Handful of Noob Questions

[hotzpacho]

I'm going to be building a PC and I'm very interested in water cooling most of the components outside of the mosfets.

I've been reading many forums and threads all over the web and most people agree that it's overkill to water cool the RAM. I'm not too concerned with the cost and or ongoing debate in regards to what should or shouldn't be water cooled. I'm just trying to understand the proper thinking.

For the sake of debate let's assume i want to water cool the CPU, GPU, NB, SB, and RAM. I have a handful of questions that haven't been answered from the research i've done so far and i'm in need of some advice to get my understanding on par.

Assumed specs:
Cosmos 2 case
Intel i7 Sandy Extreme 2011 cpu vs i7 ivy bridge 1155 cpu
ASUS 2011 vs ASUS 1155
Nvidia Geforce GTX 580 vs 680 (single)
Undecided on RAM, but it's going to be at least 32GB (4x8gb)

1. does one need to water cool if their not overclocking? i would think that overclocking and water cooling goes hand in hand as every standard retail pc uses air cooling. I'm sure water cooling helps components last longer, perform slightly better, added aesthetics, and all around fun, but a person that isn't planning on overclocking at this moment isn't forced to have to water cool. Am i correct?

2. i thought i read that there are reservoirs and then a pump/res combo where their integrated. If I'm correct, is one option better than the other?

3. How does a person determine the size of the radiator needed to cool a component(s)? I haven't been able (maybe i misunderstood or didn't look deeper) to get a solid answer on determining the correct size. I'm sure there's a rule of thumb and that's what I'm looking for.

4. Looping. I've read multiple opinions and i'm looking for a final conclusion. I'm assuming the order doesn't matter (yet everyone seems to have a different opinion), but the quantity and types of items in a loop does matter. Am i correct?

Does a system as such need a single loop or a double loop? in all honesty i don't understand how to design a single loop vs. a double loop.

Thanks to anyone who helps this noob mature with his thinking.

 

[TehYoyo]

1. does one need to water cool if their not overclocking?

No, but it's a lot of fun!

i would think that overclocking and water cooling goes hand in hand as every standard retail pc uses air cooling.

Those aren't overclocked, though. Overclocking initiates a need, or at least it's a good idea to water cool.

I'm sure water cooling helps components last longer, perform slightly better, added aesthetics, and all around fun, but a person that isn't planning on overclocking at this moment isn't forced to have to water cool. Am i correct?

Yep. A good heatsink w/ fan and case airflow will work ya out fine.

2. i thought i read that there are reservoirs and then a pump/res combo where their integrated. If I'm correct, is one option better than the other?

Sorry, don't know.

3. How does a person determine the size of the radiator needed to cool a component(s)? I haven't been able (maybe i misunderstood or didn't look deeper) to get a solid answer on determining the correct size. I'm sure there's a rule of thumb and that's what I'm looking for.

The bigger the better, if you can fit it.

4. Looping. I've read multiple opinions and i'm looking for a final conclusion. I'm assuming the order doesn't matter (yet everyone seems to have a different opinion), but the quantity and types of items in a loop does matter. Am i correct?

I think so. I'd keep the pump as close to the rad as possible, though.

 

[hotzpacho]

when you say "close" to the radiator what do you mean? I've seen tons of cosmos 2 images where the pump is at the bottom of the case and the radiator(s) are on top.

1. And where do i begin in creating a loop pattern for said configuration?

2. the one thing i already know is that the Res comes before the pump, but where do you go from there?

3. is there a mathematical equation to determine the size of the radiator needed for the total or individual wattage of components that will be cooled?

 

[Supertrucker]

Radiator amount is decided by heat going in combined with desired water temps and tolerance for noise.

Loop order is whatever is easiest to route, with the exception that res/t-line comes right before pump inlet

The biggest advantage water cooling has is noise reduction and available surface area. The two go hand in hand. You just cant get 120.4 worth of heatsink on a cpu.

If you arent overclocking, water can still be really nice, especially for dual video card setups, theyy just get hot and loud when there is no room for the top card to breathe. Though I would skip it and get an msi tf iii or asus dirext cu ii type of card if I was running single card, sandybridge doesnt need water at all to stay quiet atstock or even with a modest overclock.

Pump/res combos are great for space saving, they make watercooling a mid tower not such a pain.

My sig system is whisper quiet with 120.4 and 140.2 worth of rad, with 1000rpm or less fans all around, as an example for rad needed.

When/if you decide to water cool, there are some great stickies here that have much more in depth answers for all of this, and so much more. My advise would be to read them now so that you are ready to dive in when the itch gets you.

 

[hotzpacho]

does a larger radiator = louder than it's counterpart?

So if the loop order is more centered on shortest length why's there so much fuss about certain order?

If i do indeed decide to cool all of the components mentioned does anyone have any advice on the quantity and size of needed parts?

 

[Supertrucker]

There is fuss about order because its a common misconception that it matters, the reality is that your water at its hottest point will be about 1c or less warmer than your water at its coldest point in any realistic water loop.

Larger radiators allow for quieter operation, though if you use loud fans and just keep adding them the noise will obviosly go up.

