If you are on a domain do you have to acces internet through the server?

[Cytomax]

I am running a medical center and would like to use the power of computers to help make our office more efficient. There are 5 clients and 1 server on a switch. The clients are Win XP Pro (because i just upgraded all the client machines hardware and software) and the server is NT4 (I have the parts to a new server in my house basically an opteron 246 with 1 gig of pc 3200 ram and 2 raptor 32 gig drives in raid 1 with Windows 2003, Standard).
The program that runs the office is DOS based. It works by installing a program in the server and then mapping the drive of the server with the program to all the client computers and then placing shortcuts on the clients desktop to the .exe file on the server.
What i am going to do is disconnect the old server and setup a new server with Win2k3 Standard and connect all the clients the way they were before to the new server. All the clients do so far is run that DOS program and print things. Every now and then we need to access something on the internet which is where our dial up account comes into play. We have all 5 clients and the server all hooked up to 1 phone jack for internet (i know this is crazy but its worked so far). I now see this as a problem simply because we are not going to be able to keep these machines all updated with the latest patches from windows and the latest anti virus updates.
Now what i want to do is use the WSUS program from microsoft to download all the updates to the server and then have the server distribute all those updates to the clients. I also want to have a centralized AntiVirus and download all the updates once and then distribute them to all the clients.
We are also planning on starting a website and selling products through the website. We are not going to be hosting the website so we dont need to worry about that and we are not going to running an email server nor a mySQL server or any other thing. The only time we are ever going to be accessing the internet is for random things that relate to our business such as medical codes and maybe email later in the future that we will not be hosting.

This will sum up what the server will do
- Run that DOS program (in the process of purchasing the windows version)
- Patch clients and Server using WSUS
- Update Centralized AntiVirus
- I am using Active Directory
- The server is also acting as a Domain Controller
- I dont know about using DHCP because i am just going to give all 5 clients a static IP
- I forgot if i have to use DNS or not since im running a domain

My question...

Considering we get broadband how would i setup the network?
Would i go

#1 DSL > Router > Server > Switch > Client Computers

or

#2 DSL > Router > Switch > Server and Client computers

I know for sure in #1 each client wanting to access the internet has to go through the server.

Now if it were setup using #2 where all i did was add a dsl and router to the switch would the clients still access the internet through the server or would the clients just go straight from the switch to the router?

Is there a better way?

Thanks in Advance
Eddie

 

[four4875]

thats a good question.. im not so sure. do you have any MCSE reference material handy? i would think it would be covered in there. my uess is that it would work fine and connect straight through the switch if you put them from modem router switch (could use the routers built in switch and eliminate a piece of hardware)

 

[russ_da_bus]

You would hook a DSL router up to the switch and allow clients to go straight to the internet. Windows Server 2003 doesnt act as a proxy server, you would need a separate ISA server for that.

 

[Cytomax]

Thanks for the reply.. thats the answer i was hoping for you made my day thanks!!
Eddie

 

[Ebola]

You can use 2003 as an ICS server on a 56k. I've done it before. I'm not sure if it has the proxy server builtin.

 

[Flamed_Chip]

Either way should work fine.

 

[Mr.Guvernment]

just go internet - router - does the router not have enough ports?

if so then yes internet ---- router----switch

 

[Cytomax]

Thanks for the responses guys i currently dont have the broadband or the router i was just wondering how i should set it up when i do get it...
Eddie

 

[cw823]

You would hook a DSL router up to the switch and allow clients to go straight to the internet. Windows Server 2003 doesnt act as a proxy server, you would need a separate ISA server for that.

I could be wrong, but I dont' think server will allow you to do that. If you have broadband, your server will hand out IPs, and if setup as a domain controller, I believe it also becomes your DNS server. But hey.....I've been working all day....I could be wrong.

 

[Flamed_Chip]

You can disable the DHCP/DNS functions of either the domain controller or the router. Even if the domain controller is still the DHCP server you can tell it to issue the routers IP as the gateway for clients.

 

[Cytomax]

and i thought this was going to be an easy question... sheesh.. oh well thanks for all the responses guys if anyone still has anything to add to this im all ears...
Eddie

 

[MHamadi]

I'd Use method #2 for simplicity

This would be a piece of cake to setup, There are many ways to set this up but here's a quick method to get it up and running in no time.

MODEM:
Configure your ADSL modem/router - Turn off DHCP, Enable NAT + DNS**

SERVER:
Alter your DHCP setup and make your gateway the IP of the router,,


**DNS alternative:
1. Get you modem to forward DNS queries from lan clients
2. Get your DHCP server to issue the internet dns server IP's directly to clients
3. centralize DNS to your server and change the config or your W2k3 DNS to use ISP's DNS if it cant resolve within itself..


that should get the net up and running on all machines

Btw - Are you wanting ur clients to connect to the server for any particular reason? (filtering, security ?? )

Goodluck

 

[Mr.Guvernment]

forget the server - it makes it complicated - and being on broadband and good named router will do all your NAT and DHCP for you - no reason to set up a router and a server system unless u want some serious firewalling

then just use that server and go modem - server and install some linux firewall on it and ditch the router


WHat i am saying is use either the router, or a server - you dont need both.

