future project

[Someone]

ya, i have visited the other sites too, a little bit, but not much. I dont want to pester everybody until i get to the point of purchasing components. I want to have the "shell" built first, i feel that the "pros" will take me more seriously if i have something to show, so till then i dont want to pester them, they are very busy.

 

[diehrd]

Do we have to wait a year ? I think ask Jeeves can get ya through a lot of the unknown..And add google that way whatever ya want to know is easily accessable..(JK)

 

[diehrd]

"I will do an awesome job on it though, just all of you wait and see. After i build this, i feel many more people will follow in my footsteps."

I have a design in my head that will make the oil seperators automatic, so i never have to worry about them.

I have a design in my head that will help to prevent a "lack of load" on the evaporator leading to liquid in the compressor.

I can learn to build all the circuitry to prevent one stage from being turned on before another stage reaches a set temperature, i can learn all of this.
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The above comments sound sorta scary or from a Pinky And The Brain cartoon..

Build a 8way Opteron and we all will drool..Blowing up a suburban neighbor hood might not be as impressive to us unless you reside in bin Ladens neighborhood....

Lastly and I do not wan't to sound mean but what is in your head should be taken out..-200f is not something 99.9999999% of us here would actually look at for more then a few seconds because the reality is we have no intrest in building something to do that..

 

[weapon]

Chris_F, check this link out :

http://www.vr-zone.com/?i=618&s=1

Look " Professional "?


He managed to hit -111c



Yes, i am aware of the dangers of phase change. A compressor can turn gas into liquid, and they can turn liquid into millions of shards of steel flying extremely fast, but with the proper care, they are safe. Just like an oxy / acetylene torch " which, i do use often ". With proper safety guidelines, can be safe. That is why i research stuff first, thats why i go to professionals first, thats why i ask questions first, so i dont blow myself up, but thanks for caring anyways .

that cascade system was built by shamino from vr-zone...or lardarse as he is known in the xtremeforums. that was by no means his first run at phase change cooling. I know this as I talked to him while he was working on it as well as having exchanged a helluva lot of info with him at VR before he started it. As for the rack - he planned on expanding it and experimenting with it - it allows access to all of his components so an oil sep or filter could be swapped out easily if needed....as well as allowing room for expansion.

building a cascade is not a walk in the park - maybe you should go back to vr-forums and track down the thread where the center piece of shamino's gauge manifold blew across the room knocking a nice dent in a cabinet door when he was charging with 1150 or take a look at the pic where the hose gave way and nailed his leg --- it looks like he got hit with a fricken bullwhip.

I have built several phase change systems but only now do I feel I know enough to attack a cascade. You are not dealing with a simple loop - the loops in a cascade are entirely dependent on one another once you get past the highest stage. 3 stages is not something to attempt on a 1st run. It might run great for a week but unless you know everything about them, it only takes one part failure and one misinterpretation of a gauge reading before something is blowing pieces of metal across the room and thru the wall. check Gary Lloyd's (CMS, the guy that wrote TechMethod - has probably forgot more about phase change than we'll ever know) quote on cascades - "a safe cascade? isn't that like a safe nuclear bomb?" That is coming from someone that has spent his entire life dealing with phase change systems.

aite - now that I have covered the obvious dangers....

do you know how blow off valves work and where they should be placed? oil separators? line dryers? what filters, separators and other components work with particular refrigerants at given temps?

build a single stage first. then build a single stage that works.
then try going for a cascade if you still think it will be easy.

 

[kayl]

what are you currently using to cool your computer
do you have a picture of your current cooling system?

 

[Someone]

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?threadid=34565


Hmmm, stumbled across this while studying from other peoples success/failures.


This will be my last post on the subject:

I dont have that much " time " anyways, to waist on building a few water chillers and whatnot that will just be tossed out. Believe me, if something bad happens, not much will be lossed.


I wouldnt call myself a moron though, i do have good understanding about how these things work, moreso than most people.

I know that some oils work with some refrigerants, while others wont.

