HI...

[Kallaide]

Hi everyone, first time poster and well, pretty much a first time member...

I've built PC's since I was a kid helping my dad tear down and rebuild his new 486.

I'm on a new build and was starting to look into Water-cooling, which brought me here. (Super glad it did too, this site is really awesome!)

Anyways, I've already ordered my parts except for the CPU Cooler/Water-cooling parts... After reading a bunch of posts and reading up on my new CPU I think I might be just as well off going with the Corsair H60 for my CPU.

Here is my build list:

Corsair 700D
Cooler Master Silent Pro Gold 1000W
Asus ROG Maximus IV
Intel 2600K
G.SKILL Ripjaws X Series 8GB 1600
EVGA GTX 580 Superclocked (Already own, but may get a second)
OCZ Vertex 2 60GB (Already own, OS/Main App Drive)
WD Caviar Black 600GB (Already own, Secondary Programs Drive)
Synology DS410 w/ 4x WD Caviar Green 2TB (Already own, System Backup and Media Drive for HTPC)

I've read that the new SB are much cooler and run VERY well on air alone when overclocked (I've read up to 4.7 GHz) which is why I'm looking at the newly redesigned H60 from Corsair.

I'd love to do a full liquid cooled setup but am pretty torn up on the cost vs gain. I do plan on using the Maximus to its full potential with Overclocking.

I've never built a Liquid Cooled system, however I have read through a LOT of the posts on here, as well as the stickies.

I'm just finding myself in a pickle as to whether it will be worth the extra money, (which would be a lot I think since I don't half-*** things... )

Well, thanks for listening and any advice will be greatly appreciated!

 

[muddocktor]

Welcome to the forums man!

While I haven't tested the H60 yet, I have tested the H50 and H70 and neither one beats high end air, even the H70. It does have an advantage if you have a narrower case that won't allow installation of a tower style heatsink, but won't be a problem with your case. So basically you can equate the LCLC all-in-one cooling solutions such as the H60 as equal at best to high end air cooling. Not trying to discourage you or anything, but trying to give you the straight facts about those type systems. Now if you do decide to do a custom loop you can get quite a bit better cooling, but you will also be spending way more money to do so too.

So with that said, if you do want to do a custom loop, what is your budget?

 

[Kallaide]

And... there goes that idea...lol

I really want to overclock this baby so I think I want to go with a custom loop.

No more than $1,000 and would preferably like to stay around the $500 mark but would be willing to go above for an AMAZING build... lol

Essentially I'm more worried about quality than price.

Edit... I also wouldn't mind cooling the GPU

 

[Theocnoob]

Yup if you want seriously hardcore water cooling you have to build it yourself. It isn't complicated to water cool the CPU. Pump, reservoir, CPU block, tubing, fittings, radiator, couple of fans. Antimicrobial agents. Adding other things in is as easy as either running that same 'loop' through your GPU etc with more cooling blocks, or making seperate loops, even with their own radiator if you're so inclined/mental. Air coolers have come a long way... if you want to push everything right to the wall though the next best thing to liquid nitrogen or dry ice is water.

Obviously the downside of watercooling is that if you ever want to take anything apart, it's a gigantic pain in the ***. Leaks are highly unlikely if you do a good job with the fittings and are almost guaranteed not to happen. You aren't dealing with very much pressure compared to a high pressure aquarium pump and you're not dealing with the degradation of seals that would occur via biofilm either, due to the antimicrobial agents you add (ie, PT NUKE, or a copper solution, etc), so leaks, on a properly done W/C setup, should not happen.

I just can't be bothered. I have enough issues with pumps etc being in the aquarium hobby

 

[muddocktor]

A cpu only loop won't cost an arm and a leg, but when you start throwing a few heat monsters like that 580 you have presently (and maybe another in the future, from your first post), you will easily start running that bill towards that $1000 mark by the time you are finished. With 2-580 gpu's and the cpu in a loop (or loops), you will need some serious raddage.

With that said, I just ordered a new Asrock mobo for the 2600k I picked up here last month and I plan to put it into a case that has an older waterblock (Swiftech GTZ) that has a Swiftech MCR-220 in the next week when the board comes in, so I should be able to tell you how well a double fan rad handles the heat from a SB by next weekend. I've also got a 875k under water and my 980X under water and I find the 875K to be a pretty hot little beast and I am so over radded on the 980X system it only goes to the low 50's while running Rosetta under BOINC. So I am looking forward to seeing how much cooler the 2600k runs compared to the 875k.

