Going to war with NVIDIA

[OCnewbee]

I say monopolysoft i mean microsoft is behind this.

 

[dpellio]

I still do not understand the reasoning behind these types of suits. A company makes a product and states, quite clearly, that said product is only compatable with their support products. What's the issue here?

The thing is, Nvidia DOES NOT state quite clearly that the SLI is only compatible with their support products. They make it sound as though SLI will work on any board with dual PCI-E slots. And then to make matters worse, they INTENTIONALLY make the drivers so that SLI will not work with certain chipsets. So Joe BLow goes out and buys a couple of Nvidia cards for his intel motherboard, thinking that he can use SLI only to discover he has to buy a new motherboard too. That's not business, that is underhanded and deceptive.

 

[Spoudazo]

Looks like they can shower together

They better bring soap-on-a-rope!

 

[Mr Fox]

We were too Xtream for Xtreamsystems They tugged the post as soon as posted....






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Re: going to war

Please dont launch attacks against companies from XS, if you had news then that would have been the correct section to post in.
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Your thread about nvidia
Who on OC asked you to put this up here? njkid told me that someone there told you to post it here.
Mind letting me know?
The thread is not gone, just moved for the time being. It may be put back at a later time. We need to look into this a bit ourselves.
Sorry, but as it sits, it looks like you are trying to bash them.
I am not accusing you of anything, we just need more facts before we let something like this have a free for all on here.

IFMU




I almost think they are AEG Agents.........


Nah !

 

[ChinStrap]

I bet they wouldn’t have pulled it had you been wearing a detroit shirt

 

[speed bump]

So Nvidia writes new drivers that lock down enabling SLI on other peoples boards big deal.

There vendors decide after this to change what the box says.

Intel wouldn't pay to allow SLI on there chipsets so Nvidia did what you would do if the business across the street wanted to use your tools but wouldn't pay the price you asked, they said no you won't be allowed to use our tools with your company.

I can't run CF on my Nvidia chipset, I can't run SLI on my motherboard even if it has 2 slots that it is possible to plug PCI-e x16 graphics cards into it. Why becuase it isn't SLI compatible which a quick search on google would let me know that.

I'm sorry Mr. Fox but what you are saying is roughly the equivelent of the people that said "well it didn't say the Coffee was hot" and so I want some money.

 

[T'wolves]

I still do not understand the reasoning behind these types of suits. A company makes a product and states, quite clearly, that said product is only compatable with their support products. What's the issue here? Why should nVidia cards run on ATi chipset and vise versa? Are Intel's chipsets any better than nVidia's or Ati's? I understand the overclocking issues, but those aside, does it really make a difference?

All I know for sure is that if I am making a product, I sure as hell don't want my competitors to profit from it in any shape, form or fashion. Right now users have a choice. They can buy an Ati-based MB and use ATi cards to their full potential, they can buy a nVidia-based MB and do the same or they can buy an Intel-based MB and run either card to a limited extent. Crossfire is an ATi technology that requires ATi chipsets to work properly. SLI is a nVidia technology that requires nVidia chipsets to work properly. Cards from either manufacturer will work on Intel chipsets, i.e, you'll get video, but there is no guarantee that you'll get anything more. I cannot see why this is a problem. It's not like consumers do not have a choice in the matter. That was the premise behind the government's suit against Microsoft. It really does not apply here.

Agreed...so the Intel chipset said "Nvidia SLI Ready" and there is no support, or the Intel chipset didn't say "Nvidia SLI Ready" and wonder why there is no support? If anything is price fixed, it's the cost of video cards over the last several years.

The thing is, Nvidia DOES NOT state quite clearly that the SLI is only compatible with their support products. They make it sound as though SLI will work on any board with dual PCI-E slots. And then to make matters worse, they INTENTIONALLY make the drivers so that SLI will not work with certain chipsets. So Joe BLow goes out and buys a couple of Nvidia cards for his intel motherboard, thinking that he can use SLI only to discover he has to buy a new motherboard too. That's not business, that is underhanded and deceptive.

