and bumping voltage up and up creates more heat, thus instant instability.

But hey, the temp readout says we are still in the green and the PC still freezes. Well, I found the freeze happens instantly at load most times while trying to stability test.

My answer to that is still v-droop or just simply not enough voltage.

OK. Now we have established an issue with fighting the boards volt drop problem vs the Cpu's heat out put problem.

So there's a couple of cures, not for sure deals as all of your systems similar to mine will vary in temps voltage and v-drop.

The conclusion to this is quite simple.

A. The board is simply dropping too much voltage to keep stable as you try and load test it, or Core 0 just isn't happy with that type of out come.

B. Cooling is inadequate.

It's basically as simple as that. This particular set up is VERY VERY picky on how it's overclocked because of the Very little head room with temps and that v-droop issue.

In a nut shell, if you plan on buying this setup, be ready for both issues as they WILL occur.

Recommended solutions.

1. leave the board set up on stock and enjoy the v-droop. You'll find load testing even at stock green on, this chip generates massive heat. And I do mean massive. If your not running enough cooling forget it.

2. This setup is intended for massive voltage and massive cooling. What I mean by this is it's designed fully and solely for LN2. You'll find that out when you discover that this thing has a switch for LN2 runs as it's a supposed cure for cold bugs which FX processors don't have in the first place. This has been proven on a very wide range of FX processors and motherboards.

3. Don't by the FX-9590. It's just too hot. Meant to run big mean clocks with big mean voltage and big mean cooling. Buy a lower watt FX cpu.

/quick report. If I have something to add later down the road, you may find it posted here.

Have a nice day/evening!

 

[RGone]

FOR THOSE WITH AMBIENT COOLING AND HANG/FREEZE ISSUE

3. Don't by the FX-9590. It's just too hot. Buy a lower watt FX cpu.

That #3 is what we have told users for however long the FX-9590 and FX-9370 have been for sale.

There is one huge arse difference between the cooling an FX 8 core needs at 4.0GHz default speed for an FX-8350 and the cooling needed for a default speed of around 4.7GHz. in the beginning, we who had the FX-8350 knew we needed cooling to move upward to 4.7GHz from down at 4.0GHz, but when the default speed of FX-9590 is our overclocked daily user speed...well h*ll that demand for cooling is lost due to how the human mind works.

The next major reason, I for one, told people to leave those higher dollar cpus alone was that they had ZERO more overclock head room in their higher dollar silicon. Pretty dang hefty water cooling would not get more Max Cpu speed from a more costly FX-9590 than an FX-8350 in general. Sure there might have been a few exceptions to the rule but those exceptions only happen to the lucky or go unnoticed by those who don't try for such overclock anyway.

There have only been two of you regulars that have tried regularly the FX-9xxx series. Johan45 went first with an FX-9370 and got a shade more max cpu speed beause he had a pig of an FX-8350. And now you S_B with one FX-9590 that died and now its' replacement and you under or in daily circumstances are not giving off a glowing picture of the FX-9590.

And without any form of reservations, I can easily concur with the previous statement you made. S_B said > 3. Don't by the FX-9590. It's just too hot. Buy a lower watt FX cpu.

No extra headroom in FX-9xxx cpus than in lesser rated FX-8 core cpus and HOT all the time. I got it. I have had it. But you know how the mind is. Well shett they sell the FX-9590 in combo with a board most of us would not even consider...so it must work okay or dang look how close in price the Big Bad HOT Boy is in price to the lesser rated cpus...shett shett give me some. Hehehe.

I want me one of the newer FX-8350s that runs 4.8GHz on the same voltage I used to use on my earlier FX-8350 at 4.6GHz and have a much more managable ALL 8 cores on @4.8GHz for daily use. Now that tempts me even on a forgotten cpu and platform. Talk about the mind.

RGone...

 

[Mandrake4565]

Shrimpy thank you for writing this, a lot of people just cannot grasp how much cooling you need to run these 8 core Fx chips. Especially when talking the 9xxx stock clocks of 4.7 with 1.5xx Cpu voltage will overwhelm nearly any cooling except a full custom loop. The sole reason I run my chip at 4.7 is because the heat generated/voltage needed at even 4.8 is just silly and I'm on a full loop with a 3x120 rad that's 60mm thick using 6 fans in push pull. Mate that 9590 onto anything other then a top tier motherboard and the issues just compound themselves. Again tanks for posting some tangible evidence of what we have been trying to tell people that want to buy these E Peen chips.