I know that at certain temperatures, you will need an oil seperator, which comes before the condensor, and feeds back the collected oil to the comressor through a cap tube with a solenoid valve to limit flow.

I know that these systems are very dangerous, and if not treated properly, can/will kill.

I know that in order to achieve a safe, well working system, refrigerants will need to be mixed and some refrigerants cant be used. To help thin the oil, to help with pressure, and other reasons, you need a mixed system. I will need lots of help with this part.

I know that you need to remove all contamenants from the system

I know you need a dryer, comes before cap tube, after condensor

I know that you want the flow to go:
1.) From compressor, to top of condensor.
2.) Top of condensor to bottom of condensor.
3.) Bottom of condensor, to dryer
4.) Dryer to cap tube
5.) cap tube to evaporator
6.) evap to loops to prevent liquid from returning
7.) liquid loop trap thingys to compressor.

I know that on the guages:
yellow goes to refrigerant
red goes to "head" or high pressure side (before condensor)
blue goes to "suction" or low pressure side ( after evaporator )

ahhh, i guess i will post more, on what i know/ dont know because im really tired now. later

 

[solo]

i apologize for calling you a moron because it is obvious that you aren't

you do know ur stuff, but please, build a single stage

 

[weapon]

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?threadid=34565


Hmmm, stumbled across this while studying from other peoples success/failures.


This will be my last post on the subject:

I dont have that much " time " anyways, to waist on building a few water chillers and whatnot that will just be tossed out. Believe me, if something bad happens, not much will be lossed.


I wouldnt call myself a moron though, i do have good understanding about how these things work, moreso than most people.

I know that some oils work with some refrigerants, while others wont.

I know that at certain temperatures, you will need an oil seperator, which comes before the condensor, and feeds back the collected oil to the comressor through a cap tube with a solenoid valve to limit flow.

I know that these systems are very dangerous, and if not treated properly, can/will kill.

I know that in order to achieve a safe, well working system, refrigerants will need to be mixed and some refrigerants cant be used. To help thin the oil, to help with pressure, and other reasons, you need a mixed system. I will need lots of help with this part.

I know that you need to remove all contamenants from the system

I know you need a dryer, comes before cap tube, after condensor

I know that you want the flow to go:
1.) From compressor, to top of condensor.
2.) Top of condensor to bottom of condensor.
3.) Bottom of condensor, to dryer
4.) Dryer to cap tube
5.) cap tube to evaporator
6.) evap to loops to prevent liquid from returning
7.) liquid loop trap thingys to compressor.

I know that on the guages:
yellow goes to refrigerant
red goes to "head" or high pressure side (before condensor)
blue goes to "suction" or low pressure side ( after evaporator )

ahhh, i guess i will post more, on what i know/ dont know because im really tired now. later

you have obviously done a lot of reading and you absorbed a helluva lot of it. still, you should approach this in steps -- build the single stage as your high stage and get it working right - you can add the second stage to that once you have the 1st loop working correctly. that isn't going to be something that is "discarded" but more of a base for your cascade. once you have the 1st stage up and running, you can try adding the 2nd stage and then when it works, you can add the third. that won't require much more in the way of time or tools and it wll be a lot more likely to produce a fully functional end product without having to have any of the drywall in your house patched following a compressor explosion. besides, it will give you some hands on time with phase change while you are trying to track down crazy parts for a cascade (like an interstage heat exchanger [check eBay for tube and shell or brazed plate models] and oil separators...henry makes some good ones as does temprite...finding the ones that work with ultra low temps is usually the problem).

also, check with your local hvac suppliers for parts. they will often have a lot of what you need but some of the oddball stuff for cascades will be a PITA to track down. the suction line that runs to the evap is fun to locate - it has to be semi-flexible but rated for ultra low temps as well - usually stainless steel with stainless steel flex over the exterior --$$$.

Originally posted by kayl
what are you currently using to cool your computer
do you have a picture of your current cooling system?

this is how the last one started (single stage):

after a little tweaking:

I'll try to get some better pics of the final system this weekend.

