That rio karma is awesome, got to check it out the other day. Personally I have a 10 GB ipod that I've had for almost a year, no problems with the battery life. 8 hours is kinda slim compared to what the others can put up, but I've never been in a situation where I'd listen to music for 8 hours straight, ipod's always plugged into something at the end of the day/week, whether it be into the wall charger or my computer. The new 20 GB are very slick, plus a total of 12 hours makes it more competative. Also, I've heard that iRivers harddrive based mp3 player is a very good deal.