How to make sure 2TB Western Digital is good for Windows XP + pick the best one

[Audioaficionado]

Based on what I've just read, you don't want to use any old tools to partition with including W2k or XP with the new drives. I have Win7 or Vista already and if I want to do it on a blank installed hard drive prior to installing XP or W2k, GParted live can be used as a bootable CD or USB drive.

What more did you need c6?

 

[c627627]

The question wasn't about installing OS but using an Advanced Format Technology hard drive as a single partition drive under Windows XP for storing files on. Western Digital drives should use jumper pins 7-8 and should be formatted under Windows XP using default NTFS settings.


Other manufacturers do not use pins or software. Should *anything* be done prior to using them as single partition drives for storage accessed by both Win7 & WinXP? Post what & how it should be done. I challenge you and every other person reading this to answer that question as -bill says it was already answered so you shouldn't have any problems doing it.

 

[Audioaficionado]

Take GParted live, boot GParted, create partitions as needed, then later format partition(s) in XP to make it ntfs.

 

[c627627]

See that - bill ↑. Another person confused.

But the point is not whether the posts were clear but to answer the question in a way that most people can get it.

 

[Audioaficionado]

You mistook my shrug for confusion.

I'm not sure - bill is coming back.

Why don't you restate your problems and/or goals again point by point so each one can be addressed.

 

[c627627]

You're suggesting that he wrote volumes of information but went out of his way to actually choose not to post that the answer is to simply use a modern partition program? Think about that.

 

[c627627]

Why don't you restate your problems and/or goals again point by point so each one can be addressed.

Very well sir:

The question is:

To start using a single partition modern hard drive with Advanced Format Technology for backing up files using both Windows 7 and Windows XP on a modern i7 computer system, what should be done?


The simple answer would mention which OS should format it and which specific application (Windows or not) should be used to do anything else to only perform what the question asks.

The goal is to answer that question - which does not ask about FAT or repartitioning the drive later or performing anything else other than simply using a a single partition to back up files under both Win7 & WinXP. Can I at least get that even if it was already answered above?


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He already said to format it under Windows XP, but it is the other part that was not clear to me and I dare say to most other people reading this.

 

[Audioaficionado]

Yeah I got that. It's the partitioning that is critical to NOT do in XP or MS-DOS.

I suggest you restate it Q&A form. Your questions and the responses that answered each question.

I don't think - bill is going to do that for you.

 

[c627627]

All right let's start over: To start using a single partition modern hard drive with Advanced Format Technology for backing up files using both Windows 7 and Windows XP on a modern computer system...


...what should be done after the new drive is detected by Windows XP?

 

[- bill]

You're suggesting that he wrote volumes of information but went out of his way to actually choose not to post that the answer is to simply use a modern partition program? Think about that.

In the immortal words of Al Smith, "Let's look at the record" rather than just accept your faulty understanding of it at face value:

1. Your original question here was "I figure simply formatting them in Windows 7 would take care of them for use under Windows XP, since I have a dual boot. By the way how do you format them with the correct offset in Windows XP?" Now, gparted live is a stand-alone utility, so that's in no way 'format(ing) them with the correct offset in Windows XP'. Any program that you DO run within Windows XP will almost certainly assume that because you're running in that environment you want to use the traditional layout (XP's own disk management certainly does unless you apply a patch to tell it otherwise or fiddle with the command-line utility diskpart) - even if it's a newer partitioning tool that DOES understand the new layouts (though it's possible that such a newer tool would offer you the option to use them). So 'simply use a modern partition program' does not answer the question that you posed here.

2. Nonetheless, my very first post here suggested "Use ONLY Vista/Win7/updated third-party tools (or the patched XP described above) to affect the partition layout on the disk" as one viable option to achieve your goal. I repeated this advice a bit later ("If you partition them with Win7 the alignment should be fine for both systems"). And then again ("If you're happy with never using old-style partitioning utilities (including those in XP Disk Management, unless you patch XP to honor the new layout) to modify the partitions on your disks, just partition the disks using Win7, which should align them optimally (save perhaps for FAT partitions)" with the additional clarification "If you're content to maintain the partitions only using the new partitioning layouts (rather than want to modify them in the older environments), the focus is quite different and the solution is far simpler"). And yet again ("I warned you about mixing use of traditional-style partition layout with the new layout but observed that if you avoided that and used ONLY the new layout then you could simply use Win7 in its default configuration to partition your Advanced Format disks and they'd work just fine for NTFS-formated partitions for earlier Windows systems (though whether Win7 optimizes FAT layout for Advanced Format disks I don't know: even if it does you'd have to format as well as create the FAT partition in Win7)"). And again ("just use only Vista/Win7 and up-to-date third-party utilities to create disk partition layouts from scratch, since they - with the possible exception of FAT partitions - should lay out partitions optimally for ALL systems as long as you never subsequently modify that layout using older tools"). And one final time ("if you won't need to use traditional partitioning tools on an Advanced Format disk and have access to a Win7/Vista system, you can just partition the disk with Win7/Vista in its default configuration and get optimal performance (save perhaps for FAT partitions)").

