HEY! Wait a minute... (RTX 4060 PCIe)

[rainless]

So WHY does it say "PCIe 4.0" on this thing...? Don't both my motherboard and GPU support PCIe 5.0?

Or is it because of the CPU?

(Not that I was expecting 5.0 to turn my 4060 into a 4090 or anything... Just curious.

 

[Kenrou]

NVIDIA GeForce RTX 4060 Ti & 4060 Graphics Cards

New ways to create & much more.

www.nvidia.com

 

[TELmo]

I don't know of any PCIe 5 graphics cards !?
It's hard enough to saturate the 4 =)

PS: it's normal your GPU turn on x8 ? To many disk or something ?

 

[EarthDog]

First xmp... now this? What have you been doing here for 17 years?!

PS: it's normal your GPU turn on x8 ? To many disk or something ?

.... if it was an x16 card. IIRC, its 4.0 x8 so.... seems right.

4.0 x16 or 5.0 x16 won't yield improvements. Think of it like expanding the pipe/bandwidth but the water/data flow in it remains the same. 4060/4060ti can't saturate 4.0 x8 so making the pipe bigger doesn't matter.

Edit: even with a 4090, the difference between 4.0 x16 and 3.0 x16 (same as 4.0 x8) is only ~2% at 4K.

NVIDIA GeForce RTX 4090 PCI-Express Scaling

The new NVIDIA GeForce RTX 4090 is a graphics card powerhouse, but what happens when you run it on a PCI-Express 4.0 x8 bus? In our mini-review we've also tested various PCI-Express 3.0, 2.0 and 1.1 configs to get a feel for how FPS scales with bandwidth.

www.techpowerup.com

 

[TELmo]

I have PCIe 3 x16
But yes, you're right that it's almost useless.
Marketing works!

 

[rainless]

First xmp... now this? What have you been doing here for 17 years?!

One had to know SO much more 17 years ago... (When I say I've forgotten more things than most people ever knew... I ain't kidding! )

My last few builds (which would cover the past DECADE or so), I threw everything together, turned it on, and it just WORKED... for yeaaaaars. You try that 17 years ago and you'd be lucky to even get to a bios screen let alone boot to windows!

.... if it was an x16 card. IIRC, its 4.0 x8 so.... seems right.

4.0 x16 or 5.0 x16 won't yield improvements. Think of it like expanding the pipe/bandwidth but the water/data flow in it remains the same. 4060/4060ti can't saturate 4.0 x8 so making the pipe bigger doesn't matter.

Edit: even with a 4090, the difference between 4.0 x16 and 3.0 x16 (same as 4.0 x8) is only ~2% at 4K.

NVIDIA GeForce RTX 4090 PCI-Express Scaling

The new NVIDIA GeForce RTX 4090 is a graphics card powerhouse, but what happens when you run it on a PCI-Express 4.0 x8 bus? In our mini-review we've also tested various PCI-Express 3.0, 2.0 and 1.1 configs to get a feel for how FPS scales with bandwidth.

www.techpowerup.com

Here I thought I had such a simple question... now I'm SO confused! hahaha

I hadn't even THOUGHT about the lanes. I somehow thought ALL PCIe graphics cards (the newer ones at least) were whatever the latest, maximum version was and 16 lanes.

So you're telling me the 4060 is both an 8x card AND only PCIe 4.0??! Well... I wish I'd known THAT. hahahahaha


Is there some sort of chart out there of the whole 4000 series and what's 8x and what's 16x and what's PCIe 4.0 and what's PCIe 5.0?

 

[mackerel]

So you're telling me the 4060 is both an 8x card AND only PCIe 4.0??! Well... I wish I'd known THAT. hahahahaha

Would you have chosen differently if you did?

Is there some sort of chart out there of the whole 4000 series and what's 8x and what's 16x and what's PCIe 4.0 and what's PCIe 5.0?

GeForce 40 series - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

It doesn't list PCIe though. One part is easy: all current gen GPUs are 4.0 only from red, green or blue. No one outside of one Chinese company does 5.0 yet. Lower tier GPUs have fewer lanes now but you'll have to check on a case by case basis.

 

[rainless]

Would you have chosen differently if you did?

Yes. I would've gotten the 3070.

 

[EarthDog]

Yes. I would've gotten the 3070.

Why?

What would buying a 4.0 x16 card (from the previous gen) get you?

 

[Blaylock]

Why?

What would buying a 4.0 x16 card (from the previous gen) get you?

A lighter wallet and additional heating for the house.

 

[Kenrou]

Why?

What would buying a 4.0 x16 card (from the previous gen) get you?

At the time we talked about picking GPUs it was a toss between the 4060 and the 3070 which is a fair bit faster for roughly the same price. Think a 6800xt was also mentioned (which I definitely would've picked), but was slightly more expensive.

 

[EarthDog]

At the time we talked about picking GPUs it was a toss between the 4060 and the 3070 which is a fair bit faster for roughly the same price. Think a 6800xt was also mentioned (which I definitely would've picked), but was slightly more expensive.