 

[solo]

nice little condensing unit you got there

where did you get that condenseerrrrr i am in need of one veyr badly

 

[Someone]

Its just, im afraid of a few things, like i plan on it being compact... uh, compact... so far it measures 4ft,6in / 2ft / 3ft... Well, ok, compact isnt the best word, but.

Once i have the chamber housing the motherboard and stuff installed, it will be difficult to add on to without ruining the insulation in the container.

uh, well... ge wizzz. I REALLY want to just to cascade, but man, all the pros want me to start with a single.


Ok, here is what i will do, just please give me an answer to this question, i havent seen it done, and it will make things much easier if it is possible.

Can i have 2 cap tubes in one system. So i can have a single cascade taking care of the CPU and GPU? If i use a slightly larger compressor, will it work? If so, here is what i will do, to make everyone happy. If everyone is happy, i can get the parts alot easier.

If it is possible to have 2 caps, i will start with that " ambient " cooling system, the one that will cool the liquid. Flourinert will NOT be a problem for me to get, so that i can do easily.

I will build it, so that i can remove the motherboard chamber, and work on the cascade under it. ya, that will be easy, i know how i will do it. Everyone happy?


Just please, help me with this, i will need GOBS of it. I have a basic understanding of how it works, why it works, and what makes it work, but no freakn experiance, exept with a car.

 

[kayl]

yes its possible to use one phase change system (single compressor) and cool both the cpu and vga with two different captubing

i know that steff has done a single stage
look here http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1055&perpage=25&pagenumber=7

 

[Someone]

Sweet!

Thats what im gona do.

 

[kayl]

do you have access to refrigerant

 

[lclark2074]

yes start with a singel stage get it working then after a wile of tweeking go to a two stage system.
get my avice doint go all the way first this will be a learring curve.
you will nead to make safty meashers that was not in that articale.
that giy looks dangerus he got conasation on all his parts that not good.
good luck!!!

 

[Someone]

Refrigerant shouldn't be a problem, money goes a long way, and this is not a low budget project.

 

[lclark2074]

that not my point1! my point is what are you going to do if one of compressors doint work you! woint have enuf time to shut youre computer down!
how about startup how are you going to switch on computer?
make single stage first get all the problems solved with that first
then go on to a two stage. go on and get all problems worked out with that this will take time to balence it out. and new safty conserns will also nead to be worked out than go on to more advansed setup.

 

[Someone]

Read some of my earlier posts, i have desided to go with a single stage first.


As far as shutting the system down in a crisis, i want to have something that monitors either, the temps, or pressures of each stage, and set a shut-off point for each. Should the temps or pressures ever exceed the set values the entire system will just shut off.

to switch on the computer i will push the "power" button?

 

[solo]

you might need a controller/relay to swtich on the single stage first, so it gets cold enoughbefore the PC boots

 

[weapon]

Refrigerant shouldn't be a problem, money goes a long way, and this is not a low budget project.

that will depend on the refrigerants you use -
R22 is cheap enough at about $60 for 30lbs...but we are talking about cascade refrigerants --not R22.

you could have a refrig. tech charge it but it will still be a decent chunk of $$.

if you use 404a or 507 for the high stage - that will be about $260 for a 24lb cylinder of either(that is the smallest size they sell it in)

for the low stage, you will have to really shell out some cash. refrigerants for the low stage are expensive - $95/pound with a 10lb minimum or higher is not uncommon. r1150 isnt that high - least it wasnt last time I checked.

nice little condensing unit you got there

where did you get that condenseerrrrr i am in need of one veyr badly

lucked out on that one - it was sort of a one shot deal. the supplier got it in trade and I took it off his hands. It needed some mods for direct die but I got that sorted out and it works well.

do you need a complete unit or just the condenser?
have you checked with rparts for condensers?

 

[Someone]

like i said, its not a low budget project.

I believe it will be above $10,000 dollars US when it is done.