 

[Meathead]

A cpu only loop won't cost an arm and a leg, but when you start throwing a few heat monsters like that 580 you have presently (and maybe another in the future, from your first post), you will easily start running that bill towards that $1000 mark by the time you are finished. With 2-580 gpu's and the cpu in a loop (or loops), you will need some serious raddage.

With that said, I just ordered a new Asrock mobo for the 2600k I picked up here last month and I plan to put it into a case that has an older waterblock (Swiftech GTZ) that has a Swiftech MCR-220 in the next week when the board comes in, so I should be able to tell you how well a double fan rad handles the heat from a SB by next weekend. I've also got a 875k under water and my 980X under water and I find the 875K to be a pretty hot little beast and I am so over radded on the 980X system it only goes to the low 50's while running Rosetta under BOINC. So I am looking forward to seeing how much cooler the 2600k runs compared to the 875k.

my mcr320 holds 2 580's rock solid all day long. 12-20C above ambient with higher than stock voltages and vcore/mem when loading the cards. Shouldn't need too much more to handle all 3. Thats with 6 medium yate loons in push pull

 

[Kallaide]

I look forward to your post on the 2600K!

I think I'll follow along here for a while yet before I make up my mind. From what I've read, the stock fan for the 2600K is pretty good (for a stock fan...)

I'll use that for now, once all my parts arrive. After I've run it for a bit and fiddled around with the temps and OC's then I'll decide what to do.

P.S. Does anyone know when the Cooler Master Turbine Master Fans will be arriving?

 

[muddocktor]

I never heard of that fan until you mentioned it. Just looked it up on the Coolermaster site and it looks interesting, for sure.

 

[Conumdrum]

I look forward to your post on the 2600K!

I think I'll follow along here for a while yet before I make up my mind. From what I've read, the stock fan for the 2600K is pretty good (for a stock fan...)

I'll use that for now, once all my parts arrive. After I've run it for a bit and fiddled around with the temps and OC's then I'll decide what to do.

P.S. Does anyone know when the Cooler Master Turbine Master Fans will be arriving?

Your a smart person. This one line you wrote, "I think I'll follow along here for a while yet before I make up my mind".

That speaks volumes of wisdom. You don't know how much. Let me feed you this link for you to read, as you hang out and watch what others buy and the questions folks have.
http://www.overclockers.com/forums/showpost.php?p=6489396&postcount=3
And an amazing first timer. Few questions, really has his act together.
http://www.overclockers.com/forums/showthread.php?p=6796609#post6796609

 

[muddocktor]

my mcr320 holds 2 580's rock solid all day long. 12-20C above ambient with higher than stock voltages and vcore/mem when loading the cards. Shouldn't need too much more to handle all 3. Thats with 6 medium yate loons in push pull

That's good news to read then. If he does decide to get another 580 and watercool both, a 320 sized rad can handle their heat then. And he could go with a second loop for the cpu so that the 580's don't make his proc run hotter than necessary. The question then will be whether a 220 or 320 sized rad wil be needed for the cpu. From what I've read so far SB doesn't put out nearly the heat of Lynnfield or Neha. I found that my Lynnfield needs the 320 sized rad I have in the loop on that machine to get decent temps, but SB might be more forgiving.

 

[Kallaide]

I've gone over some parts and figured I'd start my list for an eventual WC system. (I say eventual but it's still in the air depending on what I see with the Stock setup.)

I'm still not sure about a Dual Loop though, it would make sense, but I'd like to keep the case as clean and unmodified as possible.

As for the parts I like, here they are:

Radiator: XSPC RX360 V2 w/ 3x Cooler Master Turbine Master 1200RPM Fans
(After reading SkinneeLabs for a few hours I found this to be the right one for the fan speed I'll want to go with.)

CPU Block: Koolance CPU-360 (Change - Koolance CPU-370)
(Again after reading SkinneeLabs and a few other areas, this one just performs great and looks amazing.)

Pump: MCP35X
(The ability to use PWM and have it automatically speed up when playing game will be AWESOME to say the least.)

