Ghosts in the Machine?

[Honi]

Hi guys,

My name is Honi and I have just joined the Forum and this is my first post so forgive me if this post is in the wrong place as im a forum virgin

Back in November i laid out £3047 for a custom built liquid cooled PC. The guy that built it seemed to have done a good job, though early after purchase I discovered that one of the Coolermaster Cosmos II case USB 3's was faulty which caused all sorts of problems until a friend got it sorted. The guy that built it was no help at all and seemed to want nothing to do with it after he had built it and taken my money, was in fact incredibly rude when asked for help and i have no communication with him now. Since the USB 3.0 problem was diagnosed it has worked fine until about a month ago.

Now it seems to have developed some issues, and I could use some help

THE PROBLEM

1) In the middle of using it at any time whether gaming or reading the news, the signal to the monitor is lost, the computer which has a clear perspex side keeps running but only a front button restart will get the screen back, and the mouse and keyboard appear to lose power, as their green lights go off.

2) On a couple of occassions it has completely shut down on its own and restarted while I watch.

I HAVE NO IDEA WHATS WRONG WITH IT

I have some opinions too. I recently discovered quite a lot of air bubbles in the system, its using an XSPC reservoir and i have read about the design flaws in these units, also the guy that built it did not do the job i thought he had because he has left one of the reservoir pipes so short that the reservoir can not be removed from the unit either front or back for filling as long as liquid is in it, and despite his assurances it would take two years before a refill was required the fluid seems to be on the low side.

I am not experienced with PC's and even less with liquid cooling but it seems the very expensive PC is not very happy and any advice and help would be appreciated. If there are any Geeky experts in Dorset UK who may even be willing to pop around that would be awesome too

Im not convinced I have a virus, or an HDMI cable issue, my gut tells me its a PC problem, would it be to do with the liquid/air bubble level or something more serious? The PC is currently not overclocked and is only running on the basic use.

Thanks,

HOni

 

[Aldakoopa]

Hello Honi, welcome to the forums!

Could you give us some PC specs?

Like what CPU, RAM, PSU, video cards, etc?

 

[Honi]

Hi mate,

before we get onto the pc discussion what is the best way to list my pc specs; in a signature or? And if signature how?

 

[Aldakoopa]

You can just list them in a post for now and figure out the signature later if you plan on staying as a member.

 

[Honi]

Ok they should show up in the signature as i just did it. Its only basic, i dont have all the information as i didnt build the unit, for example which cooler is being used, unless i take the unit apart. ill relist them here though as best i know.

"Neon Alien"

CPU: Intel Core i7 4770k 3.50Ghz
COOLER: Unknown. XSPC Reservoir
MOBO: Gigabyte G1 Sniper 5 LGA 1150
RAM: 16GB (8GBx2) Corsair Vengeance DDR3
GPU: Geforce GTX 780 3GB
PSU: 1300W GA Supernova
SSD: 500GB Samsung
Case: Coolermaster Cosmos II
OS: 64 bit Windows 8 Professional

 

[tungureanu]

welcome! can you esrimate how much did the level drop? 3-4mm or 3-4cm. If it's the later i'd check for leaks. Also, how oftem does it do the whole freeze thing? Can you also keep an eye on temps? Because it seems to me that you only have a 240mm rad in the bottom and that isn't really enough for mobo+cpu+graphics card in one loop and it may cause overheating

 

[GTXJackBauer]

Welcome to OCFs!

The guy who built your system is clueless. I see he made you get a $400USD motherboard that you'll never fully use its features. It's mainly used for extreme OCing/LN2 or quad SLI/Xfire etc. You could have saved $200 right there. He/she got you a 1300w PSU which you most likely only use 1/4 of its power. And not to make you feel any worse but for that kind of money you should have had at least 2 GPUs in SLI/XFire. It looks like its a 120.2 XSPC kit since the tubes seem to go from the res, to the components than down to the radiator that can only house 120.2 down in the Cosmos 2. That's a $150-$220 kit, depending if its a 750 or D5 pump. That kit wouldn't be enough if you want a silent system unless it was a 30FPI radiator with 3,000+ RPM fans screaming so the guy doesn't know poop about water cooling. He saw a video on youtube on how to put a simple system together and graduated.