 

[Flamed_Chip]

He needs the server, it's the domain controller for the network.

 

[Mr.Guvernment]

OHH - sorry, should of read more thoroughly

 

[elfiena]

cytomax: here are couple things you want to consider...

1) do you want to monitor your employee's internet usage seeing where they go and are they working hard as they say they are?
2) do you want to maximize your server's networking capacity, or you don't mind slowing down on services.
3) do you run web based services (http, ftp, sql, etc etc)
4) would you like to filter / limit network access (filter out inapporiate web content or bad words, filter network traffic for aol IM, yahoo IM, msn IM, IRC etc)

if you are into monitoring your employees or filtering, i would suggest method #1.
if you are running mission critical programs / web services or have utter trust in your employee, go for method #2

because running all data through your server will slow your server down, unless you are very good at configuring QoS, odds are, your server will handle all internal and external network traffic. which will hinder performance. (for example, one employee accessing a 6 gig file on the server while another trying to e-mail a client, the server will lag cats and dogs and e-mail might not go through)

alternatively, if you are not running anything on the server and it just sits there doing nothing other than control who logs in and out, by all means set it between the clients and the dsl... you don't even need a router at that point since your server can double as the router / firewall / filter / sniffer as there are software solutions out there that are cheaper than buying a piece of hardware. note you need a lot of technical know-how to configure your server to run smoothly

if you have questions, feel free to shoot me a pm, i will be your network consultant at no cost... lol

 

[Slackfumasta]

Something to keep in mind is that it would be foolish IMO to put your domain controller on the Internet to act as your router/firewall/proxy/etc.

 

[Cytomax]

First let me start by saying THANK YOU to everyone that has contributed to the thread.

I know i didnt give you guys much information to work with but only because sometimes when you make a post to lengthy some people might not read it but if you make your post to short you dont give enough information for people to help you. Seeing as how so many people are giving very useful and valuable information i will post exactly what i am doing and this might help clarify things.

I am running a medical center and would like to use the power of computers to help make our office more efficient. There are 5 clients and 1 server on a switch. The clients are Win XP Pro (because i just upgraded all the client machines hardware and software) and the server is NT4 (I have the parts to a new server in my house basically an opteron 246 with 1 gig of pc 3200 ram and 2 raptor 32 gig drives in raid 1 with Windows 2003, Standard).
The program that runs the office is DOS based. It works by installing a program in the server and then mapping the drive of the server with the program to all the client computers and then placing shortcuts on the clients desktop to the .exe file on the server.
What i am going to do is disconnect the old server and setup a new server with Win2k3 Standard and connect all the clients the way they were before to the new server. All the clients do so far is run that DOS program and print things. Every now and then we need to access something on the internet which is where our dial up account comes into play. We have all 5 clients and the server all hooked up to 1 phone jack for internet (i know this is crazy but its worked so far). I now see this as a problem simply because we are not going to be able to keep these machines all updated with the latest patches from windows and the latest anti virus updates.
Now what i want to do is use the WSUS program from microsoft to download all the updates to the server and then have the server distribute all those updates to the clients. I also want to have a centralized AntiVirus and download all the updates once and then distribute them to all the clients.
We are also planning on starting a website and selling products through the website. We are not going to be hosting the website so we dont need to worry about that and we are not going to running an email server nor a mySQL server or any other thing. The only time we are ever going to be accessing the internet is for random things that relate to our business such as medical codes and maybe email later in the future that we will not be hosting.

This will sum up what the server will do
- Run that DOS program (in the process of purchasing the windows version)
- Patch clients and Server using WSUS
- Update Centralized AntiVirus
- I am using Active Directory
- The server is also acting as a Domain Controller
- I dont know about using DHCP because i am just going to give all 5 clients a static IP
- I forgot if i have to use DNS or not since im running a domain

I hope this can clarify a lot of things for everyone and im sorry i didnt post it before but like i said i didnt expect this many responses and thanks again for everyones replies.

Thanks in Advance
Eddie

 

[Slackfumasta]

- Run that DOS program (in the process of purchasing the windows version)
- Patch clients and Server using WSUS
- Update Centralized AntiVirus
- I am using Active Directory
- I dont know about using DHCP because i am just going to give all 5 clients a static IP
- I forgot if i have to use DNS or not since im running a domain

WSUS: When you first set it up, do it at home if you have cable/DSL, because it has to download a TON of updates. I mean a TON, as in all the patches released for all the OSes that Microsoft has, from win95/98 on up. Now, I've only used the latest WSUS beta version, not the released version, so the released version may have the option of selecting which OS patches to download. You'll need to use the Group Policy feature in AD to point all of your clients to your WSUS and turn on Automatic Updates; it doesn't have a web interface like Windows Update does.

Centralized Antivirus: I use Symantec Antivirus Corporate edition (look here: http://enterprisesecurity.symantec.com/products/products.cfm?productid=155 ). It's $550 at a minimum, which includes 10 client licenses. Might be a bit more than you need, but it's a nice package for centrally administering your antivirus packages.

 

[Cytomax]

Thanks for the heads up on the WSUS and the recommendation on the AV.
BTW i am still thinking of doing #2 unless anyone has any objection with the new found information that i have presented..
Thanks in Advance
Eddie