How much rad you want has too many variables for someone else to answer it for you. Example: if you never plan to fully load your cpu and gpu together, and dont overclock, 120.2 woud work. If you plan to overclock to the limit and run distribited computing on both 120.4 is more realistic. And that is at what I would consider acceptable noise. You might not care about noise, or care more than me.

I also wouldnt bother cooling the motherboard unless 2011 boards run a whole lot hotter than 1155 boards. Decentairflow around the vrms is all thats needed on 1155 boards.

 

[hotzpacho]

I also wouldnt bother cooling the motherboard unless 2011 boards run a whole lot hotter than 1155 boards. Decentairflow around the vrms is all thats needed on 1155 boards.

I'm assuming that also applies to the RAM as well?

Basically the 2 most important components to cool are the GPU and CPU, everything else is more for looks than performance and longevity. at least that's what I'm gathering.

So if a person like myself who's never water cooled a pc, should focus primarily on the cpu and gpu, not pushing either to their limits, and a large enough radiator with proper air flow should handle the task?

So hypothetically speaking, if i chose to just cool the cpu and gpu would the loop of Res > Pump > CPU > RAD > GPU > Res be correct thinking?

 

[Supertrucker]

It would work, mine is res pump rad cpu gpu.s rad res. As long as you dont run your pump dry you will be fine. A dry pumps lifespan is measured in seconds, not minutes or hours. And yeah, even the fans that come with ram are more for looks than performance, nevermind watercooling.

 

[hotzpacho]

thank you very much

 

[hotzpacho]

one more question. Is it possible or beneficial to split the water flow in 2 directions after it leaves the Rad?

IE: Res > Pump > Rad > Splits into 2 lines > 1 goes to the CPU, the other goes to the GPU > both lines come together > pump

I don't see many people doing this and i'd like to know the reasons why.

 

[Supertrucker]

Splitting the water flow works pretty well to cool two gpu's with matched blocks, but i wouldnt do it for cpu and gpu. It isnt done often because the water will go through the path of least resistance, so if the two blocks dont match, whichever is less restrictive will get more flow. Plus, your cpu will run much higher over your water temp than your gpu will, so more emphasis is put into cooling the cpu.

 

[TehYoyo]

I might be a bit late on these, but I hope that I still help...

when you say "close" to the radiator what do you mean? I've seen tons of cosmos 2 images where the pump is at the bottom of the case and the radiator(s) are on top.

I mean in the loop...as in don't go pump-->5 things-->radiator-->20 thins-->pump.

does a larger radiator = louder than it's counterpart?

Most of your noise comes from your fans.

If i do indeed decide to cool all of the components mentioned does anyone have any advice on the quantity and size of needed parts?

Assuming you're only cooling GPU and CPU, using a full tower case (I wouldn't waste cash/time on the other parts), I would buy:
1x Nice Radiator (whatever fits, probably about 2x120mm or larger) - You can get two for awesomeness/bragging rights or for a double loop.
1x Pump (or double loop)
About 10 feet of tubing (better more than less)
Corresponding clamps for the CPU, GPU, Pump, Res, etc.
1x Reservoir
Cooling liquid or distilled water - I'd buy it in bulk so that you don't have to buy it every 2 months or so.

I'm assuming that also applies to the RAM as well?

My RAM (Corsair Vengeance) came with aluminum heatspreaders...I don't overclock it (no need, really), but I can't imagine you needing to either. I would put emphasis into cooling the CPU and GPU - IMO, memory coolers look really weird, as do northbridge and HDD coolers (although my drive could use it ) I don't know if you can water cool memory, northbridge, or HDD...I'm pretty sure you can't.

Basically the 2 most important components to cool are the GPU and CPU, everything else is more for looks than performance and longevity. at least that's what I'm gathering.

Yuppers.

So if a person like myself who's never water cooled a pc, should focus primarily on the cpu and gpu, not pushing either to their limits, and a large enough radiator with proper air flow should handle the task?

That's my advice!

So hypothetically speaking, if i chose to just cool the cpu and gpu would the loop of Res > Pump > CPU > RAD > GPU > Res be correct thinking?

Sounds reasonable.

one more question. Is it possible or beneficial to split the water flow in 2 directions after it leaves the Rad?

IE: Res > Pump > Rad > Splits into 2 lines > 1 goes to the CPU, the other goes to the GPU > both lines come together > pump

I don't see many people doing this and i'd like to know the reasons why.

That's where you would want to use a double loop.

 

[hotzpacho]

when implementing a double loop, do the loops ever come together or is 2 entirely separate loops from start to finish?

in terms of maintenance of a water cooling system, what's required?

More specifically do you have to change the water or add anything to it over time, etc? if so, how often?

 

[TehYoyo]

They're pretty much separate from start to finish.

For maintenance, mostly just making sure your res is full and that the pump is never dry. Other than that, you should be fine.

You don't need to change the water, as it's in a closed loop and shouldn't get dirty. Also, the constant flow will keep it free from mold, etc. You'll just need to keep it topped up.

 

[hotzpacho]

@ Supertrucker and TehYoyo

I appreciate your help in answering my questions it's helped straighten out a lot of thinking. Thank you guys!

 

[TehYoyo]

Happy to help. Good luck!