So the problem was in no way that I 'chose not to post the information' that simply using a modern partitioning program (I usually referred to Win7 because I knew that you already had it available) would handle the situation: the problem was that you, very persistently and repeatedly, despite FIVE different observations that you could use a modern partitioning tool to achieve optimal alignment for XP, and despite multiple entreaties to reread more carefully what had already been written, simply were not listening.

Now you've come back with yet another question about how to partition the disk USING XP ("what should be done after the new drive is detected by Windows XP"). If you really want to do that (despite the fact that you seem to suggest above that using the newer layouts - which entails NEVER using older tools to modify them later - would be an acceptable solution), that information has also been presented. Finding and understanding it might be a worthwhile learning experience for you.

 

[c627627]

Look at this:

So for a dual Win7/WinXP system using Advanced Format drive for backing up files (not OS) onto a single partition, you would recommend:

1. Place jumper on pins 7-8
2. Boot into Windows XP (not Win7) and format


Correct?

That's what I'd do if I were sure I'd never want to use the disk differently from what you describe.

A good parent/teacher/person who wants to help others rises above the fact that others do not have powers of deduction that matches their own. Chastising others for reaching wrong conclusions is counterproductive. What matters is to pin down the question (kind of like Audioaficionado tried to do above) then restate the answer avoiding mentioning anything else that can confuse the person (me) who is unable to deduce the answer due to the overwhelming volume of information.


Alfred Smith saying Let's look at the record in this thread - does so because of his affinity for rhetoric as opposed to getting to the truth.


May I try to explain why I am confused? When we use the term 'partitioning' - I think of that as partitioning the drive into 2 or more partitions. Should it be viewed as 'initializing' the drive no matter how many partitions it has?

I take it that for one single partition, apply pin to WD then simply format in Windows XP. But for two or more partitions, partition and format the drive in Win7 - then do not change the partitions in WinXP later?

 

[- bill]

Chastising others for reaching wrong conclusions is counterproductive.

Perhaps. But chastising others for asking large numbers of questions and then persistently ignoring the answers given - even after having been told multiple times to revisit them - is entirely appropriate (and might even help them learn to pay closer attention to the material they have requested be provided).

What matters is to pin down the question (kind of like Audioaficionado tried to do above) then restate the answer avoiding mentioning anything else that can confuse the person (me) who is unable to deduce the answer due to the overwhelming volume of information.

The volume of information was largely caused by the volume and range of your questions (both expressed and implied):

"how do you format them with the correct offset in Windows XP?"

"I was not aware that formatting offset has nothing to do with WD Advanced Format and that the *only* way to deal with this issue is to use the WDs tool http://www.wdc.com/advformat"

"should the pin be used on 1 partition or not for WinXP"

"should Advanced Format Hard Drive Utility be used for one partition?"

"Why does WD say to apply jumper for 1 partition only"

"Why use pin for one partition and not on more than one partition?"

"Why/why not use Advanced Format Utility on top of the pin for one partition?"

"What is the situation with Seagate, Samsung, Hitachi and Advanced Format?"

And those were just the questions that you asked BEFORE you requested that I get involved in the discussion. Aside from the many additional questions that you added after that point, quite early on you stated "I plan on making detailed step by step instructions on tweaking a 4 year old can follow" and then a bit later "I believe we have established that correctly manually setting them up is the best way to start using modern hard drives with Advanced Format Technology. The purpose of this thread is to post clear and concise steps of doing so", which certainly seemed to indicate that you desired a thorough explanation here of the manual tweaking process.

The bottom line is simple: if you don't want complicated answers, don't ask questions promiscuously but instead confine yourself to the specific situation in which you're interested. It's really not up to the person you're dealing with to stumble around attempting to divine which of your questions are significant to you and which are not.

May I try to explain why I am confused? When we use the term 'partitioning' - I think of that as partitioning the drive into 2 or more partitions. Should it be viewed as 'initializing' the drive no matter how many partitions it has?

Partitioning is the process of creating one or more partitions on a drive. Modern drives do not require any kind of end-user 'initialization' and can be used 'raw' (e.g., by some databases), but normally do require partitioning as a precursor to establishing (formating) a file system. These topics are part of that "even more basic primer about disk layout" that I eventually began to suspect you might need.

 

[c627627]

There is nothing personal about this and I am sorry that time was spent in a way that it was. Yes - you are correct: It is not up to the person I am dealing with to stumble around attempting to define which of my questions are significant to me and which are not. If I could go back - I would do things differently. To that end, may I restate the objective so that we would save time by not discussing topics not directly connected to it as I did agree with you that it was not up to you to define what was important to me.


Objective: Make 1 (one) partition start on the appropriate boundary for use of storing files accessed by both WinXP and Win7 on an Advanced Format Technology drive. Partition type is NTFS on an Intel i7 computer system.


You agreed that for a Western Digital Advanced Format Drive, I should place jumpers on pins 7-8 and boot into Windows XP (not Win7) and format. The drive would then be ready for use as described by the objective. The fact that there are other or better ways to achieve this is not part of the newly defined objective so I ask if you can confirm that the objective would be achieved as described.