Sure, I remember that. But 3070s are quite a bit more expensive (in the states?). Newegg shows $389 for the least expensive 3070 and $279 for a 4060. To me, that's a lot more than 'roughly the same'.

But the actual question posed is, why would PCIe 4.0 x16 vs. x8 change your mind? Sure, buy a 3070 because it's faster, but because of the interface?

 

[Kenrou]

Sure, I remember that. But 3070s are quite a bit more expensive (in the states?). Newegg shows $389 for the least expensive 3070 and $279 for a 4060. To me, that's a lot more than 'roughly the same'.

But the actual question posed is, why would PCIe 4.0 x16 vs. x8 change your mind?

Shows now, we don't know if he got a good deal or something at the time No idea about the PCI-E, maybe buyers remorse? If so In fairness I got the same with my Strix 980ti when I found out it was the only model (AFAIK) that was power locked and needed a shunt mod for better OCs (still a beast though, no mistake)

 

[EarthDog]

Shows now, we don't know if he got a good deal or something at the time

Maybe. But he would have to get one helluva deal on a new 3070 to make it 'roughly the same price', considering the $110 (~40%) difference. Regardless, the price has nothing to do with what he said/my follow-up question.

It could be buyer's remorse, sure... but why is he remorseful over PCIe lanes?? I can't think of a valid reason and looking for some clarity OR talk him down off the ledge of regrets as needed, lol.

EDIT: FTR, he was comparing USED 3070s versus NEW 4060s in his thread. Otherwise, these aren't close in price.

 

[rainless]

At the time we talked about picking GPUs it was a toss between the 4060 and the 3070 which is a fair bit faster for roughly the same price. Think a 6800xt was also mentioned (which I definitely would've picked), but was slightly more expensive.

Sure, I remember that. But 3070s are quite a bit more expensive (in the states?). Newegg shows $389 for the least expensive 3070 and $279 for a 4060. To me, that's a lot more than 'roughly the same'.

But the actual question posed is, why would PCIe 4.0 x16 vs. x8 change your mind? Sure, buy a 3070 because it's faster, but because of the interface?

Shows now, we don't know if he got a good deal or something at the time No idea about the PCI-E, maybe buyers remorse? If so In fairness I got the same with my Strix 980ti when I found out it was the only model (AFAIK) that was power locked and needed a shunt mod for better OCs (still a beast though, no mistake)

Maybe. But he would have to get one helluva deal on a new 3070 to make it 'roughly the same price', considering the $110 (~40%) difference. Regardless, the price has nothing to do with what he said/my follow-up question.

It could be buyer's remorse, sure... but why is he remorseful over PCIe lanes?? I can't think of a valid reason and looking for some clarity OR talk him down off the ledge of regrets as needed, lol.

EDIT: FTR, he was comparing USED 3070s versus NEW 4060s in his thread. Otherwise, these aren't close in price.

There's a lot to unpack here... it mainly boils down to Earthdog over-simplifying as usual.

Kenrou is exactly, specifically correct:

The RTX 4060 was 359 bucks and the 3070 was 300. YES... it was one hell of a deal. And I was so lucky that I found MULTIPLE 3070 cards at that price. (Two in Germany and one here.) I never SAW a 4060 for 279. You still don't see that in Europe. Not even on a sale. (In fact... 359 was a Black Friday sale. Now it's kind of the regular price.)

There was also a 6800XT mentioned... It was 399. But when I asked about it I got some kind of flippant answer out of Earthdog (I'm not trippin'... that's just a fact) so I wound up sticking with my 4060 order. (I believe my exact words were: "HEY... I can either cancel this order for the 4060 and get the 6800XT instead... or I can do nothing and let the 4060 come." Earthdog said something along the lines of "You're a big boy, just make a decision." So I just did nothing. (Which, had Kenrou chimed in riggghhhht THERE, would've changed everything. Somebody did later... but it was too late. It was like a flash sale or something.)

As for WHY the PCIe 16 thing would've swayed me one way or the other... It's not JUST the 16x thing... obviously... it's the performance. KNOWING that two were 16x and the one was 8x would've caused me to take a closer look at things. Really... (and it's not so hard to put myself in this situation since all of this JUST happened...) ANYTHING would've been enough to sway me in a different direction. If Kenrou had responded instead of Earthdog... I'd have gotten the 6800XT.

I was HEAVILY LEANING towards getting the 3070. In fact... if I wasn't so pressed for time during the short 3 days I was in Berlin to ship my stuff down here... I would've made that happen.

And yes... if at any time someone said: "Well the 4060 is 8x and both the 3070 and 6800XT are 16x..."

...then I would've cancelled the order. Because that would've given me the impression that either of those were in a different class of cards and it was probably more in my best interest to go that route.

No regrets!

It's apples vs apples at this point. The way I look at it now is I could've either spent 300 bucks, 360 bucks, or 400 bucks. I took the middle route. Haven't had the chance to use my desktop (old or new) much since then anyway since I'm in the middle of waging a war to send Mark Zuckerberg's entire empire crumbling down...

But if you were to ASK ME if the 16x thing would've made me change my mind... then "Yes", it would've.