 

[bassnut]

Great write up SB....... so true so true but the sad part is that the average user coming through here will not take the advice to heart. Hopefully this will help a bit more people understand the FX 8 core CPU requirements, maybe it's the rain out here today but I have my doubts.

 

[Mandrake4565]

the sad part is that the average user coming through here will not take the advice to heart.

QFT Bassnut!!!!!

 

[Witchdoctor]

These CPU's seem like they would be fun to freeze

 

[Mandrake4565]

These CPU's seem like they would be fun to freeze

I Think Shrimpy has already?!?

 

[Johan45]

These CPU's seem like they would be fun to freeze

Full pot benching W_D and they love their volts man.

 

[Nebulous]

Dam good info Shrimpy, excellent write up. I vote stick

 

[ShrimpBrime]

Thanks for the kind words fellas.

@ RGone.

The post was mostly directed at those whom already purchased this set up and the additional comment of not buying one if you haven't already.

When I first got this set up, I was trying to figure out wtf was going on when simple adjustments in bios would cause this chip to hang up. I already knew why people "should not buy" this particular type of cpu and motherboard set up as I am an overclocker just as you are. In some cases, I've gone a little more extreme than others, fully understand the overclocking rules do's and dont's.

But, it sometimes can be as simple as taking v-core off auto and increase bus clocks 4 clicks. What happens here is the Cpu looses it's ability do down-clock some cores and the voltage is stable. Mine will set and sit 1.5v. OK well, now all cores are running top speed and the Cpu demands more voltage. Far beyond that of what a normal user can cool. It's just not a stable chip while Cool and Quiet plus C6 are turned off automatically. No need to manually set this up, while the motherboards bios does this for you in most cases (not always).

I've found very few tweaks to actually be found usable in a daily situation.

One is two literally shut down four cores. If you have a decent water loop, this type of overclocking will actually get you somewhere. 5ghz stable 1.5250v, cool-able, and plenty fast for gaming. It would be like pretending to turn of HT on an Intel chip. Less heat more epeen.

Another is to Keep under 1.5v while loaded with clocks ranging from 4.7ghz to about 4.9ghz. Not an easy venture..... I will say the secret is to actually leave green on.

Also writing this experiencing no chilling (But is available, you know that...) but honest good daily work, I've been letting the wife take it places on the web while I'm at work. Simple things like virtual servers and daily type stuff, including and not limited to heavy gaming..... Where most guys build their PC's based on the games they like to play. And for this, you can actually crank some Mhz, not typically past 5ghz. And at this point, we can say that not even a current release FX-8350 (on the average) is going to sit without know how and some late nights tweaking and testing.

So now through further reading here at this very forum, it seems that 4.7ghz would be a fine clocked speed on any chip, for daily use and gaming.

Now, the processor isn't the only culprit in the greater math of things..... This Asus Formula-z is no joke. Lemme explain please.

I've encountered a few odds and ends with this board that are quirky, perhaps finicky?

On high memory and cpu clocks, this board will drop HDDs. I've seen this before. A simple CMOS clearing works wonders..

The splash screen move monitors. Then it posts fine, windows shows up, drops USB ports, no mouse, no keyboard. Again, running 1200mhz or faster Memory speeds.

Bios and this turbo core. Well this seems to come and go. When I clear CMOS, hit F1 for first time configuration, Turbo is missing from the bios list. Simply hit F10 and it reappears.

So I do know the board is picky on how you want to beat on it. All I can say is you may want to watch what your really doing with memory. I'm by far no expert, but the board relies heavily on that stable RAM. So there's no cheating or beading round' the bush bout' that.

HOWEVER, in defense to the heat and problems or what not, The FX-9590 is by all means Not slow. Just leave it stock for most people and enjoy! Really I mean that.

Aaaand, if one wanted to find 8 ghz, This would be the way to go. You can just tell the cpu is made for cold. Give it just a little, it starts to fly. 5.4 - 5.6ghz and benching on ICE bucket water would be of no issue for most anybody.

But yea, Hangs with this set up for a daily user. It's gonna happen. There's tons of reading out there, I never really saw the answer till I looked for it.

V-droop, Picky with Memory , Heat with load testing - are the three major that stick out like a sore thumb.

Don't load test, don't use less v-core than P-state when in manual and all 8 cores, Keep memory in check.