There are two remaining questions. I will not make the mistake of asking them both at once. Here is the first one: Identical objective for a Seagate SmartAlign drive. There are no jumper pins.

My options are to boot into WinXP or Win7 and format to achieve the objective. I choose to boot into Windows 7, right click on the newly detected drive and Format it. Would the objective be achieved for the Seagate SmartAlign drive?

 

[- bill]

The answers to both questions (which of course can be found - the second one multiple times - in the preceding discussion) are 'yes'. However, if I were doing this (and did not wish to use the traditional partition layout on both) I'd treat both drives identically so as to avoid the possibility of becoming confused later about how each needed to be treated differently if modifying the partition layout ever became necessary (with the added benefit that you'd be avoiding using the traditional partition layout - which will likely become less and less relevant for most people as time goes by - for one of the disks).

 

[c627627]

Thank you. My second question was going to be about multiple partitions but since I have drives coming today, this one is more important to me before that:

I cannot remember if I booted into Win7 or WinXP when I initially formatted Seagate SmartAlign drives. To be sure, I could boot into Win7 and reformat but to avoid that, my specific and only question presently is how to do the following:

Objective: Determine which OS (WinXP or Win7), SmartAlign drives were formatted under.

Can that be done and if yes, I would be grateful if you posted how as in mentioning which Windows 7 or XP tool would be used and mentioning what exactly would indicated that, remembering that presently there are no other objectives so information pertaining to other objectives should not be mentioned if possible as it will more likely than not confuse me and lead me to make erroneous conclusions.

 

[c627627]

I hope that you could answer the above posted important question for me before reading this and addressing it in a separate post:

The answers to both questions (which of course can be found - the second one multiple times - in the preceding discussion) are 'yes'. However, if I were doing this (and did not wish to use the traditional partition layout on both) I'd treat both drives identically so as to avoid the possibility of becoming confused later about how each needed to be treated differently if modifying the partition layout ever became necessary (with the added benefit that you'd be avoiding using the traditional partition layout - which will likely become less and less relevant for most people as time goes by - for one of the disks).

You see how you said 'The answer to both question is yes?' If you hadn't done that, we would be exactly where we were prior to that post because the quote in turquoise is confusing as heck. If you didn't say that the answer was yes, I would be wondering if the turquoise quote meant:

"No, I would take out the WD pin, boot into Windows 7 and after (any) Advanced Format drives are detected inside Windows 7, right click on them and format them inside Windows 7." I would pause and think and think if that's what you meant and then I would spend time trying to figure out a way to ask you that because I could just see you getting upset over how I reached the wrong conclusion. Did I? Did you mean to say that - that you would prefer if the pin was taken off and then simply format the WD drive inside Win7 just like Seagate SmartAlign drives should be formatted inside Windows 7 and not Windows XP?

 

[- bill]

I cannot remember if I booted into Win7 or WinXP when I initially formatted Seagate SmartAlign drives. To be sure, I could boot into Win7 and reformat but to avoid that, my specific and only question presently is how to do the following:

Objective: Determine which OS (WinXP or Win7), SmartAlign drives were formatted under.

Can that be done and if yes, I would be grateful if you posted how as in mentioning which Windows 7 or XP tool would be used and mentioning what exactly would indicated that

Since you already have EASEUS Partition Master, examine the Partition Info tab of the Properties screen of the partition you created. If you created it normally under XP, its First Physical Sector will be 63 unless the patch I mentioned previously was applied (in which case it should already be suitably aligned for optimal performance). If you created it normally under Win7 it will be something else (I suspect 2048 but don't happen to have a new-format partition at hand to check).

 

[c627627]

Thank you kindly. I believe they are OK for use on both Win7 and WinXP per your instructions:

 

[c627627]

New Objective #1, to clarify the other issue, multiple choice:

Make 1 (one) partition start on the appropriate boundary for use of storing files accessed by both WinXP and Win7 on an Advanced Format Technology drive. Partition type is NTFS on an Intel i7 computer system.


Given *only* two choices, select only one you would use:

A. For a Western Digital Advanced Format Drive, place jumpers on pins 7-8 and boot into Windows XP (not Win7) and format.

B. For a Western Digital Advanced Format Drive, remove jumpers on pins 7-8 and boot into Windows 7 (not WinXP) and format.

 

[- bill]

New Objective #1, to clarify the other issue, multiple choice:

Make 1 (one) partition start on the appropriate boundary for use of storing files accessed by both WinXP and Win7 on an Advanced Format Technology drive. Partition type is NTFS on an Intel i7 computer system.


Given *only* two choices, select only one you would use:

A. For a Western Digital Advanced Format Drive, place jumpers on pins 7-8 and boot into Windows XP (not Win7) and format.

B. For a Western Digital Advanced Format Drive, remove jumpers on pins 7-8 and boot into Windows 7 (not WinXP) and format.

For the stated purpose it doesn't matter, so my own choice would depend upon other considerations (e.g., those I described a couple of posts ago that you claimed were too confusing - though if you're that easily confused, it's not clear that you should be sharing a single disk among multiple systems that differ in their partitioning characteristics at all).