The person who build your computer I believe is clueless. Don't get me wrong, nice rig and all but not greatly built. What I am trying to say is you could have build a much better rig for less or got more for what you payed for. I just roughly added your list up and could have build that exact rig for around $2700 or almost half of the money you paid for in pounds in the states. I know in UK, the pound has a higher buying power than USD. So @ 3,047 pounds equates to 5222.92 US Dollar. They took your hard earned money and ripped you off. That infuriates me and gives us pc builders a bad name. Not all of us are like that and sorry to see someone do that to you. We'll do our best to assist you but will be challenging if you're not too computer savy. Have any friend or neighbor that can possibly assist you with the information, comments or questions we supply?

If you're PC savy enough to give us the idle and load temperatures of your CPU and GPU, that would be a great start. Do you have any water temp sensors either and what is your ambient temp in that room? If you don't have those answers than that is ok too. Just let us know where you're at.

Post a few pics of the PC, closer inside and the front so we can see the level of the fluid. Also, what type of fluid was used?

P.S- I am p*ssed right now.

 

[tungureanu]

Welcome to OCFs!

The guy who built your system is clueless. I see he made you get a $400USD motherboard that you'll never fully use its features. It's mainly used for extreme OCing/LN2 or quad SLI/Xfire etc. You could have saved $200 right there. He/she got you a 1300w PSU which you most likely only use 1/4 of its power. And not to make you feel any worse but for that kind of money you should have had at least 2 GPUs in SLI/XFire. It looks like its a 120.2 XSPC kit since the tubes seem to go from the res, to the components than down to the radiator that can only house 120.2 down in the Cosmos 2. That's a $150-$220 kit, depending if its a 750 or D5 pump. That kit wouldn't be enough if you want a silent system unless it was a 30FPI radiator with 3,000+ RPM fans screaming so the guy doesn't know poop about water cooling. He saw a video on youtube on how to put a simple system together and graduated.

The person who build your computer I believe is clueless. Don't get me wrong, nice rig and all but not greatly built. What I am trying to say is you could have build a much better rig for less or got more for what you payed for. I just roughly added your list up and could have build that exact rig for around $2500 or basically half of the money you paid for in pounds in the states. I know in UK, the pound has a higher buying power than USD. So @ 3,047 pounds equates to 5222.92 US Dollar. You got ripped off. That infuriates me and gives us pc builders a bad name. Not all of us are like that and sorry to see someone do that to you. We'll do our best to assist you but will be challenging if you're not too computer savy. Have any friend or neighbor that can possibly assist you with the information, comments or questions we supply?

If you're PC savy enough to give us the idle and load temperatures of your CPU and GPU, that would be a great start. Do you have any water temp sensors either what what is your ambient temp in that room?

thank you!!!!!!! Perfectly said! +1

 

[RnRollie]

damn
several "interesting" cursewords... deep breath.
I am more than mildly pissed off

I concur, you've got ripped off.
Besides the previously mentioned things, i see a few other possible issues. Look like the hose on the GPU is strained.
If a XSPC 750 was used, they are a bit sensistive to low fluid levels. Also the pump is not the best for a loop including VRM coolers et all. And unlees there is another Radiator hidden somewhere, it is seriously underpowered as far as cooling is concerned.

The shut is prabably caused by the thermal overload protection.. besides too smal a radiator, i expect an air bubble / airlock in one of the blocks.

Gently move the whole case back & forth & side-to-side to dislodge "stuck" bubbles.
Ideally the fluid needs topping up, but if the Reservoir cannot slide out thats going to be a challenge. Maybe it can slide back/inwards a bit if you unscrew it?

Otherwise we have to consider popping the top hose off or cutting it to put in a temporary T-line for filling/bleeding.