 

[caddi daddi]

the other temp issues this cpu brings to the table are motherboard and vrm temps, no weenie cases or whimpy fans need apply.
after leaning on all 8 cores for a few hours everything heats up.
I'm playing with a program called openfoam and running a sim with the little 8350 @4.8 the motherboard will creep from 22c into the mid 30's with the vrm section just ablaze in the upper 70c range.

 

[ShrimpBrime]

There's no lie the VRM section gets hot. And when you have a board that has more of them like 8+1, you build a lot of heat.

Some of that problem lies in heat sinking the VRMs and in some cases piped to the NB. Well it has ups and downs. It's made to accumulate heat and then dissipate. So heat sinks essentiall "hold" a temp for you. All boards will throttle, there's no hidden trick to turn this bios setting off. Most boards shut right off to save themselves.

I also did find that this board and cpu combo will start throttling at only 55c Cpu in HWMonitor (socket temp). Any one experiencing higher than this temp will have a really bad OC experience.While in manualOC mode, Instead of throttling, it'll hang/freeze.

But yes to the Heavy VRM cooling, good to mention CaddiDaddy! thank you.

 

[chrisjames61]

AMD must be aware of all these problems. These cpu's can't be anything near moneymakers for them. Among'st enthusiasts they basically get universally panned. That can't be a good thing. I wonder why they don't just stop selling them?

 

[ShrimpBrime]

Not sure as to WHY they still sell these chips, But I do know they had a very considerable mark down from launch date.

At the time, they where fast and compared with Intel and a variety of levels, I think back then the 3770K was going to be the contender at the time. Serving as a flag ship, it caught the usual criticism being no good with single threading, floating point was below par, transistor cuts and no more unlocking for quad and six core counter parts.

So they sell now to guys that really like AMD, and I've seen these being purchased because of the raw cpu power at stock vs having to overclock to get there.

So a little more than 200$ now vs the 900$ plus price tag at realease. These now sell much easier. I waited. Knew that was gonna happen.

Phenom II Tweaker was a similar joke.

 

[ShrimpBrime]

Noticed some FX-9590 users coming around. Thought to bump this for a little info.

Questions welcome.

 

[RGone]

Place to find this thread...

...Scroll down to the Flashing Police Light and this thread should have a place to find it at any time. RGone...

RGone...

 

[Blaylock]

Great write-up there Shrimpy!

 

[ShrimpBrime]

Does any one have a FX-9370 that would be kind enough to share pstates and experience with every day ambient cooling and overclocking?

- - - Updated - - -

These CPU's seem like they would be fun to freeze

I Think Shrimpy has already?!?

Have not. Using this like a normal joe for everyday gaming and computing. Will get extreme at some point in time, but not likely soon.

 

[Johan45]

I have a couple 9370s at home, the newer one has a lower PState than the older one and the older one id on an AIO as my gaming machine. What do you want to know S_B. I can get the P_states tonight or tomorrow. I know the older one is buried somewhere in the just putzen thread but it'll be easier to just get them again.
Page 27 of 318

Well the P-States aren't quite what I expected on the FX-9370.

# of P-States 7
P-State FID 0x1F - VID 0x04 - IDD 18 (23.50x - 1.500 V)
P-State FID 0x1C - VID 0x04 - IDD 18 (22.00x - 1.500 V)
P-State FID 0x1A - VID 0x04 - IDD 18 (21.00x - 1.500 V)
P-State FID 0x16 - VID 0x0D - IDD 14 (19.00x - 1.387 V)
P-State FID 0x12 - VID 0x16 - IDD 12 (17.00x - 1.275 V)
P-State FID 0x8 - VID 0x26 - IDD 7 (12.00x - 1.075 V)
P-State FID 0x10C - VID 0x36 - IDD 4 (7.00x - 0.875 V)

 

[ShrimpBrime]

Well both chip pstates for comparison would be great. The 1.500v for the top 3 pstates says enough. Realistic temps while running AIO with and without additional vrm socket cooling would be a plus. No testing needed, off your head temps would be close enough.

Many thanks. Trying tobturn this more into a 9 series thread more over just the 9590 by itself, sometimes wondering the differences between these two chips with average daily stuff if you follow.

Many thanks

- - - Updated - - -

Oh and any info scraped up on batch 1429 chips would be great as well. I am collecting as much data as possible.