 

[EarthDog]

There's nothing to unpack here. I couldn't care less about price or new or used. Kenrou brought it up and that's not the point here at all. The specific question that Mack/I wanted to be answered had nothing to do with that. But since you're on about it, you did say used 3070 in that thread (which I also acknowledged previously). Moving on...

As for WHY the PCIe 16 thing would've swayed me one way or the other... It's not JUST the 16x thing... obviously... it's the performance.

Obviously? God only knows what is or isn't in your head, lol. Thank you for clarifying.

There was also a 6800XT mentioned... It was 399. But when I asked about it I got some kind of flippant answer out of Earthdog (I'm not trippin'... that's just a fact) so I wound up sticking with my 4060 order. (I believe my exact words were: "HEY... I can either cancel this order for the 4060 and get the 6800XT instead... or I can do nothing and let the 4060 come." Earthdog said something along the lines of "You're a big boy, just make a decision." So I just did nothing. (Which, had Kenrou chimed in riggghhhht THERE, would've changed everything. Somebody did later... but it was too late. It was like a flash sale or something.)

FTR, we discussed the 6800XT in posts BEFORE I said that. There were a couple of posts before where you knew about its performance and price... I think we mentioned power use/noise. At that point, you just needed to make a decision. Knowing one was x8 vs x16 SHOULDN'T (IMO) have been a part of the decision-making process in the first place. Kenrou wouldn't have saved you (on this topic). Again, not what I'm asking, and sure as **** never wanted to bring it up (nor do I want to discuss or reply).

...then I would've cancelled the order. Because that would've given me the impression that either of those were in a different class of cards and it was probably more in my best interest to go that route.

They are a different class of cards. I said that in the thread, lol.

So, why would it be in your best interest to go that route?
What makes x16 better than x8 or, in your words, 'a different class'?

Performance is what it is, regardless of the interface or 'class'. But that's the problem sometimes—people's 'impressions' aren't facts. So, blame me all you want, but it's misplaced. Had you been told x8/x16 in the thread, we'd have the same conversation (it doesn't matter), and you'd be asked the same question (what makes x8/x16 relevant at all?).

 

[rainless]

Performance is what it is, regardless of the interface or 'class'. But that's the problem sometimes—people's 'impressions' aren't facts. So, blame me all you want, but it's misplaced. Had you been told x8/x16 in the thread, we'd have the same conversation (it doesn't matter), and you'd be asked the same question (what makes x8/x16 relevant at all?).

Hmm...

Rainless:
As for WHY the PCIe 16 thing would've swayed me one way or the other... It's not JUST the 16x thing... obviously... it's the performance.

I wasn't "blaming" you... The thread is up there for all the world to see... and I was just stating what happened... since someone asked. (Hell... YOU asked. )

Again... putting myself back in the position that I was JUST IN a few months ago: It was a flash sale... ANYTHING would've been enough to sway my position one way or another. I knew... roughly... that the 3070 and 6800XT were more powerful cards. I don't remember anyone throwing around numbers like "bandwidth"... I think you, as-per-usual, threw a percentage at me...

Me-being-me... I know the 16x thing would've clicked with me. (If I've got a motherboard that can do 16x... then BY GOLLIE... I want a card that does 16x! Same with PCIe 5.0... )

And you're right... it is more the PERCEPTION of power than the power itself.

Though in the case of both of those cards (the 6800XT and the 3070) that perception would've been correct. (Not that the 16x MADE the cards more powerful... but they ARE more powerful.)

You also missed the part where I said I had NO REGRETS. The decision was ultimately meaningless (though, having upgraded from my 2060 at all will probably help somewhere down the road.)

I ultimately got a pretty good price selling my 2060 Super... the RTX 4060 looks pretty good in my new case... and, although I can forsee another GPU upgrade very soon... I kinda forsee that for half the people on this site... regardless of what video card they chose last year.

So, meh... Whatever.

 

[Kenrou]

Well, a good point about the 4060 is frame generation, when they get all the kinks worked out it will be faster than the 3070 in games that support it, regardless of 8x or 16x, so you're a tad more "future proofed"

 

[TELmo]

Slots: The length of the slot determines the number of lanes (outward/return) x8 = 8 outward + 8 return.
This is the X16/X8/X4/X1
After that, there's nothing to stop you putting an X1 card in an X4/X8/X16 slot, or an X8 card in an X16 slot.
But you can't make the reverse physically impossible,
(although I've seen X8 slots wired in X4 (or the card, i don't remember)).



The bios can also decide how many channels to use for each slot.
Your example speaks for itself: your card is an X16 running in X8.

Then there's the theoretical maximum speed, which is indicated by the PCI express "version", from 1.0 to 5.0 (today).
Example: I have a PCIe 4.0 x16 card in a PCIe 3.0 slot x16, no problem.

And to come back to the original question, there's not much difference, because it's rare to use so much data.
In your current case: 15.75 GB/s, like me in PCIe 3.0 x16

 

[JLK03F150]

I remember reading old posts of @rainless that you use software which benefits from Cuda cores (video editing or something like that). AMD wasn't an option for you for that reason, even though the RX6800XT is faster @ gaming, it didn't meet your total needs.