Anyways we can diagnose what we want... How are we going to salvage this? A step by step / handholding guide? Or can we send an mobile intervention team? Anybody living near Dorset? I'ld volunteer, but the soonest i'll be in the UK will be much later in the year to do some X-mas shopping.


I am more than mildly pissed off

 

[tungureanu]

damn
several "interesting" cursewords... deep breath.
I am more than mildly pissed off

I concur, you've got ripped off.
Besides the previously mentioned things, i see a few other possible issues. Look like the hose on the GPU is strained.
If a XSPC 750 was used, they are a bit sensistive to low fluid levels. Also the pump is not the best for a loop including VRM coolers et all. And unlees there is another Radiator hidden somewhere, it is seriously underpowered as far as cooling is concerned.

The shut is prabably caused by the thermal overload protection.. besides too smal a radiator, i expect an air bubble / airlock in one of the blocks.

Gently move the whole case back & forth & side-to-side to dislodge "stuck" bubbles.
Ideally the fluid needs topping up, but if the Reservoir cannot slide out thats going to be a challenge. Maybe it can slide back/inwards a bit if you unscrew it?

Otherwise we have to consider popping the top hose off or cutting it to put in a temporary T-line for filling/bleeding.

Anyways we can diagnose what we want... How are we going to salvage this? A step by step / handholding guide? Or can we send an mobile intervention team? Anybody living near Dorset? I'ld volunteer, but the soonest i'll be in the UK will be much later in the year to do some X-mas shopping.


I am more than mildly pissed off

the wc part can be salvaged with a few yt watercooling tutorials and some help from the forum members, as for his and many others trust....it's gone. First thing for OP is to read the wc stickies so he gets the basics, then order extra rads, fans,fittings and tubes. Next is drain, mount new stuff, prime, bleed and leaktest.

 

[caddi daddi]

guys we can run the guy down from here to sunday, but it sounds like a video card issue along with a usb issue, move your mouse and keyboard to ports on the back of the machine, if they are already on the back, move them to two other ports back there.

 

[caddi daddi]

go here, >>http://www.cpuid.com/softwares/cpu-z.html download the latest version for the right side of the top of the page, open 5 copys, you can do that with this, post a screensot with them all showing.

 

[caddi daddi]

go download this, >>>. http://www.cpuid.com/softwares/hwmonitor.html
post a screenshot of it, pull it all the way down so we can see all lines.

 

[caddi daddi]

scuse me, 6 tabs of cpu-z

 

[RnRollie]

GPU might be overheating (air bubble?) or needs to be reseated... unless the picture is deceiving there is strain on the GPU by the hose.

 

[caddi daddi]

no, i lean more to the overclock being just a little unstable.

 

[Honi]

Hi guys again,

First I want to thank you all for being incredibly friendly and helpful, its lovely to see in this world today where its not always the case secondly i am a girl not a guy As a mark of respect ill try to answer everyone who has had an opinion in this post.

@tungureanu: id say in the 8 months ive had it its dropped between 6-8mm, so im not feeling theres an issue there, definately not leaking.

@GTXJackBauer: Thanks for that, I have no idea what skills he has, I probably was ripped off a bit but as i had no liquid cooled experience that wouldnt have been hard to do. I know the guys a rude idiot anyway I dont think its a bad machine or he epicly ripped me off, id say by about £600, but we at least have something to build from dont we? Im savvy enough to give you those temperatures, further on in this reply. The coolant used was a ready made neon green from Koolance.