All other parts I'll need to talk with you guys and see what you like for hosing, fittings and so on

I'd like a front case reservoir just to show off the WC. (No side panel window) Any suggestions on which ones are good?

As for the Dual Loop, if I do get another 580 then it would probably be a must have just for the noise alone.

For the setup, I'd have the three CM Turbines on top of the case pushing in through the Rad. It would then be pushed out the back and the bottom (this being where the second Rad would be; I think...) I say in from top and out bottom because I have two cats that shed a LOT with hardwood floors

Thanks for the links guys and double thanks for the advice! My head hurts a little from all the reading

One more thing... Does anyone know how to set up more fans under PWM? If I do go with the WC setup then I'd want pretty much ALL my Rad fans and Pumps controllable through PWM, but considering there's only so many spots on the Mobo I thought someone might know of a way to add more...

 

[m0r7if3r]

You can do custom controllers or you can split the pwm signal from the mobo to multiple fans...though you may have to boost it.

 

[Kallaide]

Just took a look at the Mobo Connectors and here's what the Maximus says it has:
1 x CPU Fan connector(s)
3 x Chassis Fan connector(s)
1 x Power Fan connector(s)
3 x Optional Fan connector

I've never been to worried about fans and so on until now so I'm not sure if all of these are going to be PWM capable.

 

[Conumdrum]

Try to find more info on the Maximus web page. Dig in. How many of the headers are 4 pin? What does the bios have for controlling them? Possibly not all are PWM or controllable. You also have power concerns. Overamp the header...poof. Most of us put 3 fans on one connector for even fan speeds and less wiring.

Lastly, how are those fans rated for pressure? They might work good in a case, but against the radiator they might push VERY little air. Untill one of the pros does a scientific review in a test setup, I'd be very wary.

The new Koolance res, for looks and ability. Holds your pump right on the res.

 

[Kallaide]

I was looking at that Res, but I couldn't figure out the whole pump part... Does tachometer speed signal mean that it can vary the pump speed and does that really mean anything? I thought it was a cool feature but now that I think about it, it really doesn't make much sense.

I'll look more into the fans and see what the pressure output is. I'll compare fan suggestions from other builds and see what the difference is. I'm optimistic though since the stats I've read place the CFM 12% above normal fan types at 1200RPM (The ones I'd use)

 

[m0r7if3r]

Tach line is RPM monitoring, PWM can control speed.

 

[Kallaide]

Ah, okay.

I've been looking at fan controllers as well but I think I'm gonna stick with speedfan. The fan controllers look cool but I don't care to manually watch them. Does anyone else have their system setup to automatically change the fan speeds based on temp?

 

[Theocnoob]

If I can just play devil's airdvocate, as well as laziness advocate,

A Noctua NH-D14 will keep a 2600K FREEZING cold (not literally but figuratively) far beyond its maximum safe voltage anyways, as will several much cheaper coolers. And GTX 580s overclock to about 1GHZ while still being very well within their safe thermal profile on a decent second party cooler like an MSI Twin Frozr or Direct CUII which can be bought pre-installed for pennies really. To move a GTX 580 or 2600K (and in both cases especially CPU we're talking major diminishing gains here) into the zone where you actually need water cooling would require bypassing the voltage limiter on the GPU and setting a relatively 'mental' voltage on the CPU. Even then it'd still be cool on a good air cooler.

That'll all likely be quite a lot louder than air, but easier to take appart if sh*t should happen. Just so you can weigh X against Y.
Water will be lower temps, quieter, and bad-assed-er though.

 

[Conumdrum]

oc noob is right. You want water these days becuase it's fun and you got money to burn, and you want a quiet, powerful rig. It's the GPUs in SLI that make all the noise these days.

More work, more more more money, and the 50 hrs or so a year for maintenance. Did I say it's fun and a chance of ruining a GPU etc? I ruined a GTX 280 by over tightening my block. In the trash, off to the store for another $400 card. Ahh well. I did say fun right?

 

[Kallaide]

Hahaha...

The wife finally noticed how much I spent... I've been cut off so to speak so I think I'm gonna go with the H60 if it ever comes out... Either that or the Noctua. Gonna have to look into them and check out some comparisons.

Down the road I'll go water but right now I've been cut off...