I think there is a difference between poor marketing and mis-leading a consumer, and cornering the market in a monopoly and price fixing it with ATI. I could believe the marketing scam with more evidence, but I don't see a price fixing trust problem which is what the jist I got from the original post.

"well it didn't say the Coffee was hot"

No kidding...sometimes consumers have to protect themselves, too.

 

[MarkS]

The thing is, Nvidia DOES NOT state quite clearly that the SLI is only compatible with their support products. They make it sound as though SLI will work on any board with dual PCI-E slots. And then to make matters worse, they INTENTIONALLY make the drivers so that SLI will not work with certain chipsets. So Joe BLow goes out and buys a couple of Nvidia cards for his intel motherboard, thinking that he can use SLI only to discover he has to buy a new motherboard too. That's not business, that is underhanded and deceptive.

One thing it's not is price fixing. The large header in the first post mentioned price fixing. The rest was Mr. Fox's tirade against nVidia and ATi about the driver issue. My problem is with Mr. Fox trying to find a legal solution to this, when it is clearly the right of both nVidia and ATi to allow their technology to operate in full only on their technology.

Apart from that, anyone doing SLI or Crossfire knows or should know the limitations of that technology. This is advanced stuff that the average computer user would not understand or see the need for. Those that want to do SLI or Crossfire and are ticked off, are so because they insist on using MB's with incompatable chipsets. That's their problem, not ATi's or nVidia's problem. I cannot believe that anyone would spend the money on two graphics cards and a mother board without finding out every little detail. We're talking a grand easy for the bare mininum SLI set up, including RAM, CPU MB and graphics cards. Then there is the price for the case, drives, Windows, PSU, etc. If you are going to spend that kind of money on a computer, you had better know something about computers.

 

[Valk]

I agree with marks on this one.
I must be missreading this thread, but ive never seen nvidia or intel mislabel motherboards like the 975x as being sli compliant. SLI is specific to nvidia core logic and requires an Nvidia chipset supporting it to work. Using hacked drivers is a breach of nvidia ULA and they will just tell you to bugger off with that.

 

[El<(')>Maxi]

The deception is as we already know SLI or CF does not require the parent chipset to work correctly. They are lying to the consumer and to many including me, it's something I don't think should be left alone. The bottom line is they are pushing the legal envelope even when they know they do not have precedent, and they will only re-think something if they are challenged. It's a risky game, just as Microsoft.

 

[Mr Fox]

I agree with marks on this one.
I must be missreading this thread, but ive never seen nvidia or intel mislabel motherboards like the 975x as being sli compliant. SLI is specific to nvidia core logic and requires an Nvidia chipset supporting it to work. Using hacked drivers is a breach of nvidia ULA and they will just tell you to bugger off with that.

They are all Certified to PCI/SIG PCI-E v1.0a ... that is the applicable PCI-E Spec... and the PCI-E lane Programability is covered under that spec.


975x is fully compliant... remember that PCI-E is an INTEL tecknology.... the First SLI was run on Intel Tumwater Core Logic.

 

[Valk]

Ah, thank you for clearing it up then =) I have been teh educated. I still think its a lot of needless effort and money to sue them about it though.

 

[SeasonalEclipse]

eee finally some action in the tech world again.

 

[Audioaficionado]

The deception is as we already know SLI or CF does not require the parent chipset to work correctly. They are lying to the consumer and to many including me, it's something I don't think should be left alone. The bottom line is they are pushing the legal envelope even when they know they do not have precedent, and they will only re-think something if they are challenged. It's a risky game, just as Microsoft.

They are all Certified to PCI/SIG PCI-E v1.0a ... that is the applicable PCI-E Spec... and the PCI-E lane Programability is covered under that spec.


975x is fully compliant... remember that PCI-E is an INTEL tecknology.... the First SLI was run on Intel Tumwater Core Logic.

Perhaps you might have some legal ground based on prior ad copy, however they might just win on the grounds that they have a right to lock out competitors because of DRM issues.