@RnRollie: I realise its hard to guage stuff from a picture so ill try to be as honest as i can without giving offence as you guys are the experts. I dont think the GPU hoses are strained, he could have made them a bit longer but they seem ok to me. I agree the pump seems a bit underpowered, its definately an XSPC unit in the front, and it makes all sorts of strange gurglings, and i have read about design flaws in these combo reservoir/pumps. However i have used the software guys mention here and the temps all seem very good. I dont know what the radiator is until we open it up, were assuming its located behind those bottom fans at the side; we have folllowed the rocking process to reduce the air bubbles, but i believe the pump is constantly sucking air hence the gurgling. However as previously mentioned in regards to refilling, the unit cannot be moved forwards due to hose length nor moved backwards due to the XSPC unit having a lip wider than the case, hence no access to it. Ultimately were going to have to redesign the flawed setup (before it runs out of juice ) I will also note that when the PC is turned off 5-6 huge bubbles travel up from the radiator to the reservoir Thanks for offering to visit to help and thanks for defending the honour of a fellow liquid cooled enthusiast

@tungureanu: I have a plan for sorting this out, we will state it at the end and would appreciate feedback on what you guys think?

@caddi daddi: My gut instinct was also that it would be a GPU issue, and/or USB issue. As i mentioned before at least one of the case USB 3's was defunct at purchase, and as i couldnt blame the builder for this as he may not have been aware of it, i simply got my friendly local engineer to diagnose and solve this problem for me. We have already tried the moving peripherals, but as earlier stated my instinct is it might be a GPU issue, probably related to air and fluid (its just an instinct i am not really knowledgable yet in these things ) I have used this software you mentioned before, in fact have these on my machine now, so will take screenshots for you guys.

@RnRollie: If there is a strain on the GPU from the hose to the CPU then i cant say so, it looks ok to me, but obviously i am no expert. By reseating im assuming you mean removing and putting back into the port? No way i can remove this currently without a fluid drain. Air bubble overheating sounds credible based on my own judgement and what has been said here.

@caddi daddi: The CPU is 3.50. It has currently been overclocked one step to medium, in fact its running like this as I type this and this step brings the CPU to 4.50. Obviously the temperature records increase but it seems quite stable.


Just want to apologise in advance if theres a way to quote multiple people in the same reply, because i dont know how to do that so have responded as best I can. Ok on to solutions

My Plan.

1) remove the XSPC pump/reservoir.
2) put in a cylindrical reservoir say an Aqua aqualis either on its own or one with a pump built in.
3) buy a seperate pump depending on step 2 above. advice please.
4) either replace the radiator with a bigger better radiator or put in an extra radiator.

An extra step I have considered is this:

It appears that at the moment in the loop the liquid comes from the GPU to the CPU. Instead im thinking to have the fluid go from the GPU into the radiator (add one at the back of the machine over the current fan), the another length of tube to go from the radiator to the CPU. Also based on what guys here have said about underusing the power of the board im thinking another GPU 780 3GB in Sli (liquid cooled of course). Please advise

Finally i am inserting here multiple pics of the pc for your edification and sorry about the length of the post. temperature and software screenshots after this post.

Honi

 

[Honi]

Ok as promised:

Screenshot of CPUID. 6 tabs covering all the information.

Screenshot of HWMonitor. 2 tabs covering all the temps (as its too long for my screen.)

Cheers

 

[Spawn-Inc]

Caddi, you know there is an edit button right?

Honi, you can try and push the res/pump into the case to get access to the fill port, I don't know if that case will allow it though. Worth a shot, definitely air in the system.


If you go with a second gtx780 I would opt for alot more rad, add at least a triple 120mm rad if not more.

 

[RnRollie]

The res is not sitting in the top ODD bay i assume? in that case, it might be possible to remove the blanking plate or whatever is living in the top bay(s) and thus gain access to the fillport of the reservoir.
It is probably not a bad idea to put a clamp on the top hose before opening the fillport.
Then top the res up with distilled water -to the max.. you should not be able to see the liquid level in the res viewport, it should be "full".
Some big syringe or filling bottle might be handy.


Once filled up, some more tilting & rocking with some conviction 'll help to get the air out. That way at least it's more ore less back in working order.

THEN its planning the complete breakdown and redo of the loop.

As for pump/res combo: this one's nice also:
http://www.xs-pc.com/water-pumps/d5-photon-170-reservoirpump-combo