Microsoft does this with its Office suite by constantly changing the code just enough to break file compatibility with other office apps. Don't think the Windows OS hasn't and isn't breaking competitor software compatibility in the guise of critical updates.

Now I wonder if nVidia will sue all the guys who write cracked/modified drivers to restore SLI functionality. They legally could do this as the drivers are their intellectual property and the Digital Millennium Copyright Act of 1998 gives them the teeth.

BTW DRM is what Vista is all about. The pretty UI is just the candy coating on the pill to make it easier to swallow.

 

[MarkS]

They are all Certified to PCI/SIG PCI-E v1.0a ... that is the applicable PCI-E Spec... and the PCI-E lane Programability is covered under that spec.


975x is fully compliant... remember that PCI-E is an INTEL tecknology.... the First SLI was run on Intel Tumwater Core Logic.

What's you're point? Intel created a faster card interface technology. Its up to the card manufacturer as to how they use it. SLI is not a critical technology and SLI graphics cards will run just fine on Intel chipsets. SLI on the other hand is not guaranteed, but then SLI is not a critical piece of technology, is it? I think your argument would have merit if nVidia completely disabled the graphics card on any chipset not their own. That is clearly not the case.

nVidia clearly needs to update the wording on their cards, but you needs to prove intent. How do you know that its not a detail that was forgotten? What makes you think nVidia is doing this with malicious intent?

 

[hitbyaprkedcar7]

Bah. i dont know whats going on. ill attempt to read it tomorow morning.

 

[speed bump]

They are all Certified to PCI/SIG PCI-E v1.0a ... that is the applicable PCI-E Spec... and the PCI-E lane Programability is covered under that spec.


975x is fully compliant... remember that PCI-E is an INTEL tecknology.... the First SLI was run on Intel Tumwater Core Logic.

Actually the first SLI was run on any chipset by a company that also brought us such great technologies such as glide and shortly afterward was bought by Nvidia.

They could of run SLI on AGP 8x but no one ever worked on developing that.

Also Nvidia put the work into developing and working out how to make SLI work, how to make the cards work, and how to make the chipset talk to the two GPUs at the same time. Nvidia did the work which at the chipset wasn't a gigantic amount becuase Intel didn't have to much problem releasing the 955x a couple of months later. The problem comes that SLI is intellectual property, and they just invested alot of money into that intellectual property and they wanted Intel to pay to use it. Intel said no and thus Nvidia disabled Intel support in there drivers. That is perfectly legal even if Intel does a 100% better job of supporting SLI on there chipsets. Simplest way to do this is get enough people to Intel we wont buy your motherboards becuase you can't get them SLI certified. Then Intel might change there minds becuase NV won't unless something there is a very compelling reason to.

 

[Burninate]

I kind of thought the issue was that Nvidia is locking down the ability to change the windows registry and allowing users to use SLI on non-SLI certified Mobos. Isn't that a big chunk of the issue here? It's not hacked drivers that are the issue (as I think we're in general agreement that that may be a violation of the EULA) but the fact that Nvidia is locking down access to parts of my operating system that they have no business locking down for the sole purpose of excluding me the ability to use SLI on non-SLI certified boards and saying that its a hardware issue. Or am I missing the point?

 

[Audioaficionado]

I kind of thought the issue was that Nvidia is locking down the ability to change the windows registry and allowing users to use SLI on non-SLI certified Mobos. Isn't that a big chunk of the issue here? It's not hacked drivers that are the issue (as I think we're in general agreement that that may be a violation of the EULA) but the fact that Nvidia is locking down access to parts of my operating system that they have no business locking down for the sole purpose of excluding me the ability to use SLI on non-SLI certified boards and saying that its a hardware issue. Or am I missing the point?

As long as the registry keys were written by the driver installation, nVidia can prevent overwrites. As long as they don't lock down or prevent non nVidia keys,they are within their DRM rights.

They had better allow those registry keys to be deleted and the registry returned to the pre-install condition when the driver is uninstalled.

 

[RJARRRPCGP]

At least, Nvidia never attempted to block OC'ing.